Who are tank healers?

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1 Worgen Mage
0
01/22/2012 03:13 PMPosted by Beartay
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=16235/ancestral-healing


How did I miss this.....

Though it stands to reason, my resto shaman are my least played healers.

My bad guys.
Edited by Oldwolfe on 1/22/2012 4:08 PM PST
1 Worgen Mage
0
01/22/2012 04:08 PMPosted by Retà
I dunno man, but it hurts my soul that you did. :(


Most of my attention is spend on my Priest and my Druid, sorry, I guess some things slip through the cracks.

Edit: Typo.
Edited by Oldwolfe on 1/22/2012 4:20 PM PST
90 Tauren Druid
9490
I am a tank healer. Well, not in the traditional sense, because any other healing spec is going to have more "saving power" for a tank in trouble, but I do as much or more healing on the main tank as a "tank healer." Furthermore, one should never grossly oversimplify "tank healer." Is the tank picking up adds? Is there a lot of movement? Does the boss hit like a truck on a 2.2s swing timer? These factors will dictate who will get the job done.

On druids - Blizzard has made sure of this for us by putting a heavy emphasis on keeping lifebloom on a single target, and using nourish, HT, or Regrowth at least every 10s to keep our mastery going. This means that we'll likely spend roughly 20% of our GCD's on the tank, and that is drastically different from WOTLK. Lifebloom and WG have a pretty important role in keeping a tank up too, because they act somewhat like the rhythm section, quick steady small beats that ease the HPS burden on true tank healers so they can use more of heal #2 (Holy Light, Healing Wave, etc.) instead of 1 and 3.

Having things like NS+HT, swiftmend, and treegrowth all instant casts have saved many tanks in my time, during movement. A paladin is a fantastically OP healer right now, but they're still at a huge throughput loss when they have to move. This is why I stopped playing mine way back on Sinestra. Spiritwalker is nice for this reason too.

On our H-spine kill 20% of my healing went to MT (next highest was 12% to OT), and I accounted for 34% of MT's total healing. This was with a disc priest and mastery-resto sham.
7 Blood Elf Rogue
0
01/22/2012 12:15 AMPosted by Practical
I know from priest circles that disc priest as a tank heal is a long running joke and that they aren't really good tank heals.


I don't know what priests you've been talking to, but if they are saying that Disc Priest tanking healing is a joke, it's probably because the way they heal is a joke.
________________________________________________
Healing Forum MVP


Well....the priest I was referring to was a person named Tiduz who was at one time one of the highest parsing healers in the world. I guess the idea behind this opinion of disc priests as poor tank healers was that it was a waste because of the superiority of their raid healing ability. Maybe this just goes to show that as much as people claim "numbers don't matter", they secretly want to be on top and want to take the role that will give them a better chance to do so.

I've read all the posts here and the general gist I get is that anybody can tank heal except holy priest, and that everybody is a good raid healer. I'm definitely in the minority here, but I think I would prefer more defining lines in terms of who was best at what, though it seems that the game is going in the opposite direction.
85 Undead Priest
1040
[snip] other than holy pally, is there any other healer out there that is a natural tank healer?


Every spec and every class can tank heal. Maybe a respec is required for some classses (holy priests) to be better at tank healing, but this goes alone with pally healers who can respec slightly to be better AoE healers. This isnt required, but most tanks dont require more than an afterthought to keep up anyway.

Any class, any spec.
87 Dwarf Priest
11245
Well....the priest I was referring to was a person named Tiduz who was at one time one of the highest parsing healers in the world. I guess the idea behind this opinion of disc priests as poor tank healers was that it was a waste because of the superiority of their raid healing ability.


He may have been talking about the bad old period where disc would use bubbles exclusively and outheal everyone. These days disc is an awful raid healer, as far as HPS.
86 Night Elf Druid
14065



I don't know what priests you've been talking to, but if they are saying that Disc Priest tanking healing is a joke, it's probably because the way they heal is a joke.
________________________________________________
Healing Forum MVP


Well....the priest I was referring to was a person named Tiduz who was at one time one of the highest parsing healers in the world. I guess the idea behind this opinion of disc priests as poor tank healers was that it was a waste because of the superiority of their raid healing ability. Maybe this just goes to show that as much as people claim "numbers don't matter", they secretly want to be on top and want to take the role that will give them a better chance to do so.

I've read all the posts here and the general gist I get is that anybody can tank heal except holy priest, and that everybody is a good raid healer. I'm definitely in the minority here, but I think I would prefer more defining lines in terms of who was best at what, though it seems that the game is going in the opposite direction.


What Tiduz doesn't know is that paladins are the primary raid healers now. The game has changed a lot in two tiers in terms of healing.
Edited by Shelendil on 1/25/2012 12:16 PM PST
1 Worgen Mage
0
01/25/2012 09:39 AMPosted by Maharal
Well....the priest I was referring to was a person named Tiduz who was at one time one of the highest parsing healers in the world. I guess the idea behind this opinion of disc priests as poor tank healers was that it was a waste because of the superiority of their raid healing ability.


He may have been talking about the bad old period where disc would use bubbles exclusively and outheal everyone. These days disc is an awful raid healer, as far as HPS.


WHAT???

DA when properly used is one of THE strongest raid healing abilities/spells currently in the game right now....honestly, I don't have HPS issues at all on my priest, frequently doing 25k+ easily on a heroic raid.
87 Dwarf Priest
11245



He may have been talking about the bad old period where disc would use bubbles exclusively and outheal everyone. These days disc is an awful raid healer, as far as HPS.


WHAT???

DA when properly used is one of THE strongest raid healing abilities/spells currently in the game right now....honestly, I don't have HPS issues at all on my priest, frequently doing 25k+ easily on a heroic raid.


Healing performance is relative. Disc HPS is worse raid healing wise than druid, holy priest, holy paladin, and shaman (on stack fights). So... worse than all the other healing specs. Disc is great at saving lives though, and for that reason they remain useful.
Edited by Maharal on 1/25/2012 12:59 PM PST
1 Worgen Mage
0
Healing performance is relative. Disc HPS is worse raid healing wise than druid, holy priest, holy paladin, and shaman (on stack fights). So... worse than all the other healing specs. Disc is great at saving lives though, and for that reason they remain useful.


Yes healing performance is relative...to boss mechanics and raid skill, not class, not in the way you are suggesting.

Disc PoH spam is probably the strongest AoE healing option available right now, and when used to stack up DA Before damage, nothing, Nothing beats it. Even on stack fights, a properly used PoH for disc means Less damage for the other healers to heal, even on stack fights.
87 Dwarf Priest
11245
Yes healing performance is relative...to boss mechanics and raid skill, not class, not in the way you are suggesting.

Disc PoH spam is probably the strongest AoE healing option available right now, and when used to stack up DA Before damage, nothing, Nothing beats it. Even on stack fights, a properly used PoH for disc means


You are spectacularly wrong. Max HPS of a disc priest, like max HPS of any healer, is set by talents and class mechanics (assuming you are skilled enough to press the right buttons). It just so happens that right now every other healer outputs more AoE HPS than a disc priest. Disc priests can still raid heal, and generally it's not a problem, but the reason they are brought isn't for their AoE HPS.

As an example, when I attempted H Zon'ozz 10, I simply couldn't keep up in the last phase as disc, so I had to go holy for more oomph.

Note: for most people these sorts of issues aren't relevant because most people bring too many healers and do content that's too easy. Also most people are mislead into thinking disc is a very good aoe healer because aegis snipes heals from hots and direct heals. Don't be fooled: once damage ramps up, disc falls behind.
Edited by Maharal on 1/25/2012 1:15 PM PST
85 Undead Priest
14925
You are spectacularly wrong. Max HPS of a disc priest, like max HPS of any healer, is set by talents and class mechanics (assuming you are skilled enough to press the right buttons). It just so happens that right now every other healer outputs more AoE HPS than a disc priest. Disc priests can still raid heal, and generally it's not a problem, but the reason they are brought isn't for their AoE HPS.

As an example, when I attempted H Zon'ozz 10, I simply couldn't keep up in the last phase as disc, so I had to go holy for more oomph.

Note: for most people these sorts of issues aren't relevant because most people bring too many healers and do content that's too easy. Also most people are mislead into thinking disc is a very good aoe healer because aegis snipes heals from hots and direct heals. Don't be fooled: once damage ramps up, disc falls behind.

I disagree. I think in terms of Raw theoretical max HPS yes a disc priest falls behind other healers, but thats because disc priests have dmg reduction cooldowns that don't get counted as healing. If a holy paladin pops all his CDs and hits 100k HPS, a disc priest with PW:B would only have to hit 70k on account of PW:B (which is well within the realm of a disc priests maximum hps).
Look at the bigger picture, there are variances in AoE HPS of different healing classes, but Disc priests are certainly not the bottom of that barrel.
87 Dwarf Priest
11245
I disagree. I think in terms of Raw theoretical max HPS yes a disc priest falls behind other healers, but thats because disc priests have dmg reduction cooldowns that don't get counted as healing.


I don't think you disagree :). For example I agree with your quote. Disc is certainly not a bad healer, it's just that max HPS isn't what they are good at. I heal H Yor'sahj, H Morchok, and H Ultraxion as disc, but in each of those cases the reason isn't because of disc's aoe healing power.
Edited by Maharal on 1/25/2012 1:41 PM PST
85 Human Paladin
9085
One of the biggest problems with discipline aoe throughput is that it doesn't scale at all from 10->25 mans (although barrier is still awesome, of course).
85 Undead Priest
14925
You stated that disc's max HPS was significantly lower than other healers. If you're taking into account things like damage reduction cooldowns, then they're really on par, thats all im saying. Honestly, disc AoE healing ability is just as good as, if not better than some other AoE healers because of their ability to drastically reduce damage taken.
85 Undead Priest
6130

Well....the priest I was referring to was a person named Tiduz who was at one time one of the highest parsing healers in the world. I guess the idea behind this opinion of disc priests as poor tank healers was that it was a waste because of the superiority of their raid healing ability. Maybe this just goes to show that as much as people claim "numbers don't matter", they secretly want to be on top and want to take the role that will give them a better chance to do so.

I've read all the posts here and the general gist I get is that anybody can tank heal except holy priest, and that everybody is a good raid healer. I'm definitely in the minority here, but I think I would prefer more defining lines in terms of who was best at what, though it seems that the game is going in the opposite direction.


1) I think pretty much any healer will do higher throughput AoE than tank healing, so this is not unique to disc

2) I don't think holy priest is an exception anymore now that Holy Word: Serenity is no longer broken. In a world where Serenity was broken and crit heals were 150%, yes, holy priest way bad. Now that Serenity is fixed, the 4 piece makes the cooldown shorter than the duration so it's 100% uptime and crits are 200%? Holy should be fine on tank healing now. Sure they do more throughput on AoE heals, but so does everyone else.
87 Dwarf Priest
11245
You stated that disc's max HPS was significantly lower than other healers. If you're taking into account things like damage reduction cooldowns, then they're really on par, thats all im saying. Honestly, disc AoE healing ability is just as good as, if not better than some other AoE healers because of their ability to drastically reduce damage taken.


If you are taking into account fights where aura mastery is relevant, then disc is way behind paladins. Barrier is a lot weaker on 10. On the best possible case for barrier (domo normal 25), barrier can definitely mitigate a million or two. Usually it's not enough to change the overall hps equation. But then, disc is valuable for things unrelated to hps. It's the best spec for saving lives.
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