Please bring back whoever designed Ulduar

85 Worgen Hunter
5515
DESTROY ALL THE MECHANICAL DEFENSES! WHOO!
90 Worgen Mage
9130
As far as vehicle fights go, as someone mentioned earlier, FL was awesome...especially the hardmode.

The thing that I liked most about Ulduar is that the tuning was wonderful from a progression standpoint (other than the bugged encounters, but Blizz gets a pass on this). What I mean by that was that there was a smooth difficulty ramp up from the first normal boss all the way to 0 Light Yogg. On top of that you had a massive, lore-filled, immersive raid with interesting boss encounters and generally awesome hard mode strategies.

With LFR in place you can now do this sort of raid. With MoP, I think it would be a great idea to continue with the small/multiple raid to open things up and then hit us with a masterpiece like Ulduar. This would require that you don't rush MoP release and have the 2nd patch with this raid hit 3-4 months after release.

I would likely consider actually subscribing for MoP if I knew that something like this would occur. But at the rate things are going now with the craptastic quality of Dragon Soul and the generally negative tone from devs toward those in my playstyle segment, I have literally no interest continuing my subscription past heroic madness. And this is coming from someone who hasn't let their subscription lapse in over 5 years and has enjoyed the game immensely up until the last few months.
29 Tauren Druid
300
As far as vehicle fights go, as someone mentioned earlier, FL was awesome...especially the hardmode.

The thing that I liked most about Ulduar is that the tuning was wonderful from a progression standpoint (other than the bugged encounters, but Blizz gets a pass on this). What I mean by that was that there was a smooth difficulty ramp up from the first normal boss all the way to 0 Light Yogg. On top of that you had a massive, lore-filled, immersive raid with interesting boss encounters and generally awesome hard mode strategies.

With LFR in place you can now do this sort of raid. With MoP, I think it would be a great idea to continue with the small/multiple raid to open things up and then hit us with a masterpiece like Ulduar. This would require that you don't rush MoP release and have the 2nd patch with this raid hit 3-4 months after release.

I would likely consider actually subscribing for MoP if I knew that something like this would occur. But at the rate things are going now with the craptastic quality of Dragon Soul and the generally negative tone from devs toward those in my playstyle segment, I have literally no interest continuing my subscription past heroic madness. And this is coming from someone who hasn't let their subscription lapse in over 5 years and has enjoyed the game immensely up until the last few months.
As much as I hope that it's true, in MoP, I just don't see there being a raid on the same quality level of Ulduar. In my opinion, I think blizz are going to rush MoP out sooner than they should, and quality will suffer because of it.
90 Draenei Shaman
15000
01/26/2012 05:21 PMPosted by Layuth
You are not losing subscriptions because people "do not see" the content. You are losing subscriptions because what people " do see" is not up to par.


^^^^^^^^.
90 Worgen Warlock
17325
But at the rate things are going now with the craptastic quality of Dragon Soul and the generally negative tone from devs toward those in my playstyle segment, I have literally no interest continuing my subscription past heroic madness. And this is coming from someone who hasn't let their subscription lapse in over 5 years and has enjoyed the game immensely up until the last few months.
Pretty much how I feel.

Each raid tier needs to be long and immersive, and really should not be cleared by anyone on week one.. not even LFR. Making the game last for a week or two after a content patch is a GREAT way to make people bored as hell and want to quit.

As I've said elsewhere, tier 11 was excellent. Not perfect, probably a little on the hard side (especially normal modes) but the boss count, the boss mechanics (mostly) and the locales were great. Tier12 would've been great if it included another raid zone with 3-5 bosses, or Firelands had 3-5 more bosses in it. Dragon Soul is a steaming pile, and for probably the first time ever with a Blizzard game I feel seriously ripped off after how the 2nd half of this expansion has played out.
Edited by Turiyaa on 1/27/2012 12:06 AM PST
90 Blood Elf Death Knight
11355
100 x Infinity agree with this topic.
90 Gnome Warrior
8535
01/25/2012 04:05 PMPosted by Arianenna
I am steadily getting burnt out by the same ol' same ol' of the raiding design that started with the atrocity which was ToC.
I loved Ulduar as much as the next gnome, but can we please not demonize ToC? I actually like the whole concept of the raid. Sure, the fact that there was no hard mode triggers blows, but the instance itself was not an attrocity.

Tier12 would've been great if it included another raid zone with 3-5 bosses, or Firelands had 3-5 more bosses in it. Dragon Soul is a steaming pile, and for probably the first time ever with a Blizzard game I feel seriously ripped off after how the 2nd half of this expansion has played out.
You're surprised things turned out like they did when it was pretty obvious that they dropped a raiding tier (Abyssal Maw) and decided to cut their loses thanks to Cataclysm's overall negative reception?
Edited by Agrina on 1/27/2012 12:09 AM PST
55 Gnome Death Knight
90
01/26/2012 12:11 PMPosted by Kaivax
We think Mimiron would feel less special if there were six more bosses in the game with big red buttons, and we’re just not sure the design space is there to have a near infinite variety of means by which players launch a heroic mode in game.


As "special" as LFR or even heroic DS feels?

Oh, boy! I can't wait for MoP if Blizzard's new standard for raiding is DS, instead of that 'crap' that was Ulduar!

They, finally, listened to us... and we've all been asking for content like 4.3, apparently.

01/27/2012 12:06 AMPosted by Agrina
I loved Ulduar as much as the next gnome, but can we please not demonize ToC? I actually like the whole concept of the raid. Sure, the fact that there was no hard mode triggers blows, but the instance itself was not an attrocity.


I, think, you may just be in the 'minority,' on this one...
Edited by Cloggy on 1/27/2012 12:14 AM PST
30 Tauren Warrior
0
Has Blizzard announced any more info on the raid content in MoP besides the Mogu'Shan Palace? I think I remember reading that there will be 3 raids available at release.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Mogu%27Shan_Palace

From the dungeon layout it looks like it's going to be another quick "hallway" raid. Hopefully the fights themselves will be intuitive and difficult, though isn't there a quote from someone at Blizz that they want the difficulties of future raids to be along the lines of the fights in Dragon Soul?
90 Undead Death Knight
9985
Never liked Ulduar... Felt tedious... No I didn't like ToC either...
90 Orc Warrior
11125
The only explanation that makes sense to me is that their staff is stretched too thin to put out that kind of content anymore. Blizzard employees are incredibly talented and are notorious for creating excellent games, but I would be genuinely embarrassed to have to take credit for the slow release of so few encounters of such comparatively poor quality that we've seen in tiers 12 and, to a greater extent, 13. I do think that they did a wonderful job with questing (despite there not being enough of it from 80-85), the introductory 5-man heroics, and T11, but other than heroic Ragnaros the PVE content since then has been an absolute waste of my time and money.
Edited by Skru on 1/27/2012 1:14 AM PST
85 Goblin Shaman
VEX
9055
01/26/2012 12:11 PMPosted by Kaivax
Long raids mean longer development time, and while some players might be willing to wait, we understand why others might get impatient.


This is what I have to point out. Ulduar was a way longer instance than Dragon Soul yet Patch 3.0 to 3.1 (When Ulduar came out) took 6 months whereas Patch 4.2 to 4.3 took 5 months to come out. Granted I don't know if this is because the patch was already in the works before Wrath was released but still. Not only that you can really see the difference of design quality when comparing Ulduar to Dragon Soul. Ulduar felt inspired, Dragon Soul feels lazy and that even though it uses places that are already implemented in the game, it doesn't have unique boss models aside from Deathwing. Almost every boss in Ulduar has a unique model.

Regardless, I really would like to see Ulduar mechanics in future raids. I don't want a button that swaps hard mode on and off, I want something that I have to do in that raid or boss fight that activates hard mode, this way it feels a lot more engaging and epic. And please put some more thought into art design in future expansions, especially for raids. I should have a unique feeling going into each raid and the majority of bosses should have unique models.
85 Dwarf Warrior
6210
the good old days of getting the best raiders on your server and pugging Ulduar 10man and clearing it in 1 night that was epic
Ulduar is super fun to do now but I can't imagine clearing that place in a week without being super OP for the raid. It's just simply toooooo long. But the fights in general are way more fun, in my opinion.
87 Gnome Warrior
12225
Kaivax, one of the most interesting idea of Ulduar was the loot system.. hard mode was dropping extra loot was a more interesting than dropping heroic version of the regular gear imo. Unique gear is more interesting than upgraded version of the loot you already have.. might as well only drop Crystalized Firestone.

Not counting the 4 levels of difficulty of some encounters, which was very fun especially for Obsidium Sanctum and Freya.


Agree with this. Have Heroic Mode loot work like it did in Ulduar. Doing a boss on Heroic would not completely replace his loot table, instead he'd drop normal mode loot + an additional piece of higher ilvl loot that's unique instead of just being a normal mode item with the word "Heroic" on it.
85 Undead Warrior
4565
01/25/2012 04:11 PMPosted by Nyzul
They also need to make raids that don't need nerfing. Can't recall if Ulduar even had nerfs. Prob did but I can't recall them.


Are you joking? Ulduar was nerfed into the ground. Particularly Mimiron because most guilds couldn't get past him.

Hell, even Leviathan was nerfed into the ground because believe it or not, a lot guilds couldn't get past him either.

But I agree with the OP -- Bring more raids back like Ulduar. It was by far one of the most well designed raids ever. I had such a great time there, but nothing beats Karazhan or Black Temple.
Edited by Randomherõ on 1/27/2012 1:20 AM PST
85 Undead Warrior
4565
01/27/2012 01:05 AMPosted by Vilkas
Ulduar is super fun to do now but I can't imagine clearing that place in a week without being super OP for the raid. It's just simply toooooo long. But the fights in general are way more fun, in my opinion.

It really wasn't that long. A good guild could clear it in a night -- my guild during LK would clear it in 3-4 hours tops. Granted while learning the fights it took a little longer, but we had it on farm pretty quickly and were on Yogg within the first week of Ulduar being released.

One thing I sorely miss in this game are competent players.
Edited by Randomherõ on 1/27/2012 1:23 AM PST
90 Tauren Shaman
12525
Its Tigole

Bring Tigole back please, after he leaves to "titan"project" the raids never been the same. Bring him back please. And stop making things "very easy".

Try to understand:

When I play Portal 2 and finish a level I feel "smart" because theres a challenge and many people are unable to solve.

When I play wow (if I play) im feel like a "moron" because everyone can do it now and theres no challenge because you want everyone kill DW. Its ridiculous.

90 Worgen Hunter
0
01/25/2012 04:19 PMPosted by Arianenna
Ulduar is a good raid to emulate and look at, but not something that long... Anything over 8ish in one raid is too much.

Wow...

The fact that having a raid with more than 8 bosses would be considered "too much" shows the sad state this game has become :(


Why go all in one? Easier to just split it into parts. Saves time and makes it less of a hassel.
90 Pandaren Rogue
5815
The 2 times I ever did most of Ulduar were the best.

Yoggy Bear was great even if we died, 5 times.
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