Please bring back whoever designed Ulduar

85 Human Paladin
7095
01/25/2012 06:20 PMPosted by Jessebella
Why do we discuss this? Blizz knows everyone loved Ulduar. If they wanted to make another Ulduar again, they would have.


Blizzard changed the design teams and changed their game goals because in Cata they tried to return to a certain level of difficulty that they had at the early stages of Wrath and in BC and lost subs. They then changed it again to hopefully bring those subs back and lost more. They have now gone with the idea of creating a game for a more "casual" player who has less time than players did back in BC/Wrath.

Not all raiders like it and that is why this thread exists.

01/25/2012 06:21 PMPosted by Millsa
So you agree with the goals being different then?


See above.

I'm sure there is some overlap. It's not like they never see each-other and communicate ideas and plans.

And if they are entirely 100% separate, then why does it seem like less raids were created for Cata than any other expansion? And OP is clearly not happy with the quality so the quality over quantity argument is debatable. My only idea is that 1-60 in some way took away from end game.


There is a minor amount of overlap in that they are all on the design team. However raid designs is a different section of the design team than revamping 1-60. There isn't "less" raid content there are just less bosses and less interesting/fun raids. Why? Well the design teams are different than they were in BC/Pre-ToC Wrath and Blizzard's game goals are different than they were then.
85 Draenei Death Knight
3280
01/25/2012 06:22 PMPosted by Ephridel
got 5 less levels of content


The way a blue and some others explained it, We got 5 bless levels, but 10 levels of content.

Basically I read that it took the same amount of time to go from 80-85 as it would to go from 60-70 or 70-80.
90 Orc Death Knight
13615
getting 80-85 was much faster than 70-80 was originally.
Edited by Brogression on 1/25/2012 6:33 PM PST
90 Worgen Warrior
7800
Blizzard changed the design teams and changed their game goals because in Cata they tried to return to a certain level of difficulty that they had at the early stages of Wrath and in BC and lost subs. They then changed it again to hopefully bring those subs back and lost more. They have now gone with the idea of creating a game for a more "casual" player who has less time than players did back in BC/Wrath.

Not all raiders like it and that is why this thread exists.

But Ulduar isn't a question of difficulty. Its a question of time and money to spend. That's the only reason I could imagine they haven't pursued such a design again. No matter who they have working for them now.

And I don't bite the "casual" thing. End of Wrath was pretty damn lenient. Now a days it look like there trying to move into a system where they get to cover all their bases. Normal modes are still tough-ish, and heroic modes have all the gruff for the people who want a challenge.
85 Human Paladin
7095
But Ulduar isn't a question of difficulty. Its a question of time and money to spend. That's the only reason I could imagine they haven't pursued such a design again. No matter who they have working for them now.

And I don't bite the "casual" thing. End of Wrath was pretty damn lenient. Now a days it look like there trying to move into a system where they get to cover all their bases. Normal modes are still tough-ish, and heroic modes have all the gruff for the people who want a challenge.


You are wrong about how long Ulduar took and the amount of money went into it but I will let that go as I move on to your second paragraph.

Blizzard execs have been quoted by several news articles of late discussing their new direction for the game and way games like SWTOR aren't going to force WoW to do anything or challenge WoW in anyway.

Pandaria already has the hallmarks that raiding is about to get even easier than it already is.
90 Worgen Warrior
7800
01/25/2012 06:38 PMPosted by Ashok
You are wrong about how long Ulduar took and the amount of money went into it but I will let that go as I move on to your second paragraph.

I wont take no on this without facts and figures.

Blizzard execs have been quoted by several news articles of late discussing their new direction for the game and way games like SWTOR aren't going to force WoW to do anything or challenge WoW in anyway.

Pandaria already has the hallmarks that raiding is about to get even easier than it already is.

By easier, do you mean less pep-work? Because apparently progression in DS hasn't been stellar. Its doesn't sound like raiding has gotten too easy.
85 Human Paladin
7095
01/25/2012 06:41 PMPosted by Jessebella
By easier, do you mean less pep-work? Because apparently progression in DS hasn't been stellar. Its doesn't sound like raiding has gotten too easy


Progression in DS has been the fastest ever seen. Majority of guilds downed normal modes 8/8 in the first week of the content being out. Some have stalled on heroic modes but that's because it was the holidays. Now those guilds are pushing through the heroic modes like they are nothing. And the nerf has yet to hit.

So DS is weak compared to other raids.
85 Night Elf Death Knight
6885
01/25/2012 06:45 PMPosted by Ashok
By easier, do you mean less pep-work? Because apparently progression in DS hasn't been stellar. Its doesn't sound like raiding has gotten too easy


Progression in DS has been the fastest ever seen. Majority of guilds downed normal modes 8/8 in the first week of the content being out. Some have stalled on heroic modes but that's because it was the holidays. Now those guilds are pushing through the heroic modes like they are nothing. And the nerf has yet to hit.

So DS is weak compared to other raids.


I guess that means when the nerf hits, it won't matter anyway since it's so easy, most people would've completed heroic mode by then.
90 Worgen Warrior
7800
Progression in DS has been the fastest ever seen. Majority of guilds downed normal modes 8/8 in the first week of the content being out. Some have stalled on heroic modes but that's because it was the holidays. Now those guilds are pushing through the heroic modes like they are nothing. And the nerf has yet to hit.

So DS is weak compared to other raids.

Then whats with the Blue Post Explicitly stating not enough people have beaten DS?
85 Human Paladin
7095
Progression in DS has been the fastest ever seen. Majority of guilds downed normal modes 8/8 in the first week of the content being out. Some have stalled on heroic modes but that's because it was the holidays. Now those guilds are pushing through the heroic modes like they are nothing. And the nerf has yet to hit.

So DS is weak compared to other raids.


Then whats with the Blue Post Explicitly stating not enough people have beaten DS?


Them being silly and not realizing that its the holidays and a lot of guilds had a vacation period.
90 Worgen Warrior
7800
01/25/2012 07:13 PMPosted by Ashok
Them being silly and not realizing that its the holidays and a lot of guilds had a vacation period.

Then we'll see what in the coming months what would have been the right decision.
Edited by Jessebella on 1/25/2012 7:17 PM PST
90 Dwarf Shaman
11015
Blizzard would rather rehash old zones/raids and spew recolored epics on the masses.
85 Undead Warrior
10795
Wasn't this the raid everyone hated on for the entirety of Wrath?

Why does everyone now have a sudden change in opinion?

Edit: Or was it ToC?

That was ToC. Ulduar had an overwhelming positive reception throughout Wrath.

The atmosphere, the fights, the methods of activating hardmodes - everything was just so spot on. There's a reason so many list it as the best raid Blizzard has ever made.
90 Human Warrior
16790
01/25/2012 07:09 PMPosted by Jessebella
Then whats with the Blue Post Explicitly stating not enough people have beaten DS?


That blue post means jack until they give us some context to those numbers.

For all we know they're looking at players that finished LFR and stopped subbing because they saw Deathwing die. Then those numbers are probably low because *Spoiler Alert* a lot of players who finished LFR have zero interest in raiding Normals or Heroics.

From the tone of their posts it seems like they believe everyone wants to keep progressing from difficulty to difficulty and should be able to easily when that's clearly not the case. Just because I enjoy Arenaing every once in a while doesn't mean I want to push to Gladiator.

Who's not progressing? PvPers? Dungeoners? RPers? Questers? Some other category of people that have absolutely zero interest in raiding? Some definition would be nice.

90 Undead Rogue
9775
ahh man i wish... Ulduar was boss, I actually didn't get to spend much time in there, cause at the time I was pvping pretty heavy, but man, when I went in there to heal, it sure was awesome....

also, I agree with the whole "take down towers to remove hard mode, don't burn heart to remove hard mode etc, it was all pretty awesome compared to nowdays....
90 Orc Warrior
14575
Ulduar was and still is the best raid instance ever created by Blizzard.
88 Night Elf Druid
5205
It was to long.
90 Undead Hunter
7945
Ulduar was great but it will be a nightmare for LFR.
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