The Ironman Challenge III

This looks really interesting! I may consider this after I finish leveling my mage to 85 that way all the slots in my current realm are full. That way I re-roll on a new realm with no temptation.
85 Gnome Rogue
2095
Thank you for the non-inflammatory post Neverdied.
Please don't take it the wrong way because I am not at all trying to stir controversy. I see you are granting leniency...

What happens if someone dies to comcast or power going down or lag etc...will you be lenient? In a real competition you make a mistake and you are out. If you are not going to enforce your own rules because "its the first infraction" then it is not really a challenge but simply a game.

I would encourage that person to withdraw from the competition. Death is the most important rule in the challenge.

I believe you have strict rules for a reason. I worry that if you start being lenient then the people who will get to 85 without having made mistakes will feel cheated. On the other end I understand you don t want to alienate people and discourage them since permadeather are rare.

This is the crux of the issue. I don't know how many people you have doing Permadeath but I like the fact that there are quite a few people doing The Ironman Challenge and it continues to attract new people. I want that to continue.

I hope if/when someone reaches 85 they won't feel cheated because they did it without mistakes. I certainly won't feel that it diminishes my achievement if I did it without mistakes even after granting leniency to Ironic and Ironbrit.

If you are taking part in the challenge perhaps you could elaborate on this further?

Also is the challenge a race to first or will you have a set number of winners per class or race or is it more for a "personal achievement" to have made it to the top and anybody can join at any time?

It's a personal achievement. If you make it to 85 with a Draenei Hunter after 10 other people have made it to 85 as a Draenei Hunter that's still an accomplishment.
25 Human Warlock
120
***To: Aberzombie***

<--am in the challenge :)
---------------------------

Journal:
after waking to find the ship we were on a total wreak I spent some time getting acclimated to this new planet. Having been forced to fight for others entertainment during our enslavement I was encouraged to serve in Freedom as a warrior. I like it.
I quickly got my hooves under me around the Exodar and the few makeshift towns on the island we crashed into.

I have to explore this new land. In order to see as much of this world as I can I have hooked up with the Alliance forces around the Human center they call Stormwind.
I helped bring in a creature they call "Hogger". He was kind of weak and whinny but I hear he used to really be something, supposedly he gave people nightmares. He may be a shell of what he once was but that shell is in the stockade now.

The Alliance Command asked me to help in Westfall for a time.
such poverty there! I did as much as I could to aid those people while completing my assignments.

I'm now in Redridge, (The land is so beautiful that while staring at it I almost walked right off a towers edge! I'll have to pay attention if I'm going to survive!)

I don't keep a journal well but I'm told the Profit may want a record of my travels here so I'll try to keep some notes. we'll see the next few weeks bring.


(((
I do use self made macro's of the /<spell command> variety. If that is a problem. let me know now so I can start a new guy before I put too much more work into this one.

Also; Somebody mentioned 'Facebook'... Please Don't!
If you move this off the forums to some other social program site then sadly I'm out.
I am a firm believer in the adage; "Friends don't let friends Facebook" or twitter or any other of that sort of thing. It is great, and add-ware safe, here.

FYI: There is a quest in Westfall that requires you to drink an invisibility potion to go into a tower and spy on some NPC. I always turn it down but I thought I'd let you folks know its there.
To Jani and the others who brought this challenge to us, and back to us, Thanks! I'm having a blast :) !
)))


On the macro thing: I hope not, since I do the same thing(mostly to control my demons).

On the Westfall quest: that potion does not show up on an armory, and since it is part of a quest(meaning you HAVE to use it to complete the quest) I see no problem with it. How do I know it doesn't show? Well, I did that quest on mikey here, and it still shows no potions consumed in my stats.

Ironmikey, lvl 30 Warlock
Wyrmrest Accord(Ally) - /join iron to chat!
85 Gnome Rogue
2095
I do use self made macro's of the /<spell command> variety. If that is a problem. let me know

Macros are not a problem.

So no potions or even food that you've looted? Just first aid to recover? What about drinks to restore mana?

First Aid is allowed
Food & Drink is allowed so long is it does not grant a buff

Potions are NOT allowed (unless they are quest items)
Edited by Selenagnomez on 1/26/2012 12:55 PM PST
25 Human Warlock
120
I think spirit of the Ironman should have people remove themselves for a transgression. If only because of those that haven't. I'll be starting my char when I get home from work, and if I do something, the character will be deleted immidiately, because that's what the rules say.

What makes this a challenge is the rules, if you don't follow the rules, you lose the challenge. Those that have had a slip shouldn't ask for forgiveness, but rather press on by the code you have sworn to. Erase the character, and chose whether or not to start again. If you don't want to erase your character, feel free to continue on, but please remove yourself for the leader board, for you can only lead by the example you set.

However contradictory it may seem (having just supported leniency), I think this is an admirable attitude.

I too plan to delete my characters (or retire them) in the event of accidental consumable usage or d/c deaths. I want my statistics page to be pure if/when I hit 85.

I still will support participants who request leniency (perhaps a confusing stance), but I thank you for posting this and I personally will abide by it.


I also share this opinion, so I'll just quote it instead of retyping it.
85 Gnome Rogue
2095
01/26/2012 12:37 PMPosted by Ironmikey
On the Westfall quest: that potion does not show up on an armory, and since it is part of a quest(meaning you HAVE to use it to complete the quest)

This is my understand as well. I wish there were an easier way to convey the intention of the "spirit" without all these rules but it's not that simple. I'll see if I can reword the potions rule.
85 Gnome Rogue
2095
The potions and elixirs rules have been changed to better reflect their intentions.
14 Dwarf Hunter
30
I John "The Iron Man" Winterfeather accept this challenge. I have already dealt with the Trolls and Troggs in Coldridge Valley. I will post my progress as soon as I can.
85 Draenei Mage
500
One more thing you should watch out for as I have had cheaters in our guilds before.

Watch the killing blows as well. Many people dual box or have friends not grouping but finishing their kills for them. They just tag a mob with an instant damage. It makes grinding super fast just like what Athene did on cata release...and dual boxing with a priest following you is cake.
85 Gnome Rogue
2095
01/26/2012 12:45 PMPosted by Ironmàn
I John "The Iron Man" Winterfeather accept this challenge. I have already dealt with the Trolls and Troggs in Coldridge Valley. I will post my progress as soon as I can.

Welcome Ironman! Keep us posted!

One more thing you should watch out for as I have had cheaters in our guilds before.

Watch the killing blows as well. Many people dual box or have friends not grouping but finishing their kills for them. They just tag a mob with an instant damage. It makes grinding super fast just like what Athene did on cata release...and dual boxing with a priest following you is cake.

Thank you for the warning. I imagine we'll get a little more wary of rule-breakers as people get closer to 85. Has anyone got to 85 under Permadeath rules?
37 Draenei Hunter
140
To those 85's who are not even participating in this challenge...or who think you might maybe participate but haven't yet.....would you kindly let us evolve our own event?

Thank you to those who have supported me, and I am still pretty bummed, this is starting to get danged snarky. I never wanted to win or get recognized, i wanted to have fun.

When we started, as a group we felt that the "spirit of the rules" was more important than strict adherance to them.
Edited by Ironic on 1/26/2012 12:54 PM PST
25 Human Warlock
120
Please don t take it the wrong way because I am not at all trying to stir controversy. I see you are granting leniency...

What happens if someone dies to comcast or power going down or lag etc...will you be lenient? In a real competition you make a mistake and you are out. If you are not going to enforce your own rules because "its the first infraction" then it is not really a challenge but simply a game.

I believe you have strict rules for a reason. I worry that if you start being lenient then the people who will get to 85 without having made mistakes will feel cheated. On the other end I understand you don t want to alienate people and discourage them since permadeather are rare.

Take another example. I had a guild member level 62 in zangarmarsh who was doing the hardcore leveling bit will ALL restrictions. She killed a silver mob by mistake and got an achieve...had to start over from scratch.

Also is the challenge a race to first or will you have a set number of winners per class or race or is it more for a "personal achievement" to have made it to the top and anybody can join at any time?


Some people I guess are treating this as a competition. I myself am not. If 40 people get to 85 before me, grats to them! I'm doing this for one reason: to challenge myself. To me Aberzombie's lists are just a way to see how others are doing; not to judge how I am doing. The lists are like the stories: fun! I hope others see it the same way, since I feel that is what this challenge is all about. If people want to make it a competition, cool. I'll encourage and cheer them on. As I've stated before: There's no achievement, no FoS, no title, no reward waiting for you when you get to 85, even if you get there first. There's just the satisfaction of knowing you completed this.

Ironmikey, lvl 30 Warlock
Wyrmrest Accord(Ally) - /join iron to chat!
25 Human Warlock
120
01/26/2012 12:41 PMPosted by Selenagnomez
On the Westfall quest: that potion does not show up on an armory, and since it is part of a quest(meaning you HAVE to use it to complete the quest)

This is my understand as well. I wish there were an easier way to convey the intention of the "spirit" without all these rules but it's not that simple. I'll see if I can reword the potions rule.


I feel the same way, but I don't know if rules adjustments will do the trick. I think people will either "get" it or they won't.
56 Blood Elf Mage
10275
[quote][quote]

Doing this on a pvp server is simply abuse, its a foregone conclusion that is more luck than any apparent skill to the game. ganking of lowbies is a fan favorite, so if you are on a pvp server and managed to not get ganked - more power to you. Even with the name "neverdied"
Show me a person that has done this challenge, and if its so freakin easy - you do it.
Or
You can just go away and quit trying to make trouble.


Not making trouble, just stating that this has been done before and harder.

Achievements below 100 is not stupid, it is really hard and the fact that you can not recognize that shows a lot. As far as showing a person who has done that on a pvp server I could show you my alliances 60+ on Illidan/cho'gall (not named Neverdied of course) but you would tell its name to every horde making it impossible to finish.


I will take on this "challenge" and get to 85 with less than 100 achievements and following the simple rules of the Ironman. You can belittle me then.


Whatever. Simple math will make it where you cannot level to 85 w/o getting 100 achievement points - unless you d olike zero quests.
(10 per level to 80, then one for 85 = thats 90 points.)
So good luck getting to 85, not dying, and doing quests and not getting those last 10 points.
Unless you are under some believe that grinding mobs to 85 is somehow a freaking challenge.
Please for crying out loud, if this is so easy - then flipping do it and quit griefing us about how "its been done, and better."
Edited by Janileth on 1/26/2012 1:08 PM PST
01/26/2012 12:52 PMPosted by Ironic
I never wanted to win or get recognized, i wanted to have fun.

I'm here to have fun. This is just a personal achievement for me, regardless of how far along in the "official" Ironman Challenge I get. I had questions about the rules as well but it's really become clear to me what the intent and spirit of the ruleset is. I won't be worrying about them going forward.

It's extremely immersing to play with heightened awareness of the risk of failure (death). It's also very easy to stop looking at this as something completely different and let an old habit slip out. I've leveled dozens and dozens of characters of every class. For me, the hard part is to do it differently with just this one character, to not forget that I have no reserves to fall back on, no group of friends who "have my back" when things go badly, to always not click that potion or equip the next quest upgrade.

I'm glad that the structure of this challenge isn't with rules that engender arbitrary failure (PvP, achievement caps), tedium, or frustration - but with rules that lay a simple egalitarian framework for us to operate within.

95 Undead Rogue
6025

I’m hoping we are not already in a “it was good while it lasted” situation with this Challenge. So many people are asking such “nit-noy” questions, looking for exceptions to the basic rules and/or advantages over other players, that we’re suddenly not getting much of anything else done.

I for one felt that the potion question, as speedy and honest as it was when it first occurred, was answered: most of us had no problem with the toon continuing as is. The player has offered to continue playing, but has been willing from the beginning to forgo eligibility for “winner” status (however that ends up being defined if was ever even relevant). I had thought that was what was going on. I continued to include the toon on the Leaderboard, more as an act of consideration –players like to compare their progress versus others and her participation may have enticed others to actually join in.

It’s getting too complicated and going far outside the original intent of the Challenge.

Please, people, use a little sense. No one was intending a cheat, or trying for a back-hand “secret” advantage. Don’t be so overly competitive against eachother. That’s not the real intent of the Challenge and never was. It was not a Challenge against others, it was a Challenge for self!

Be honest with yourself. If you REALLY feel that a minor slip is no big deal then I doubt most of the rest of us will fault you. If you want to keep playing the Challenge, by all means do so. We can hardly bar participation – that too would go against the intent of the Challenge. Play, enjoy, write up your adventures as so many others have done; share with us and everyone can have fun – which is what I thought this was about. Stop wrangling for status and competing against us but help us make this whole experience a positive thing for everyone involved.

As an otherwise “disinterested observer”, I am unilaterally reinstating Ironic and Ironbrit to my Leaderboard list, not because I consider them “winning” anything, but merely because they have managed to get so far with so little – a feat I know I could not do. So, out of respect for their accomplishment, and in the hopes that it will give more people a reason to join in and help us all have fun, they’re back on the list. Anyone who doesn’t get listed because these names push them off the top-10 will hopefully take it with good grace and work that much harder to climb back up the ladder.

Please, people… tone it down some.

Please.
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