Min/maxing Madness combat dps

85 Dwarf Rogue
2600
When we first were trying Madness I ran combat but wasn't seeing great numbers. I switched to sub and focused on single target, and my numbers went up nicely.

I checked WOL and noticed combat is far and away ahead in parses so I figure I must not be making great use of my AOE.

Few questions on min-maxing it like:

-FOK on Bloods, or Blade Flurry + SS?
-Is it worth using Killing Spree for bloods, or just save it for single targeting tentacles?
-From what I understand you can blade flurry from blistering to hand, but not the reverse, is it worth doing this, you can't really gain CPs well considering blistering die pretty quickly, but really you want them to die as fast as possible from a raid perspective wouldn't not using BF be preferable?
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85 Night Elf Rogue
9030
01/26/2012 05:31 PMPosted by Svargsjold
-FOK on Bloods, or Blade Flurry + SS?

FoK since it can proc Spellweaving on everything it hits.

01/26/2012 05:31 PMPosted by Svargsjold
-Is it worth using Killing Spree for bloods, or just save it for single targeting tentacles?

I use it in the arm/wing tentacles and elementium bolt.

01/26/2012 05:31 PMPosted by Svargsjold
-From what I understand you can blade flurry from blistering to hand, but not the reverse, is it worth doing this, you can't really gain CPs well considering blistering die pretty quickly, but really you want them to die as fast as possible from a raid perspective wouldn't not using BF be preferable?

Blistering tentacles are really annoying, but blade flurry lets you damage the arm/wing tentacles while you deal with them. Helps to squeeze out a little bit more DPS out of a bad situation for combat.

Also make sure you're using redirect.

The fight for me looks like...

Open on the wing/arm tentacle, build to moderate insight, killing spree.

Redirect to the corrupted tentacle in the back, adrenaline rush.

Kill the corrupted tentacle, switch to the elementium bolt (later: take cover, then kill bolt).

Redirect back to the wing/arm tentacle, build insight + killing spree if not used on bolt.

FoK hemorrhaged bloods while meleeing the wing/arm tentacle (if Kalegros is down, blade flurry).

Switch to blistering tentacles on platforms after Alexstrasza's, then back to the arm/wing tentacle.

Kill it, and jump platforms. Repeat for ten !@#$ing minutes.

P2 is a lot simpler and probably not worth going through step by step.
Edited by Verelyse on 1/26/2012 6:16 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
Vex
9280
01/26/2012 06:00 PMPosted by Verelyse
Kill the corrupted tentacle, switch to the elementium bolt (later: take cover, then kill bolt).
If you cloak just before the bolt lands you can avoid taking cover and maintain extra up-time on the Corrupted, then just switch over to the Bolt which should usually land pretty close to you. If it lands close enough you can actually even Blade Flurry between the two.
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90 Human Rogue
19585
assassin :]
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85 Undead Rogue
6495
I was told to FoK with wound poison on my throwing for the hemorrhages.
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85 Human Death Knight
2820
I heard this too but, Wound over Instant? Really?
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90 Goblin Rogue
10760
hit my enter key, wasnt done, update inc
Edited by Swii on 1/27/2012 7:32 AM PST
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85 Night Elf Rogue
9225
01/27/2012 06:48 AMPosted by Blackbetty
I heard this too but, Wound over Instant? Really?

On your throwing weapon, very much yes.

IP is only better on your MH once DP stacks and helps with the proc rate.
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90 Goblin Rogue
10760
01/27/2012 06:48 AMPosted by Blackbetty
I heard this too but, Wound over Instant? Really?


The reason you use wound over instant is because, while wound may be weaker, it procs a LOT more consistently (higher chance), so you get smoother damage distribution, instead of random hits because the chance is lower. In fact, wound/wound on both your daggers is only 1% dps loss for this reason over instant/deadly combo, and is preferred if you have to switch targets at least once every 30 seconds (yor'sahj perhaps).

Anyway, here's what I do on deathwing as a combat rogue.

Raid leader counting down, prepot at 2 seconds. The INSTANT combat starts, the moment you see <entering combat> (I use a mod, but thats the standard scrolling flag), the arm tentacle is able to be DPSed, even though its coming out of the maelstrom. I build up 2-3 CPs then use slice and dice to get enough to last through adrenaline rush. Raid leader pops time warp off the bat (because you'll have it up for P5). Now, because target switching frequently impacts dps so much, my raid lets me stay on the arm for the entire bandit's guile cycle, using killing spree at 3 seconds left, then sprinting over to the corruption. (with time warp/AR/prepot, there's times I push it to the first blistering tentacle phase by myself after everyone else has switched). DPS corruption. Help healers by feinting (pro tip: it slams every 6 seconds, except after impale, which is 4 seconds). Bolt comes, at 1-2 seconds before it comes in range, run over to hand, pop BF, when it soars into melee range, pop KS if you have it, if not, just dps hand/cleave to bolt, or vice versa. On wing tentacles, BF wont reach, so just single target. Again, because of target switching issues, raidj lets me immediately dps the hand instead of running over to the corruption with 10-20% hp left. When hemorrhages come out, as was previously stated, fan of knives with wound poison proccing spellweave is the most aoe dps. Beg your tanks to keep bloods within range of the arm, so you don't have to stop autoattacking it (and can keep some BF damage rolling, deadly stacks up, etc). Once those are dead, you're home free. Continue as normal, but don't pop adrenaline rush too late, or you'll waste it when the arm dies and you still have time left on it.

Other platforms are the same, with minor differences. If your platform has no time distortion from Nozdormu’s platform, stand on the impact location of the bolt, pop cloak of shadows at 1 second, KS when it lands (you can’t KS the corruption, so even if you’re targeting the corruption, all of your KS hits will damage the bolt), and remember to pop blade flurry before you do, because each KS hit will mirror onto the tentacle. DPS the tentacle while standing on the bolt to cleave blade flurry to it for some nice dps gains. Feint the tentacles while doing this if you have a free GCD, healers will smile at you as you take 50% less damage from the pulses, or a stray smash.

If your platform has no Alexstrasza buff, when Blistering Tentacles spawn, target one with blade flurry up, SS 2-3 times depending on how fast its daying, and quickly renew SnD or Recuperate (yes, use recup) before it dies, because you can’t scavenge combo points on these like you can most dead things. If you have any CPs on a low tentacle and you can’t renew SnD or Recup because they’re more powerful, just evis it so you don’t waste CPs.

On the final platform, Deathwing’s head, start on the head like any rational person would do, and pray to the gods of Warcraft that tentacles spawn inside your cleave range. If they do, beg your other raiders to kill the ones far away while you dps Deathwing with BF up, stacking on the tentacle(s). If not, as much as it hurts, run to a tentacle and dps it. Save adrenaline rush. When the elementium terrors spawn, tricks your tank (if you don’t have tricks, pray you don’t get aggro, and have your finger on your vanish key), pop adrenaline rush with blade flurry on, and cleave the living @#$% out of them. It’s not meter padding if they need to die, plus the longer they’re up, the more danger your tanks are in. Repeat until Deathwing is dead. Use your potion on time warp or on adrenaline rush, use discretion.

This is how I squeeze every possible ounce of dps out of the Deathwing encounter. I usually beat every other raid member in our 10 man by a pretty wide margin, which includes a fire mage of equal gear plus the legendary Tarecgosa staff. Also, he has 5% haste, but we have NO windfury. qq.

(pro tip 2: feint feint feint feint feint, if you have a free GCD that won’t energy cap you, feint. Glyph feint or it’s a dps loss. AND CLICK THE @$#%ING LIGHTWELL)
Edited by Swii on 1/27/2012 8:03 AM PST
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85 Worgen Rogue
6195
Swii, thank you so much for that guide. I will follow it the next couple nights as my guild attempts DS normal Madness. Can you give me an actual number figure to expect based on what you do in that fight?
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90 Goblin Rogue
10760
I think I ended with 53k on my best attempt, although that was with the 397 daggers, the night we did deathwing when I had my 406's, I was at a hotel, and the internet went out halfway through Kalecgos's platform, so I don't know on that one. Next week, I'll make a note to screenshot it.

Note: we're 10 man without windfury. on LFR, I think I've done 72k, but I haven't done it in weeks.

(I say "I think" a lot because I study recount after the fight [never have it open during], but I don't write anything down)
Edited by Swii on 1/27/2012 9:30 AM PST
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Nice post Swii, but why the intel/haste gems? :s
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85 Worgen Rogue
6195
01/27/2012 09:29 AMPosted by Swii
Note: we're 10 man without windfury. on LFR, I think I've done 72k, but I haven't done it in weeks.


Doing LFR, I manage about 62K with fear and vengeance in assassination.
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90 Goblin Rogue
10760
01/27/2012 09:42 AMPosted by Justanalt
Nice post Swii, but why the intel/haste gems? :s


...I hate you. xD

but really I love you for bringing this to my attention. It's because I was stupid and in a hurry and used the int/haste gems that I bought for my priest, thinking they were agility. I apologize.

I have fixed it. I found 110 more agility as a result of that + changing green quality gems (cheap bastard) to blue as well.

Edited by Swii on 1/28/2012 10:22 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
14930
That's ok swii, I once saw a priest with an expertise gem in a random, so don't feel too bad.....unless that was you're priest in which case I think you need to lay off the controlled substances when you're gemming.
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85 Orc Rogue
2700
Best attempt was just 53k at 406 gear? hm
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90 Goblin Rogue
10760
01/28/2012 04:18 PMPosted by Drafted
Best attempt was just 53k at 406 gear? hm


Did anyone teach you to read? Clearly, you're on the forums. So what is it, ignorance?

I am not 406 geared. All you have to do is click on me to see that. I haven't even broke 400 yet with pvp gear in my bag. Back then, I was 396 with the 397 daggers.

Also, haste is combat's best stat, and we don't have windfury.

And finally, if it was a 25 man, as I clearly stated, I did 73k in LFR.

Now shoo, before I break out my troll-b-gone spray.
Edited by Swii on 1/28/2012 5:05 PM PST
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85 Orc Rogue
2700
Oh, okay, so 53k in 396, got it.
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90 Goblin Rogue
10760
01/28/2012 10:40 PMPosted by Drafted
Oh, okay, so 53k in 396, got it.


I'd say that's pretty good for no windfury.
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90 Goblin Rogue
10365
01/28/2012 11:57 PMPosted by Swii
Oh, okay, so 53k in 396, got it.


I'd say that's pretty good for no windfury.


Hey Swii, just curious why you are using those enchants for the cloak and boots. Those shouldn't be that easy to replace =p
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