Too scared to Arena...

Cataclysm has been one giant MMR abusing mess. It's hard to tell if you joking or not when you basically say "Wait till MoP" after a year of arena neglect.
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90 Undead Warlock
14110
Also, while I genuinely do appreciate a Blue post in this forum (it is clearly hostile territory for you - the pvp community is NOT pleased), I hope that Blizzard employees understand why it is so discouraging to go through an entire expansion without any really effort by Blizzard to address deep PvP flaws.

I do understand that making every class "balanced" is hard.

However it is NOT hard to make sure that players have more than 2 seconds to live during 1v1 PvP. It is NOT hard to make interrupts or dispels non-trivial. I'm looking at the very most basic underpinnings of WoW's PvP and saying that it is not in a good way.
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100 Dwarf Paladin
12355
I gave up on arena because it seems that only a few specs seems to be able to actually have fun with it and Ret's not one of them because of the extremely poorly thought out toolkit we have.
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100 Troll Death Knight
13880
Like many people, I'm at a bit of a loss when I read blue posts like the ones in this thread. I have read blue comments during Cata discussing the rate of change with regard to pvp balance, and that Blizz don't want to have a mass of balance changes every patch because people don't like having to constantly relearn their class. This is a good ideal, but it is in my opinion being taken too far. It really feels like there is barely any pvp balancing going on at all. It also feels like some classes get completely ignored when it comes to pvp balance, and that when changes are made, they are often excessively large buffs or nerfs of abilities.

What I don't understand is the lack of changes when there are blatant imbalances. There are currently some seemingly massive balance outliers in wow pvp. The fact that they haven't been balanced, in some cases for the whole expansion, is a source of frustration to many players.

It honestly seems like the developers have all but given up on pvp balance. It is highly complex to balance such a large number of specs, but in my opinion, you can do much better than you are right now.
Edited by Allucia on 1/28/2012 9:19 AM PST
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85 Goblin Death Knight
8475

As far as the current balance of various classes: it’s something we are, as always, keeping a close watch on. We welcome you to post constructively about your observations in the appropriate threads, and the more focused and on-topic you can keep it, the better.

While it's not possible to address every individual thread or concern of the community, rest assured we are listening, regardless if you see us post within a particular thread or not.


Really getting sick and tired of this answer, Blizzard gives this bland response "we read every post, even if we don't post" more and more. I for one don't want constant forum responses, I don't care if there aren't enough forum monkeys to cover every topic. I want to see something done about balance!

You shouldn't have to come to the forums to see the class representation in PVP. There are triple the number of Rogues vs Hunters in 3s at all ratings above 1600. Resto druids have been thrown under the bus for a 2nd season. RMP and RLS constitute ~42% of the 3s teams competing above 1800.

Don't give posts the little blue 'pat on the back.' Go show some effort in the freaking game.
Edited by Sahtra on 1/28/2012 9:23 AM PST
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60 Blood Elf Death Knight
580
well its true rogue gives the most trouble cause they have amazing peels and tbh i dont mind smokebomb at all but the fact rogues can stun lock a taget to death or garrote then theres that ambush spam for massive burst , then there's amazing ability to survive easily just vanish /cloak pretty much rogues have it all good cc, good peels , good burst , and good suvival tbh its always been mages/rogue with the great utility
theres a reason why rogues are normally always on the top ranks in arena not saying its easy but amazing how rogues have soo much to offer while other class dont have nearly as much as rogues do
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60 Blood Elf Death Knight
580
there's a reason why blizz lost ALOTTTTT of subs and its pretty clear with the MMR mess and mages/rogues being gods as usual .....love the LFR idea btw
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85 Orc Rogue
9360
PvE Trinkets and Legendaries need Not Useable in Rated Arena/Battlegrounds

This is the same problem every time. If people want to trade out rings or pants for more DPS at the cost of resilience, then fine, but this broke !@#$ trinkets and weapons just ruin things for everyone but the owner of OP trinkets/weapons
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90 Human Death Knight
6270
Blue bites a troll thread - doesn't smell other good discussions. See you in a year, annual post and all. :P
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85 Blood Elf Rogue
1440
Another "next expansion will fix it" from a blue...and we fall for it every time.

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90 Human Death Knight
0
First off thank you for showing up and proving at least some threads get looked at.

Please don't treat us like we're mentally challenged and just don't understand how to play this game.

Please stop with the spin.

Please just for once be honest and say "we f'ed up please give us sometime we're working on it." and maybe a "We tried to help Rogue PvE representation and went too far. We also realize PvE gear in Arena is a HUGE problem." added in.

Please stop saying Mists will fix it. Its actually more insulting to me to hear that than "deal with it" because at least when you say "deal with it" you are being honest rather than slyly saying "deal with it."

Or you could just actually put your money where your mouth is and actually address the issues of:

PvE Trinkets and Weapon procs working vs players.
Legendaries being allowed in Arena.
Classes having both high control and damage e.g. Frost Mages and Sub Rogues.

You don't need to tackle every problem in PvP at once. Just fix those 3 and the PvP community might just have civil conversation with you from now on.
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85 Night Elf Druid
5745
So "Mists will fix everything." Forgive people for their skepticism, but TBC, WotLK, and Cataclysm were purported to address these issues, and yet PvP is still in a pretty shabby state. So I hope you can understand how people are skeptical.

Also, "just keep at it for the next 6-10 months while we sit back and do nothing for Cataclysm" doesn't really help out the shattered spirits. And no, nerfing the wrong specs (tank specs), while leaving frost mages and rogues as gods and forsaking resto druids to be the joke of PvP healers (as they have been for most of this expansion already) doesn't count as "doing something."


There is so much wrong with this post. Hmm, where to start. First and foremost, this is a team based game. It's not a game where you can just solo everything into oblivion, no matter what class you play. It's also not a game where you can run around all by yourself and expect to adequately defend yourself from one or more attackers.

Every class is given tools for both offense and defense, and some classes have more of one than other classes, but no single class has all the tools in one bag, not even the almighty rogues.

As other people have pointed out, if you stay in a group with other players, and work as a team to accomplish goals and objectives, you tend to do a lot better in the long run, and that's the way the game was intended to be played.

The tools each class gets are designed with group pvp in mind, which means that activities like 1v1 are slightly skewed because the amount of damage players can do is balanced around the presence of at least one healer. The amount of healing players can do is balanced around the presence of multiple DPS.

The 'fixing' you're talking about has thus far been in regard to class mechanics and spec viability. Right now, at this moment, every class has a viable spec in pvp, and most have more than one viable spec. There are some exceptions and instances where a class/spec is more viable in BGs than arena, or vice versa.

The changes they are making in MoP are different than a lot of changes they have made in the past, and while it's still too far away to fix anything now, as they've stated before, they don't want to go and make sweeping changes to a class in the middle of a season/patch.

As the blue stated, if you are finding yourself getting blown up in pvp, there are many things at your disposal both inside and outside the game, that can help you become a better player. I play arguably the weakest spec of any class out there (resto druid, lulz) as my MS in pvp, and I enjoy it.

I'm not the highest rated player out there, but I do have some decent experience in 2s/3s. If anything, I think there is a lot of work that needs to be done to open up rated pvp, particularly rated BGs.

Too many players never get the opportunity to participate in a good group, and it's quite sad. I'm on one of the most populated alliance pvp servers, and I can't find a decent rated BG group that doesn't peace out after the first game.

A good start would be not penalizing teams for bringing lower rated players on board.
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70 Dwarf Rogue
780
In fact, we have design plans for new PvP combat mechanics that will make PvP gear and weapons markedly better in PvP than equivalent level PvE gear and weapons.

The overall goal is to reduce the barrier for crossing between PvE and PvP (and vice versa), as well as to also ensure that PvP gear is the best in PvP, and PvE gear is the best in PvE.


These two statements contradict. You want to make it easier to go from pvp to pve. But the biggest barrier as it stands is the fact that pvp gear far outweighs any skill in a pvp battle. This makes it so that the only way to have a real chance is to spend a while collecting pvp gear. Now you want to make pvp gear even more effective over pve gear to make that barrier even stronger? That's moving in the opposite direction.


that was my thoughts as well. they were supposedly making resilience a base stat so it wouldn't take so long to be competitive in pvp, but now it just seems like back to the grind to not get instakilled
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100 Worgen Warrior
13360
As you already mentioned, in the upcoming patch there is a change to Vial of Shadows that should reduce some of the burst damage you are experiencing in PvP.

Dying in openers certainly isn't fun, and can be incredibly frustrating if you're the one on the receiving end of such a coordinated attack, but don't give up! In addition to perhaps taking some time to focus on other activities such as Rated and unrated Battlegrounds where you have more people to watch your back, you might also consider browsing some PvP videos from other members of the community to not only help inspire you, but to also arm you with a further arsenal of tactics that you can use to your own advantage against opposing teams.

Also, from my own experience, when I was having a lot of trouble against a certain class or spec that I felt countered my usual tactics, I found it helpful to sometimes grab a friend that played that class and spent some time dueling them so that they could critique me on areas where I could improve my skills, including my timing on using certain abilities, and how I could counter some of their own tactics. That way when I stepped back into arenas, I was more confident in my own skills and felt better-prepared for how to expose the weaknesses of my enemies.

Keep at it, and remember there are players out there equally as scared to see you step out onto the Arena floor. :)


and there you have it folks not everyone can see clearly now because the rain isn't gone. It still falls on their eyes not understanding what the true issue is.. no offense blue post but hopefully this view isn't tainted by tunnel vision.

*Vial of shadows nerf isn't necessary for pvp.Its the classes that truly needs the nerf and I am not talking about burst damage. I am also talking about heals as well.*


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90 Human Warrior
10940
One of our upcoming goals in Mists of Pandaria is to make the gap between the overall DPS/healing of both PvE and PvP items smaller. In fact, we have design plans for new PvP combat mechanics that will make PvP gear and weapons markedly better in PvP than equivalent level PvE gear and weapons.

The overall goal is to reduce the barrier for crossing between PvE and PvP (and vice versa), as well as to also ensure that PvP gear is the best in PvP, and PvE gear is the best in PvE.

More details on these upcoming changes will be posted as they become available.

I respect your polite tone and I know you are just trying to raise the OP's spirits but even your own words really boil down to having someone bail you out when a Rogue strikes. While that is indeed the best and often only solution, it really doesn't say much about the balance of Rogues in general.


Regardless of anyone’s rankings past or present, the process of learning and striving to improve never stops: it helps even the most battle-hardened gladiator remain able to go toe-to-toe with their fiercest opponents.

In team-based combat such as Arenas, pressuring an enemy in order to go for a kill or striving to protect your comrade from being the brunt of a focused assault are part of the experience, no matter what classes are driving to get the job done. Most matches are an incredibly complicated dance between combatants: a push and pull of offensive and defensive tactics, of coordinating switches, interrupts, dispels, crowd control, and of learning when to use your particular cooldowns or abilities, and when to change your tactics on the fly. Depending on who you ask, what class they are, what brackets they are in, and what team compositions they run, you are likely to get a totally different answer as to what particular class gives them the most trouble at any given time.

As far as the current balance of various classes: it’s something we are, as always, keeping a close watch on. We welcome you to post constructively about your observations in the appropriate threads, and the more focused and on-topic you can keep it, the better.

While it's not possible to address every individual thread or concern of the community, rest assured we are listening, regardless if you see us post within a particular thread or not.


do you play the same game i do?? have you even hit 1800?
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85 Human Warrior
5755
01/28/2012 10:11 AMPosted by Zephyrn
Another "next expansion will fix it" from a blue...and we fall for it every time.


When Star Wars gets their act together it isn't going to work again.
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85 Undead Warlock
4950
oh look! another "nerf pve stuff so i can has my pvp" thread.

fix it on the pvp end please.
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85 Human Death Knight
One
6080
oh look! another "nerf pve stuff so i can has my pvp" thread.

fix it on the pvp end please.


Yeah removing PvE items in arena sure is a hard hitting nerf to PvE...
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85 Undead Warrior
10140
I notice there's a big thread asking for constructive feedback in the EU forums, but I can't post there. So this will be my attempt to make a serious, constructive post, though at a higher level of abstraction.

First and foremost, if you're looking for feedback from the community, make it clearer what sort of feedback you're looking for. For example, I see a lot of suggestions for particular solutions that players think will be simpler or easier; but when it comes to programming, ideas that seem conceptually simple and easy from the user end can actually be quite complicated or near impossible to implement without causing other major problems. Is this sort of feedback really useful to you? It would seem like your programmers know much better than we do what the simplest way of fixing certain problems might be. So, what sort of feedback do you want or need from us? Is it just an explanation of the problem? (I think the problem, at the moment, is actually pretty well-defined and obvious). Do you want us to tell you what sort of solutions we'd find to be acceptable? Well, if so, give us an idea of what some of the alternatives might be. If you want *useful* feedback, give us a better idea of what kind of information you want from us.

Secondly, I think for purposes of morale you should give the community an idea of how far you're willing to go and what time frame you're thinking of for a solution. Bear in mind that the pve gear issue is not "new"; legendary daggers and dps trinkets have merely brought an existing problem to a breaking point. Even before DS gear became prevalent, things were not much fun, and competitive pvp hasn't even seemed worth bothering with to me this season so far. Is that going to change this season? Will it change this expac? It would be good to know.
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