Too scared to Arena...

90 Human Mage
5850
cough cough

pve game folks.... pve game...
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85 Human Paladin
9250
01/27/2012 07:54 PMPosted by Vaeflare
The overall goal is to reduce the barrier for crossing between PvE and PvP (and vice versa), as well as to also ensure that PvP gear is the best in PvP, and PvE gear is the best in PvE.


These seem like competing objectives, I'm interested to hear how you plan to accomplish this. Also, will this apply even to legendaries? I hope so... or I at least hope that it will boil down to a difficult decision between using your legendary or your PVP weapon.
Edited by Kylos on 1/29/2012 7:38 PM PST
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43 Night Elf Hunter
11020
.
Edited by Jawaka on 1/29/2012 7:58 PM PST
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85 Draenei Hunter
11685
01/27/2012 07:54 PMPosted by Vaeflare
While it's not possible to address every individual thread or concern of the community, rest assured we are listening, regardless if you see us post within a particular thread or not.


This is not a personal comment, so please don't take it the wrong way. I appreciate that you put forth the effort to make such a lengthy post and am glad to hear anything at this point.

HOWEVER, the constant reassurance that you're listening is not a proxy for action. Only action can reassure WoW PvPers at this point. For many players, you guys have used up all your promises.
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85 Worgen Warrior
5785
And people wonder why blues never post here.

Part of me wants to believe they're ashamed.... but the reality hits and I see they just don't like being called out like that.

/sigh
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90 Blood Elf Priest
0
01/27/2012 07:54 PMPosted by Vaeflare
While it's not possible to address every individual thread or concern of the community, rest assured we are listening, regardless if you see us post within a particular thread or not.


I'm not worried about whether you're reading (which i'm sure you are), i'm worried about what actually gets done to fix things, which has been rare. :(


Rarer than the past, which is pretty hard to believe. Wotlk pvp had huge problems, but atleast we got more attempted fixes.
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1 Draenei Warrior
0
I love all the RMP opener QQ, yet at the NAO tournament (some of the best pvpers in the game) there is only 1 RMP team. Granted, 8 teams have rogues (a combination of them being strong and synergizing with virtually any class, exemplified by there being a good mix of melee and caster partners with the rogue), there are only 4 teams with mages (who according to this thread are globaling people nonstop). Why wouldn't the best pvpers in a tournament not take a mage so they can kill the enemy healer in a global? O wait, the linked video is a highlight reel of a combination of lucky crits and 1 time when a team that good lets them have a clean opener. Even just a small amount of CC/interrupt on the mage (pet silence, the fricking rogue being on him) and the shaman lives easily. Sorry but letting 2 dps classes use cds and open unhindered is going to lose you a game every now and then when all of their attacks crit.

I have to agree with the blue post that the very vast majority of the complaining is a L2P issue.
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85 Draenei Mage
9160

I wonder why, what with the community treating every Blue who comes into this forum on the rare occasion like absolute crap. Those are obviously people Blizzard wants to listen to and take ideas from, am I right? All the butthurt and bitterness are not helping anything except digging your own graves, especially when you take it out on the people who develop the damn game. I think that's the biggest shame of all considering how many on here consistently cry out for PvP balance or for Blizzard to even glance at some of their suggestions.

You want PvP to improve? Drop the sarcastic comedy act and talk to Blizzard like they're fellow human beings and maybe they'll start listening. Or you could always keep doing what you're doing and let the PvErs continue to have a dominant say over every aspect of the game.


Actually what will happen is that the PvP population of this game will leave because Blizzard can't balance their own game. Several hundred thousand subscribers left last quarter; right after Blizzard went in a polar opposite PvE direction from what they had adopted in WOTLK. They do pay attention to subscriber losses.

You make it sound like its' our job to balance the game. It's not. It's Blizzard's responsibility to do so, and the fact that they are doing a poor job is going to hurt them more than it does us. Eventually, people will just drop WoW and pick-up another game entirely.

Blizzard focuses more on PvE because more people do PvE content. It's not because PvE players communicate more. It's that more money is tied up in ensuring PvE is developed better and prioritized, because that's where a larger chunk of the subscription money comes from.

People have been saying since Burning Crusade that Legendary weapons in arena or any form of rated PvP is not fine. Players from multiple rating brackets have been complaining about PvE gear in PvP for *years*. There have been numerous posts on the WoW forums about it. There are posts on Arena Junkies about it (the developers visit Arena Junkies like everybody else).

It's not an issue of the PvP community not being communicative about balance issues. The developers either don't care, or do care but can't budget enough time to address PvP imbalances. It's one of those. The latter reality (them not having enough time) doesn't console anybody. There's no third choice available to justify several years of PvP imbalances which could have been addressed with some attention.

Glaive rogues were ridiculous. Shadowmourne was ridiculous. Dragonwrath *is* ridiculous. Rogue legendary daggers are ridiculous. PvE trinkets have been changing/skewing PvP on a competitive level since *classic*.

At this point, I would honestly just feel better if they just came out and admitted certain major failures. Either address major balance issues with concrete changes backed up by patch notes...or just tell the community nothing is going to change on a design philosophy level. The blue forum posts that speak in vague generalities about PvP truisms just anger people are are already frustrated.

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85 Blood Elf Warlock
10145
When I read this, it says to me that they like it when people try to raid in pvp gear, and bg in pve..... read between the lines.
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85 Dwarf Shaman
8390
01/27/2012 07:54 PMPosted by Vaeflare
One of our upcoming goals in Mists of Pandaria is to make the gap between the overall DPS/healing of both PvE and PvP items smaller.

Besides adding resilience as a core stat you get while leveling (which i hope is not too big) a good way to close more the gap between pvp and pve would be, in my opinion, to allow resilience to be reforgable. That way, a good raider could decide to do rated battle grounds with friends and would just need to reforge his least important stat into resilience to be competitive or a good gladiator could fill a raid pug reforging out some of his resilience into a more pve useful stat.
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100 Human Paladin
16525
I love all the RMP opener QQ, yet at the NAO tournament (some of the best pvpers in the game) there is only 1 RMP team. Granted, 8 teams have rogues (a combination of them being strong and synergizing with virtually any class, exemplified by there being a good mix of melee and caster partners with the rogue), there are only 4 teams with mages (who according to this thread are globaling people nonstop). Why wouldn't the best pvpers in a tournament not take a mage so they can kill the enemy healer in a global? O wait, the linked video is a highlight reel of a combination of lucky crits and 1 time when a team that good lets them have a clean opener. Even just a small amount of CC/interrupt on the mage (pet silence, the fricking rogue being on him) and the shaman lives easily. Sorry but letting 2 dps classes use cds and open unhindered is going to lose you a game every now and then when all of their attacks crit.

I have to agree with the blue post that the very vast majority of the complaining is a L2P issue.


The reason the tournament isn't filled with FOTM comps is because they're specifically limiting the amount of FOTM comps in the tournament.

See here:
http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/217765-nao-tournment-2-sign-up/
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85 Human Warrior
9045
I love all the RMP opener QQ, yet at the NAO tournament (some of the best pvpers in the game) there is only 1 RMP team. Granted, 8 teams have rogues (a combination of them being strong and synergizing with virtually any class, exemplified by there being a good mix of melee and caster partners with the rogue), there are only 4 teams with mages (who according to this thread are globaling people nonstop). Why wouldn't the best pvpers in a tournament not take a mage so they can kill the enemy healer in a global? O wait, the linked video is a highlight reel of a combination of lucky crits and 1 time when a team that good lets them have a clean opener. Even just a small amount of CC/interrupt on the mage (pet silence, the fricking rogue being on him) and the shaman lives easily. Sorry but letting 2 dps classes use cds and open unhindered is going to lose you a game every now and then when all of their attacks crit.

I have to agree with the blue post that the very vast majority of the complaining is a L2P issue.

Watching the NAO tournament proves just how useless certain classes and specs are. Rogues pretty much dominate, and all your going to see in the later brackets is who can get what bomb and what kidney off at the right time. Your not going to see a lot of mages because they're going to get hard countered by the other teams. A mage can global a team that can't control him well, but when you get a pally, rogue, and another class that will just ranged stun, blind, cyclone, fear, or lock you out, then your not going to get those 40k ice lance crits or massive frost bolt crits.

That video you saw is not a "one time" opener. That happens A LOT: mage is invisible, rogue opens on the healer, people begin to engage, then mage comes out and opens on the healer and globals him in 1-2 seconds of icy veins. L2P? I think it's more like learn to balance.
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90 Human Mage
5850
And people wonder why blues never post here.

Part of me wants to believe they're ashamed.... but the reality hits and I see they just don't like being called out like that.

/sigh


The issue is a blue posts in the pvp forum every couple of moons while we the community wait expansion after expansion for the pvp side of the game to actually be playable and at least somewhat balanced.

3v3 right now is nigh unplayable when people are dying in openers how is an average Joe supposed to enjoy that or even a gladiator player for that matter. My mage is my main and frankly I think the game is just aweful right now.

Wotlk was supposed to slow things down and it has not. Again this is the first expansion where participation has gone down with each season which is the total opposite of what has happened in expansions of the past.

It is painfully obvious that raiding is their priority and that pvp simply put dont matter. Ever notice that once they lost the MLG slot that pvp has been pretty much ignored. At least with the spotlight on the game from tournaments they had to put some sort of effort into the pvp side.

Arenas right now are juts for hardcore players and have been for a long time. Early season 9 saw a nice boost of participation but that is only cause pve was tougher than the WOTLK days so people went to the easier route for loot. Once pve was brought back into line and with Looking for raid now.... expect arena participation to completely go into the toilet.
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30 Gnome Warrior
340
wish the blue would have replied to the rogue killing a 4k resil target in 2sec or 1 of the dozen triple dps threads...pretty soon what they call their "balanced" bracket is becoming a joke as well.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8290
I love all the RMP opener QQ, yet at the NAO tournament (some of the best pvpers in the game) there is only 1 RMP team. Granted, 8 teams have rogues (a combination of them being strong and synergizing with virtually any class, exemplified by there being a good mix of melee and caster partners with the rogue), there are only 4 teams with mages (who according to this thread are globaling people nonstop). Why wouldn't the best pvpers in a tournament not take a mage so they can kill the enemy healer in a global? O wait, the linked video is a highlight reel of a combination of lucky crits and 1 time when a team that good lets them have a clean opener. Even just a small amount of CC/interrupt on the mage (pet silence, the fricking rogue being on him) and the shaman lives easily. Sorry but letting 2 dps classes use cds and open unhindered is going to lose you a game every now and then when all of their attacks crit.

I have to agree with the blue post that the very vast majority of the complaining is a L2P issue.


Did you not comprehend the vast majority of posts on here? You do understand that the NAO tourney is free of game breaking PVE items? Obviously you don't. I'll say it again. Heroic PVE items from 4.2 and zero pve items released in 4.3 are not allowed.
The RMP openers people are complaining about is occurring in rated matches where rogues are extremely OP with PVE gear. Most of this thread is a complaint about PVE gear in arenas or RBGs. CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? Don't bring NAO into this thread unless you are in support of removing pve gear from rated matches and not trying to defend a class.
NAO has awesome rules and if blizz would get off their high horses and humble themselves and implement those rules into pvp, it would be a better game. Not perfect, better.
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100 Undead Warlock
18460
01/29/2012 10:55 PMPosted by Astriantu
but letting 2 dps classes use cds and open unhindered is going to lose you a game every now and then when all of their attacks crit.


shouldn't matter who gets the opener, shouldn't be possible to chunk someone's health from 100% to 0 in two globals.

56K ice lances are retarded whether they happen in an opener or during the middle of a 5 minute game.

RETARDED.

Just like most of the PVP in this game right now.
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5 Troll Warrior
0
I love all the RMP opener QQ, yet at the NAO tournament (some of the best pvpers in the game) there is only 1 RMP team. Granted, 8 teams have rogues (a combination of them being strong and synergizing with virtually any class, exemplified by there being a good mix of melee and caster partners with the rogue), there are only 4 teams with mages (who according to this thread are globaling people nonstop). Why wouldn't the best pvpers in a tournament not take a mage so they can kill the enemy healer in a global? O wait, the linked video is a highlight reel of a combination of lucky crits and 1 time when a team that good lets them have a clean opener. Even just a small amount of CC/interrupt on the mage (pet silence, the fricking rogue being on him) and the shaman lives easily. Sorry but letting 2 dps classes use cds and open unhindered is going to lose you a game every now and then when all of their attacks crit.

I have to agree with the blue post that the very vast majority of the complaining is a L2P issue.


The reason the tournament isn't filled with FOTM comps is because they're specifically limiting the amount of FOTM comps in the tournament.

See here:
http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/217765-nao-tournment-2-sign-up/

Owned.

Astriantu isn't going to know what to do if rogues are ever balanced to not dominate in PvP.
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85 Worgen Druid
4780
As you already mentioned, in the upcoming patch there is a change to Vial of Shadows that should reduce some of the burst damage you are experiencing in PvP.

Dying in openers certainly isn't fun, and can be incredibly frustrating if you're the one on the receiving end of such a coordinated attack, but don't give up! In addition to perhaps taking some time to focus on other activities such as Rated and unrated Battlegrounds where you have more people to watch your back, you might also consider browsing some PvP videos from other members of the community to not only help inspire you, but to also arm you with a further arsenal of tactics that you can use to your own advantage against opposing teams.

Also, from my own experience, when I was having a lot of trouble against a certain class or spec that I felt countered my usual tactics, I found it helpful to sometimes grab a friend that played that class and spent some time dueling them so that they could critique me on areas where I could improve my skills, including my timing on using certain abilities, and how I could counter some of their own tactics. That way when I stepped back into arenas, I was more confident in my own skills and felt better-prepared for how to expose the weaknesses of my enemies.

Keep at it, and remember there are players out there equally as scared to see you step out onto the Arena floor. :)
What about Bone-Link Fetish and other such trinkets?
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