Cataclysm PVP Feedback

77 Human Priest
6050
I freely admit I haven't read every response, but one thing I have noticed in skimming this thread is the pleading by people to fix AV!

It's a crying shame what AV has become and Blizzard should be ashamed of themselves. AV should be one of the most epic PvP experiences and has been reduced to a game of who can rush the other general...i.e. PvE objective.

Do the right thing and restore AV to it's former glory! There are plenty of BG's for people to queue for in randoms if they don't want to invest the time for AV.
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85 Orc Death Knight
2200
PLEASE! GET OP PVE ITEMS OUT OF PVP!!! *begs*
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85 Blood Elf Warrior
3420
Worst balancing?Warriors period, you can even check the representation of warriors in top rated arenas it isnt a L2P issue at all s9 yeah pretty damn good but i dont want to be op then and gimped rest of the expansion so no one wants to bring me to anything other than flag carrying in rbgs which is boring as hell.
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100 Night Elf Hunter
8610
01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)

Arena geared players playing in random battlegrounds.
01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?

Capability to buy Conquest with Valor points
01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?

not interested.
01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like

"Have group will travel", it "empowers" city raids!!
01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?

moving the GY's in WSG
01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?

not interested
01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?

No effort to revive World PVP.
01/28/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Eldacar
What already announced Mists PVP changes/additions are you most looking forward to? (here is a summary of what is coming: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3424795794 )

changing out resillience for PVP power/defense, if you have the gear then you should be more powerful, and not just harder to kill. on the flipside this could also be casual PVP's undoing. Hopefully they don't make arena geared players so ridicously over-powererd that nobody can kill them.

03/05/2012 06:22 PMPosted by Nidar
What would I like to see that you have not listed?

A new option for players recovering from a fail city raid: "While in an opponents city, your hearthstone will allow teleport to the nearest graveyard to your set hearthstone location."

What do I think this will do? Revive world PVP, because one of the most annoying things of world PVP is recovery from a failed mission.

I freely admit I haven't read every response, but one thing I have noticed in skimming this thread is the pleading by people to fix AV!It's a crying shame what AV has become and Blizzard should be ashamed of themselves. AV should be one of the most epic PvP experiences and has been reduced to a game of who can rush the other general...i.e. PvE objective.Do the right thing and restore AV to it's former glory! There are plenty of BG's for people to queue for in randoms if they don't want to invest the time for AV.


I agree with your assesment.
01/29/2012 05:34 PMPosted by Kteist
Rewarding the winning team with conquest seems like a good idea, but it just amplifies the punishment for losing. I'd like to see some system in place that rewards players for continuing to fight even in a lost cause. (For example, if a player does 500,000 damage or gains 2 killing blows or heals 500,000 damage or gets a flag return/cap when his team is down 2 caps, that player gets the rewards for winning regardless of the loss.) I absolutely hate the idea that a player can play well and still be punished for losing because the random BG tool gave him an inferior group to the competition.


Nicely put. Fighting the losing battle is almost as important as winning. Too many times teams just give up, because they have nothing to fight for.
Edited by Nidar on 3/5/2012 6:37 PM PST
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90 Human Warlock
10850
I would love to be able to travel to the different arenas and watch PVP arena matches from the stands as a pve spectator.

so many possibilities
to learn how to play from people that are good at it
enjoyment in game when you want to just watch
support for fellow guildies, friends
makes pvp a more integral part of the pve world




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100 Human Priest
9955
What are your biggest PVP related quality of life issues? (Things that are an inconvenience but don't significantly affect game play or balance)


I miss my server. I miss knowing the Horde who PVP'd. I miss the community on my server. I really enjoy having insta-Q's when it comes to BG's, but... I really, really miss the Horde Vs Alliance mentality on my server.

What Cataclysm BG changes/additions did you like?


I enjoy Twin Peaks. I really like the layout, as well as the LoS obstacles mid-field. One problem with WSG is that, as a healer, range has open-season on me. I can't hide, I can't do my job efficiently. I always found 'wide-open' BG's to be horrendously biased towards DPS.

What Cataclysm Arena changes/additions did you like?


I don't do Arena's, IMHO - it's just too boring :\ I am glad you are reducing the focus. As a long-time PvPer, I was bewildered by your zeal to put Arena's at the forefront of PvP.

What Cataclysm General PVP changes/additions did you like?


The gear looks nice. I still like getting 50CP for each BG win I get, but I can't believe I need to get over 7000 points just to get the staff. I live in Tokyo, Japan. I can't raid or rBG on schedule with my guild. I feel punished for being where I am.

What are your top issues with Battlegrounds in Cataclysm?


I would like to see more old-school type AV style BG's. Specifically, I'd like the ability to queue with my own server - no reinforcements - and maybe get added rewards.

What are your top issues with Arenas in Cataclysm?


N/A

What are your top issues with General PVP in Cataclysm?


This is my key issue: CC. Crowd Control.

You have asked us to be logical, and rational. But I want to turn the tables around here; explain to us how CC in Cataclysm has been logical and/or rational?

The reason I ask this is because I don't believe it has been. Classes can stun me without actually aiming for me now. Classes can snare me without actually aiming for me.

What's the point of casting a spell like Leap-Of-Faith in PvP to save someone, if a frostbolt, or warrior charge is just going to stun/slow us? It was pointless to cast that spell. You made that spell inconsequential because of... well.... the inconsequential nature of CC!

CC has become so easy, and so inconsequential that... I... just don't get it. Why did I roll a Disc-Priest? I'm usually stunned or incapacitated, so I can't cast any of my defensive spells to begin with. And I only get ONE human-racial to actually break CC.

And let me tell you how crappy that makes the game feel.
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100 Human Warlock
15045
Basically casters that aren't Frost mages are destroyed by melee in bgs. Reduce interrupts and nerf sub.
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03/05/2012 09:19 PMPosted by Amarix
Basically casters that aren't Frost mages are destroyed by melee in bgs. Reduce interrupts and nerf sub.


This is fairly accurate.

It's also extremely frustrating that rogues basically can't be peeled off the target they are on except by the opportunistically casted Mind Control.


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I would love to be able to travel to the different arenas and watch PVP arena matches from the stands as a pve spectator.

so many possibilities
to learn how to play from people that are good at it
enjoyment in game when you want to just watch
support for fellow guildies, friends
makes pvp a more integral part of the pve world


That is one of the more original and intriguing ideas I have ever heard. Very much like.
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01/28/2012 12:57 PMPosted by Eldacar
Random BG team mismatching is a problem, obviously random BG's are going to be somewhat random by nature, however some system to actively balance the number of healers on each team would go a long way towards evening things up.


Some of the fun of random BGs is seeing what can be done with such random groupings of players, adapting to weaknesses and playing to strengths. Also, I think in the case of the larger BGs (IoC, AV and even, to a limited extent, AB) or a BG such as SotA (where the main thing heals helps on is dispells) healer imbalance is not the biggest issue. If one side has 15 healers and the other has 2 in AV, the only thing you have to worry much about is a hardcore turtle, but even then, the dps-heavy team is still likely to just keep all the towers and the heal-heavy team will likely turtle themselves to a very long loss.

However, in BGs such as WSG, TP, BfG and even to some extent EoS, a major discrepancy in heals and tanks can pretty much guarantee a win or loss, and gear can play a much larger role. People can talk about skill > gear all they want, but I remember being that guy in all crafted PvP gear who got the jump on a hunter and, when all my tricks were blown and he'd spent 8 of the past 10 seconds stunned, he was at 90% health and I was dead. Skill wins if all else is equal, but if you are hitting like a slap-happy baby on someone who is taking half your life with each shot, the only skill that will save you is vanishing and going after someone else.

So, when one side has a resto shaman with 130k hp and a pally tank with 145k hp and the other has 2 disc priests with 160k, a resto druid with 148k and a blood dk with 202k, the only way the first side is going to win is if all their dps are geared in near-to-full Cataclysmic and all the dps on the heals-heavy side is in quest greens.

I've been on both sides in those scenarios, and I can't imagine the person whose self esteem is so low they actually enjoy that kind of win.

And also, to those who will go on about how they won WSG with a full dps team against a team with heals and tanks, again, if you think it's because you are so awesome, you are deluding yourself. You simply outgeared the other team, or they sucked so bad you were essentially beating up on some group of mentally challenged kids who play WoW to help their motor skills. If one team, without tanks or heals, can get the flag, take it back to their base, and down an efc who is a tank and has heals while keeping their own fc alive, it's not because there was any level of equality in the matchup of gear. Thinking otherwise is as silly as assuming you can take out an Abrams tank with a bowie knife through pure skill if you are "leet" enough... and your name isn't Chuck Norris.
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Crowd Control:
I think the state of crowd control in PVP is possibly the biggest issue in the PVP side of the game right now. There are so many different forms of CC flying around that a player can easily spend the majority of a PVP engagement CC'ed in some fashion. My general reasoning for why this is a problem is this; the longer a player is CC'ed in any given PVP engagement, the less their skill as a player is affecting the outcome of that engagement.


IMO, first fix to try with this is to give all CC a shared DR.

TBH, I know people think they are getting stunlocked to death by rogues. Unless you are seriously outgeared by a rogue, if a single rogue can kill you while they have you stunned, I don't know what they are doing, but I'd love the tips on how to do it. And, with DR, any stun after that second is almost a waste of the combo points.

If you, as a lone player, are getting focused by 3-4 rogues and/or warriors and stunned the whole time as you die, well, again, TBH, aside from not being stunned the whole time, is their any equally-geared group of 3-4 dps who, if they focused you, you'd survive any better?

What people are really having issue with when they complain about it, is not as much the CC any one player does, but the CC they face with multiple players, or (in the case of rogues) that my blind and gouge don't suffer from the same DR as my CS and KS.

So, simplest, make it so that if I stun you and my teammate fears or roots you, the duration of that second CC is shortened by the first.

Or, make it so that no player can have more than 2 CCs land on them in any 1-minute time frame. Remove the diminishing returns so that each CC lasts its full duration, but once I've stunned and kidney shotted you, make it so you are immune to any other CC for the next 50 seconds. Seems fair to me anyway.

You'd likely have to adjust heals though, because if you come up against 3-4 healers working together and you can't chain CC at least one of them, you'll never get anywhere without around 10 players focus dpsing them one-by-one.
Edited by Hamal on 3/6/2012 9:57 AM PST
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86 Undead Rogue
8395
Alterac Valley. I got in around BC and I miss the epic battles around IWB and the graveyards as well as summoning the giant NPCs. What I liked most about "old school" AV was that it resembled a real battle in that a front line emerged out of the chaos and it was one team trying to push the other team back to the next GY.

DOTA! Why not have a MOBA-inspired BG with creeps, NPCs, and BG-specific items available for purchase at friendly stores?
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01/28/2012 12:57 PMPosted by Eldacar
Premades being matched against full pugs, the queue system may need to be tweaked to hold pre-mades in queue longer so that they can be matched against other premades more often.


I'd like to add multiboxers to this.

No, I'm not talking to those who multibox RBGs or arena. I don't understand what you get out of it; it's just not my play style. I think no one disagrees that multiboxers are mostly at a disadvantage in RBGs and arena, so I see how it's a challenge, and if you enjoy it, go for it.

But, if you are doing premades or multiboxing in random BGs, I'm sorry, but the "challenge" claim doesn't hold up any more than when people made level 19 twink teams in the day and went into WSG to beat up on people in quest greens. If you are doing this, you are purposefully seeking out a situation in which you expect to have a distinct advantage over the other players, and saying that the random people you encounter should just have more skill would be like a college basketball team going to a neighborhood park for pickup games and making fun of the 13-year-old kids for not being skilled enough and organized enough to beat them.

So, if these people really want a challenge, I say give it to them. Set two separate ques, one for individuals and groups smaller than "X" and one for groups of "X" and larger. IMO, I'd set X as 3, but 5 could work as well, since in most BGs a 5-man group won't be enough to upset the balance, and a multiboxer of only 3-5 with no other multiboxing teammates is as likely to be a liability as an advantage in many BGs. Let the multibotters and the premades have their own bracket where they can experience that challenge they so vociferously claim they are seeking, and let the people who want to actually be pitted in one random group against another random group get what they are looking for out of the game, rather than Blizz simply feeding them like so much free honor to anyone with the time and money to box/premade against random people, but not enough skill to do it against equals.
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Alterac Valley. I got in around BC and I miss the epic battles around IWB and the graveyards as well as summoning the giant NPCs. What I liked most about "old school" AV was that it resembled a real battle in that a front line emerged out of the chaos and it was one team trying to push the other team back to the next GY.

DOTA! Why not have a MOBA-inspired BG with creeps, NPCs, and BG-specific items available for purchase at friendly stores?


I totally agree.

I mean, a BG that lasts your whole Saturday... god I'd love that.

OK, I know we won't get AV back. I know. But I think enough people miss the old AV for Blizz to look at either a world PvP zone that never ends or a special BG (even a special AV that isn't in the random cycle) where people who simply want an epic, endless battle of massive carnage on a medieval scale can while-away their weekends.

For a world PvP thought, let us have a Gilneas City where the sections each have benefits to them and are constantly contested... or even better, give us the whole peninsula like that. Sort of a bit like Halaa, but with multiple Halaa-esque areas to be individually conquered, yet, unlike TB or WG, with the potential for people to constantly be fighting to take an area back. Give us a zone where the only time the world PvP ends is when you log off and go to bed.

That's all off the top of my head, and maybe half good ideas at best, but there has been so much tuning of PvP to the impatience of people who want to do a fast random, get their 50 CP and re-que, I'd like to see something for the people who actually are doing PvP because they love the PvP. Again, take it out of the random cycle. hell, I'd be happy to wait hours in que to do an old-school AV with people who feel the same.
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03/05/2012 09:26 PMPosted by Goldenhoof
It's also extremely frustrating that rogues basically can't be peeled off the target they are on except by the opportunistically casted Mind Control.


WTB skill that keeps people from peeling me off of targets. If there are any rogues out there who can tell me what I am doing wrong that I am sometimes CC'd or slowed in PvP, please help me out.

I just wish I was that good and had never had my !@# handed to me by a lock fear-dotting or a shaman who frost-shocked me to death or a boomkin who knocked me back, CC'd me and pwned my face.
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85 Human Death Knight
5600


IMO, first fix to try with this is to give all CC a shared DR.


This this this this THIS.
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85 Night Elf Druid
5745
I disagree about CC. Crowd Control is one of those intuitive things that require a player to make active choices about what he's doing. Some CC is spammable, while other CCs have CDs, and all of it shares DR categories with each other, except in rare circumstances.

Furthermore, most CCs are dispellable. The combination of all these factors turns CC into a skill cap fight. Skilled healers will intuitively dispel CCs the majority of a fight, while a good player will CC at the key moments where he can pressure the other team effectively.

In this regard, CC vs Dispel is a good game mechanic in that it gives both healers and dpsers something else to do beside spam damage/healing abilities.

I don't think it's fair to criticize the current design of CCs when the average player can't be bothered to intuitively utilize them in a skilled manner.

Chances are if you are sitting in CCs all day, the healers in your group need to wake up and push the dispel button more.
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03/06/2012 10:43 AMPosted by Baeloro
Chances are if you are sitting in CCs all day, the healers in your group need to wake up and push the dispel button more.


And, I still hold that a lot of what bothers people about CC is when they are being focused, and less CC wouldn't really save them then, just make them feel less helpless as they die just as fast.

Sure, if 3 rogues hit another player at once they will be, more or less, stunlocked. But, if the rogues forgo stuns, the other player will maybe live 3 seconds longer at best. And it should be that way. There is no reason any one single player should be able to solo-survive a 3-dps focus.

And, TBH, if someone comes into a BG with 100k hp, I can kill them before CS wears off. That's 4 seconds, and that's not skill or being stunlocked by an OP class, that's all gear.

And, if people don't like rogues now, I can tell you, without CC, the only people who'd be doing about the same against rogues as now would be other melee. I don't CC you to get behind you. Hell, unless you are a warrior, an enhance shaman or DK, I don't even CC you to reduce the damage you are doing to me. I CC you to keep you from getting away or, with ferals, to waste your CD and rage-starve you. If they nerf CC across the board, you aren't getting away, and I'll just have to deal with that feral being able to have enough rage to FR while I run tight little circles and spam backstab.
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85 Human Paladin
9250
03/05/2012 09:08 PMPosted by Takeru
I enjoy Twin Peaks. I really like the layout, as well as the LoS obstacles mid-field. One problem with WSG is that, as a healer, range has open-season on me. I can't hide, I can't do my job efficiently. I always found 'wide-open' BG's to be horrendously biased towards DPS.


I have to agree with this big-time. The mid-field in WSG is big time biased towards range dps.
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