Update on Retribution Paladin Bug

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85 Human Warlock
8365
Just take a look at worldoflogs and you'll see all of the ret exploiters in normal and heroic DS...

This is ridiculous.


It's over. It was just one night, and Bliz has (very graciously, IMO) admitted fault. No major damage was done, apparently.

Just let it go already. :)
90 Dwarf Paladin
13855
02/02/2012 12:21 PMPosted by Umbrastraza
There have been many accounts of players exploiting the bug by self-report. From what I've personally seen, it included both endgame play; PvE boss kills and PvP arena rating. Both cases should be fixed by Blizzard to ensure level fields of play. Thanks.


Just take a look at any World of Logs ranking - ret pallies have destroyed what used to be a "fair" ranking of classes' DPS.


WoL will simply go through and prune them out, just like they do when someone decides to doctor a combat report.



02/02/2012 12:24 PMPosted by Wynnhammer
Sounds like a major exploit to me, why aren't they getting 10 day bans too? Also what ever happened to that kid that used a Martin's Fury to clear Ulduar when he knew it was exploiting.


How exactly is it an exploit when it is based off your normal seal and talent spec? It was caused by SoT triggering SoC and SoC triggering SoT. There is no way a ret could avoid it.

And the cases for blizzard to remove loot, achievements or ratings will have to be pretty extreme. A guild who was 7/8 in DS last week and went 8/8 this week you can't really touch.

A PuG that slapped together 6 rets, 2 tanks and 2 healers and wen't 8/8 HM DS or FL on the other hand will probably be in trouble.

And in PvP it will be nigh on impossible to do anything about this.
85 Human Death Knight
7795
Just take a look at worldoflogs and you'll see all of the ret exploiters in normal and heroic DS...

This is ridiculous.


If a bug massively inflates a spec's DPS, that's what you'd see from both the exploiters and the innocent raiders doing their normal thing.

Some would have been exploiting, but you'll see that only by finding out their raid stacked Rets. Others were just the raid's Ret, who comes along every week and did nothing different this time.

Those lists at World of Logs don't show guilt. They show exactly what you'd expect from a bug like this. Look deeper before crying wolf.
90 Pandaren Shaman
15040
In this case i don't think there should have bans (unless it was obviously a blatant exploit such as a raid of 80% Pallies).

But i do agree that all titles, gear, achievements and progressions that happened with people partying or raiding with paladins should be removed.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
5400
02/02/2012 12:24 PMPosted by Wynnhammer
Sounds like a major exploit to me, why aren't they getting 10 day bans too? Also what ever happened to that kid that used a Martin's Fury to clear Ulduar when he knew it was exploiting.


The problem here is that yes, people who abused this bug to get high PVP ratings or complete heroic raids need to be punished. However, we all know that the majority of people aren't asking for that. They want EVERY PALADIN banned. They ran into a ret paladin in an unrated BG, got stomped, and now they're overreacting. Well, not really overreacting that much, but you know... Anyway, what I meant is that these posts aren't made by people who want actual exploiters to be punished, they're made by people who are sore about getting smashed in BGs and the such. Not that they shouldn't be, but they do need to get over it.
90 Human Paladin
6610
There have been many accounts of players exploiting the bug by self-report. From what I've personally seen, it included both endgame play; PvE boss kills and PvP arena rating. Both cases should be fixed by Blizzard to ensure level fields of play. Thanks.


Just take a look at any World of Logs ranking - ret pallies have destroyed what used to be a "fair" ranking of classes' DPS.


Take it up with WoL?

~Sorry I was late to the game. People have already mentioned this.
Edited by Foibles on 2/2/2012 12:41 PM PST
Good call blizz..
However after hearing this im now sad i didnt play my pally and feel like a wow god!
90 Undead Rogue
13035
Look at all the paladin's acting as if this was hardly a mishap and that people would've killed bosses/achieved arena ratings without it anyways...lol
90 Human Death Knight
10575


From the post and their comments towards the end, it's obvious they are going to be taking specific actions towards those who were excessively abusing it to gain things they shouldn't have. Whether they will remove what they gained or just ban them for a short period remains to be seen.

Just need to let them make their decisions and hope it's a good one =P


Exactly. It'll likely be case by case and whatever they do will not be made public as they do not disclose action taken on people's accounts. So people should not expect a witch-hunt. Appropriate action will be taken based on the circumstances.


Nice feel good post; however, based on the OP they do not appear to be taking action for the most part. "Excessive" gives no information at all to the playerbase on what kind of behavior will be tolerated from exploiting the bug and what will not. I and no others are asking for individual decisions however, this does involve all of us. We should know what they are planning on doing, otherwise the integrity of this game just took an awful hit. I'm talking about guild progression and arena team MMR, those areas of the game that were advanced with a retribution paladin during the period of exploitation should be rolled back. Its the only fair thing to do for the whole.
90 Dwarf Paladin
13855
To be clear, we have no current plans to take action against players who experienced this bug last night


So does that mean players that have killed heroic bosses such as spine and madness using this bug keep their achievements?



How does this bug help against spine?
90 Night Elf Druid
13830
Last night <Modest> on Kilrogg also took realm first Heroic Deathwing kill. I wonder if they were a paladin-heavy group. Grats to them either way.


It appears it was a guild-heroic achievement and based on a quick filter through the armory, I only found two paladins in their group, one being ret while the other holy. Their guild activity shows they are very active and had been working on that encounter for quite some time; in fact they've had numerous prior HM kills including spine prior to this.

Blizzard is the only ones with the data to know whether it did give them any unfair advantage in the fight or any other heroic modes they sought after in the last 24-48 hours.

Based on what I see, I highly doubt they exploited the bug but it was just based on their sheer dedication as a guild to overcome that final hurdle. Hats off to them!
90 Draenei Paladin
16995
02/02/2012 12:30 PMPosted by Deathshatil
Problem is the "bug" was caused by a normal part of Ret's buff/rotation. If it was a bug caused by a Ret using say Seal of Light I would agree with you.

I think we just found someone here.
One less exploiter for blizzard to search and ban.


Calm down and quit crying because the bad Paladin ripped your face off. This bug was caused by using a standard rotation, the normal player was doing it completely by accident through no control of their own.

This was on Blizzard, not the player.

They've already said they will be looking into extreme cases, which I imagine will pertain to guilds pushing progression with it and PVP Teams pushing rating with it.

So get over it.
85 Human Warlock
8365
Nice feel good post; however, based on the OP they do not appear to be taking action for the most part. "Excessive" gives no information at all to the playerbase on what kind of behavior will be tolerated from exploiting the bug and what will not. I and no others are asking for individual decisions however, this does involve all of us. We should know what they are planning on doing, otherwise the integrity of this game just took an awful hit. I'm talking about guild progression and arena team MMR, those areas of the game that were advanced with a retribution paladin during the period of exploitation should be rolled back. Its the only fair thing to do for the whole.


Bliz THEMSELVES are taking fault and admitting responsibility for this. Personally, I think this is the best move they could make and it shows that the company has some integrity. I couldn't be more pleased by their way of going about this. It's not even that much of a big deal. People need to calm down over this. It's totally over now.

Just take a deep breath and chill.
Edited by Nephthys on 2/2/2012 12:40 PM PST
90 Pandaren Shaman
15040



So does that mean players that have killed heroic bosses such as spine and madness using this bug keep their achievements?



How does this bug help against spine?


no need to barrel roll if you can inta kill the amalgs, and one hit would cut the tentacles grip.

that and the fact that you'll hardly need burst on the tendon.
Edited by Khaerys on 2/2/2012 12:39 PM PST
90 Draenei Hunter
18195
So, hold on. The LFR exploit, an exploit caused by a bug from Blizzard not fully testing their LFR results in 10 day bans to really screw over top guilds during hard mode progression. I would wager that there are more Paladins than there are guilds that exploited the LFR.

Ret exploit, an exploit caused by a bug from Blizzard not fully testing their hotfix pretty much results in nothing. Let's think about this, shall we?

LFR bug caused: Nothing. Since everything was rolled back. What could have happened? The guilds that used it may have had the absolute tiniest advantage in Heroic mode, made even more miniscule since the guilds that ran characters through LFR legitimately probably got similar results regarding 4 sets/trinkets barring some poor RNG.

Ret bug caused: Potential ruin for rated arenas and possibly battlegrounds, as well as maybe even obliterating the server first competition (you may not care about it, but the guilds competing for it do). The race for world first may be over, but the fact that any arena team with a ret on it skyrocketed last night whereas they may not have been able to before is ridiculous.

Even more shocking to me, is that guilds who may not have had the ability to kill Ultraxion HM two days ago, went 8/8 HM IN A SINGLE NIGHT. Why is this even remotely okay? How do you deal out such severe and unnecessary punishment to an exploit that truly would have amounted to nothing, but do NOTHING for an exploit that will have much greater repercussions than a handful of guilds raiding for 24 hours a day to see a world first.

Make. Up. Your. Mind. Punish the exploiters, or don't. You banned Martin's Fury incident when it was YOUR OWN GM that accidentally allowed it to happen. Did he obviously know what was wrong? Yep. Did he use it? Yep. Do you think your playerbase so naive that people who see almost 10 times their DPS think it was a minor buff?

This exploit was *EXPLOITED* beyond belief over the short time it existed. If you do not at least remove the gear/achievements/rating from every single player that used this exploit, you will have no possible argument to take action against future exploiters.

Think of what you do give out bans for. Exploiting terrain, botting, item duping, gold buying. Think of that, and then ask yourself which has more effect on your game? You didn't ban the MMR exploiters last season, so I doubt you will now ban these exploiters, but I cannot express in mere words how disappointed I am.
90 Draenei Paladin
11905
There have been many accounts of players exploiting the bug by self-report. From what I've personally seen, it included both endgame play; PvE boss kills and PvP arena rating. Both cases should be fixed by Blizzard to ensure level fields of play. Thanks.

Edit: I don't believe "excessive" abuse should be the line drawn in this case, as clearly players were given awards in both areas of the game that matter. Protect the integrity of the game people, remove awards unfairly given from a bug.

Edit2: I don't think punishing players would be necessary. I just think Blizzard should go through the logs and remove personal and guild achievements and gear that was awarded on account of clearly broken game mechanics for that time period.

Agreed. For example,
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-dk0ge78dc9n6s24q/sum/damageDone/?s=95&e=277
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-dk0ge78dc9n6s24q/sum/damageDone/?s=5407&e=5684
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-5skgd0juad8u4wvs/sum/damageDone/?s=824&e=1092
The armory seems to reflect that the people involved used the bug to get a few new heroic boss kills. Pretty cheap imo
90 Draenei Paladin
16995
02/02/2012 12:40 PMPosted by Vandenz
So, hold on. The LFR exploit, an exploit caused by a bug from Blizzard not fully testing their LFR results in 10 day bans to really screw over top guilds during hard mode progression.


Why yes, yes it did. Because that wasn't something that was triggered by accident by doing what you'd normally do, it was something players found out and then intentionally used to artificially and unfairly advance their progression.

Blizzard said they will investigate any extreme cases with this bug, that will probably include PVE and PVP progression.


All you people need to get down off your little pulpits of indignation and self righteousness.
MVP
90 Worgen Warlock
10465


Exactly. It'll likely be case by case and whatever they do will not be made public as they do not disclose action taken on people's accounts. So people should not expect a witch-hunt. Appropriate action will be taken based on the circumstances.


Nice feel good post; however, based on the OP they do not appear to be taking action for the most part. "Excessive" gives no information at all to the playerbase on what kind of behavior will be tolerated from exploiting the bug and what will not. I and no others are asking for individual decisions however, this does involve all of us. We should know what they are planning on doing, otherwise the integrity of this game just took an awful hit. I'm talking about guild progression and arena team MMR, those areas of the game that were advanced with a retribution paladin during the period of exploitation should be rolled back. Its the only fair thing to do for the whole.


Zarhym's post basically says:

"We're not banning paladins just for logging in and using their rotations. But we are going to investigate extreme cases."

If you feel someone exploited during that period, report them and it will be investigated as I'm sure they're looking into other cases.

Just because you can't see what's happening and they didn't outright say, "We're smacking everyone who did it with 72 hour bans and removing all their stuff" doesn't mean nothing is happening. They don't owe you a list of people they are banning and why. They told you they recognized a problem, fixed it, and are investigating people who abused it.
Theres plenty of people on these forums admitting to blowing through Arenas.
But I'm not really surprised.
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