Update on Retribution Paladin Bug

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90 Human Death Knight
0
[quote][quote]

Zarhym's post basically says:

"We're not banning paladins just for logging in and using their rotations. But we are going to investigate extreme cases."

If you feel someone exploited during that period, report them and it will be investigated as I'm sure they're looking into other cases.

Just because you can't see what's happening and they didn't outright say, "We're smacking everyone who did it with 72 hour bans and removing all their stuff" doesn't mean nothing is happening. They don't owe you a list of people they are banning and why. They told you they recognized a problem, fixed it, and are investigating people who abused it.


Alona. Despite me explicitly saying that I don't want a list of people, or wanting them banned you used that in your rebuttal. That sucks, and I would've expected better from a MVP, if you want to rebuttal to somebody besides me then don't quote me before typing your response.

Secondly, I shouldn't have to investigate who precisely exploited this bug. There have been countless self-reports on the official and non-official forums of people exploiting the bug. I harbor no ill feelings towards them, but I feel like Blizzard should ante up, and draw a more fair line on what is going to be taken back. As it stands now, they aren't planning on removing ret paladins PvE / PvP progression. That's ridiculous, this was a game-breaking bug. They should be clarifying in more precise terms how they plan on fixing it.

They shouldn't be banning all retribution paladins that were playing during that time. But in a perfect world, nobody's progress that was unfairly given due to the bug should be retained. Blizzard doesn't appear to even be trying to rectify that.
100 Human Priest
9045
@Zarhym You dont need evidence when you do arenas and 12 out of 15 games you face a ret/healer ret/dps even ret/ret comps which can completely out damage any heal. You say it wasn't abused, well my friend you need to recheck.
100 Night Elf Druid
18525
02/02/2012 12:54 PMPosted by Dyná
So, the logic everyone expects us to follow is that if a bug accidentally makes it into production servers that increases a class' dps, they should not play the game until it's fixed?

That isn't what is being advised. It's when you know your class has an unfair advantage and you use that advantage to gain something that you would not have otherwise been capable of doing so under like circumstances. That's exploiting a program bug and against the rules.
85 Troll Shaman
9625
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you turned around and said "My bad guys, its our fault." I mean.. it could only be your fault... but instead of saying "Ooops how did that happen?" you "manned up" and took fault. Bravo.

But...

I can't possibly begin to put into words how frustrated I am with Blizzard not taking any action. Recently my guild had not been able to recruit for 25 man content because of the changes to format that have been implemented so we switched to casually screwing around in 10 mans, progressing that way a couple days a week instead of 4.

The race to maintain ranking across the US and across my realm has always been something we have strived for being top 200-300 in several past tiers. Once we started pushing back into Dragon Soul we went 4/8H Pre-Nerf with some pretty rough raid comps(such as using 3 rogues because thats all we had to fill slots) and regained some of our previous ranking by jumping to around 450-500 from 1700 we were at while pulling together our 10 man group. Now in a day we've lost any hope we have of keeping a decent ranking because exploits are going unpunished.

There are guilds who did 8/8N DS and are now several heroics deep. Theres a TON of ret paladin logs on WoL (if the admins haven't sifted through and removed them like do for other exploits) and with a little diligence WoW CMs/GMs/Devs can take look in the logs the week prior for some of these "top ranking" guilds and guilds who got heroic encounters they shouldn't have and see if they were using a Ret Paladin or two (or in some cases 3+) in prior weeks.

Any and ALL guilds abusing this for Realm First achievements or World/Regional rankings should be penalized and had any achievements and loot rolled back. I don't give a damn about a ban, just remove the crap they got while at a SEVERE advantage over the rest of the world.


Edit: Not to mention the pvp problems. I don't even wanna get into that. Plenty of my friends sent whisper after whisper complaining about getting rolled in arenas so they just stopped queuing.
Edited by Canibehealz on 2/2/2012 1:06 PM PST
85 Human Paladin
13740
02/02/2012 12:14 PMPosted by Zarhym
To be clear, we have no current plans to take action against players who experienced this bug last night unless we come across any extreme cases. The error was ours and we haven’t seen any evidence -- so far -- of players excessively exploiting the bug. We reserve the right to take action if we do find evidence of players crossing the line to repeatedly exploit this bug for major in-game advantages.

Thank you, Zarhym, for clearing this up. I will say that your posts (very) early this morning did cause a bit of confusion and had a lot of Paladins, myself included, wondering if their account might face negative action for continuing to play in almost any PvE or PvP content. Perhaps this could be a good learning experience on everyone's part, since myself and others started to become very concerned that we could face negative consequences for simply playing the game in a manner that is typical for us, yet significantly easier due to something out of our control.

For every Ret who scrambled into arena, Dragon Soul, or whatever, there were ones like me who found it a troublesome thought to even continue playing, at least in any max-level content. Reviewing the Terms of Use was not much help because that particular section seems rather vague and open to interpretation, as I am sure is intended and necessary for the vast majority of the cases out there. That this particular bug was so widespread and also not due to abnormal or abusive gameplay on any affected player's part made this one very tricky to figure out. In retrospect, it seems a bit silly to worry that one's account might be suspended or even banned for issues out of their control, but at the time, it seemed a very real and palpable possibility.
85 Draenei Shaman
4765

Im willing to lose all my work on my four toons i ran though everything this week! I know about losing stuff but what was done was too extreme to let it pass! This game is all about who gets what and has what! If I could do 1mill DPS on my rouge and clear hard modes and get my shards and stuff I would expect people to complain! This is a matter of balance! Now the game is all out of whack this this needs a rollback plain and simple!


How in the world is this so extreme that it would warrant millions and millions of people getting all of their work rolled back? You're trollfu is terrible and you should feel terrible.
88 Tauren Shaman
8220
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/arena/tichondrius/2v2/Smoke%20N%20Pancake/

ban inc
95 Blood Elf Paladin
16140
How exactly is it an exploit when it is based off your normal seal and talent spec? It was caused by SoT triggering SoC and SoC triggering SoT. There is no way a ret could avoid it.

And the cases for blizzard to remove loot, achievements or ratings will have to be pretty extreme. A guild who was 7/8 in DS last week and went 8/8 this week you can't really touch.

A PuG that slapped together 6 rets, 2 tanks and 2 healers and wen't 8/8 HM DS or FL on the other hand will probably be in trouble.

And in PvP it will be nigh on impossible to do anything about this.


Mowing down that night's first trash pack, the first pull on a boss, or 2 shotting someone in arena I can understand, but to continue on now that you know something is different is wrong.

It is an exploit when people know they shouldn't be doing 200k dps and then continue to kill things after they "accidentally" killed something 10x faster than they should have.
Edited by Wynnhammer on 2/2/2012 1:14 PM PST
100 Night Elf Druid
20525
*Looks at all the people saying the bug got exploited a ton*

*Looks at all the paladins telling people to QQ more*

Yep, typical bug post in WoW.

Edit: I do not think that people doing their normal raid should "cancel" raid just because their paladin was doing ridiculous damage, and those groups probably won't see any action taken. It's the groups that stacked paladins and obviously exploited this bug as much as possible that should have action taken.
Edited by Aleros on 2/2/2012 1:11 PM PST
87 Worgen Druid
9905
02/02/2012 01:05 PMPosted by Naros
So, the logic everyone expects us to follow is that if a bug accidentally makes it into production servers that increases a class' dps, they should not play the game until it's fixed?

That isn't what is being advised. It's when you know your class has an unfair advantage and you use that advantage to gain something that you would not have otherwise been capable of doing so under like circumstances. That's exploiting a program bug and against the rules.


So, I'll amend my statement.

If a bug accidentally makes it into production servers that increases a class' dps and they are aware of their higher than normal dps, they should not play the game until it's fixed?

The only condition that needs to be met for this to become an exploit is "I went and raided like I always do" or "I went and did arena like I always do."

I agree that some people went overboard and tried making all ret teams and so forth, however, if you're a ret paladin, the general feeling in this thread would have been to not play, because the sheer act of "playing your character" resulted in "exploitation of a bug."

I feel sorry for anyone who got banned who was simply logging in and playing as they always do.

88 Tauren Shaman
8220
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/arena/tichondrius/2v2/Smoke%20N%20Pancake/

R1 double ret, team started last night.

Obvious exploiters are obvious.

If nothing else, delete these teams.
Wtbrollback.
85 Human Paladin
7275
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/arena/tichondrius/2v2/Smoke%20N%20Pancake/

ban inc


I lol'd

But seriously to all those making more complaints about this. A lot of guilds take a ret pally or two in their runs away. The exploit did not change so please stop whining about it.
88 Tauren Shaman
8220
02/02/2012 01:12 PMPosted by Dyná

That isn't what is being advised. It's when you know your class has an unfair advantage and you use that advantage to gain something that you would not have otherwise been capable of doing so under like circumstances. That's exploiting a program bug and against the rules.


So, I'll amend my statement.

If a bug accidentally makes it into production servers that increases a class' dps and they are aware of their higher than normal dps, they should not play the game until it's fixed?

The only condition that needs to be met for this to become an exploit is "I went and raided like I always do" or "I went and did arena like I always do."

I agree that some people went overboard and tried making all ret teams and so forth, however, if you're a ret paladin, the general feeling in this thread would have been to not play, because the sheer act of "playing your character" resulted in "exploitation of a bug."

I feel sorry for anyone who got banned who was simply logging in and playing as they always do.


K so 10 people are robbing a store, you see them, and it's justifiable just because those other people are doing it
90 Human Paladin
6595
I simply played other characters last night. I knew this one was bugged and did not use it because of such. I knew Blizzard would hotfix this quickly and knew I could get in trouble for doing so. Or at least I thought I knew. Now I learn that instead of doing the right thing, I should have used the bug as much as I possibly could have as there will be no punishment or a slap on the wrist for doing so.

Frankly I am disappointed. Anyone playing Ret last night knew damn well there was something very wrong with the damage being done and if they spent the evening using it then they deserve at least a temp ban for doing so and those that intentionally stacked arena/rbgs and raids to exploit the bug should be banned permanently.
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