Will raid, but not join guild.

58 Worgen Death Knight
100
Do any other guilds have this problem?

Recruiting is at an all-time low for my main server. It's pathetic. It takes days to find any sort of interest in raiding.

We have two raiders, close friends to other members in our core. They declined joining the guild. I just accepted it, because I'd been banging my head against the keyboard for weeks on end trying to recruit members. It doesn't personally bug me that bad, but my only question is 'why?' I feel that after a while, the perks of being in a level 25 guild just don't make up for anything.

It just blows because every other few weeks, one of the guild raiders will be ill or unable to attend and the raid won't count as a guild group.
Edited by Cherish on 2/2/2012 10:08 AM PST
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85 Blood Elf Mage
5360
This is a problem for us, too. We actually had someone join our guild to raid with us, then dropped out and said she'd raid with us but not belong to the guild anymore. I don't personally raid, but as guild leader, it bothers me, too.

Our raiders downed Ultraxion last week, but it didn't count, because they'd pugged too many people for it to be considered a guild group.

That being said, if you'd consider a server/faction change... ;-)
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
6935
02/01/2012 07:01 PMPosted by Cherish
my only question is 'why?'


Have you asked them that question?
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90 Night Elf Druid
17045
We had a guy that raided with us for the entirety of t12 who would never join our guild.

The firs raid week of DS he asked if the offer still stood to join and has been in our guild since.

Of course, he was a rogue...lol.

Other than him, we've never had that issue come up.

As a note...when we originally asked him to join and he said no he was in a social/casual guild. He'd been in that guild for a VERY long time and had many friends there. We never pushed the issue but let him know he was welcome anytime he was ready. When he was ready (for whatever his reasons were) he joined. It could have been because of the Rogue quest line, but as he's the only rogue in the group he would have gotten that stuff regardless.
Edited by Malorei on 2/1/2012 8:39 PM PST
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90 Draenei Death Knight
13815
02/01/2012 07:01 PMPosted by Cherish
Do any other guilds have this problem?


I had someone who was GM of another guild during Firelands eventually come on board for DS. It is less than ideal to have someone not in the guild, but it is better than pugging for sure. A stable team is more important to progression than an all-guild team. However, it is also reasonable to require raiders to join the guild as well, as it makes it easier to maintain a guild group and creates a better environment when you are not raiding. It can never hurt to just ask what is holding them back from joining the guild.

Regarding Ultraxion, you should log your fights and post the link to worldoflogs.com in the Dungeon and Raid forum - that is the best place to get gameplay advice on encounters
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58 Worgen Death Knight
100
Just to note, my guild is level 7. ^^;

After we downed Ultraxion (yay!) ((and the only issue boiled down to correct timing of Heroic Will)) we kind of discussed the fact that it would be respectable if they joined, but we're not going to push on it.

Thanks for the advice, all.
Feel free to let the board die now.
Thanks again.
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If people have been raiding since the tier was released, and they're well geared etc.. ie the people you want, they probably aren't as interested in guild hopping. At the same time if you lower your standards and get people who's best gear set is t12/HoT gear, there's a higher likelihood you'll end up with bads that cand handle heroic will properly.


Wait, here we have a nice, relaxed semi-casual normal mode guild and you're saying that they should only aim to recruit experienced, highly geared raiders with all the achievements, etc.? If you're saying even this sort of guild shouldn't recruit inexperienced people then how are inexperienced people supposed to get a chance to prove they're not "bads"?
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90 Human Death Knight
14835
I'd do that simply because I now finally have my own guild which I don't intend to leave. Being in anyone else's guild means you have to put up with whatever they think is right - and sometimes you just don't like it or agree with it but have to take it or leave it.
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85 Human Warrior
8610
I don't mind taking non-guild members on my raids, and will continue to do so for as long as I need to, but I'm always very clear with these players--their spots will be taken by guild members as soon as we have guild members in place to take those spots. The only way for them to guarantee their continued invitation to my raid is by joining my guild.
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90 Troll Druid
13160
It's happened to us occasionally, that we will need to recruit someone and people will want to raid, but not join the guild. My answer to them is all the same. If you aren't in the guild, you're nothing more than a PUG. I may use them in a pinch, but I make sure they know that I am recruiting a full time raider who will be in the guild.
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58 Worgen Death Knight
100
Do you think that there's usually no good reason when people refuse to join the guild?

I was kind of persuaded at first at the thought of someone coming in with a Mass Rez/Summon, and we only really use the summon because the rez is of no use to someone who can't survive a wipe. Now that I think of it more though, I'd definitely sacrifice it so that no matter what, each week we would be counting our raids as a guild group.

We've been lenient on the subject because these are close friends of raiders.

Would it be right to start insisting that while continuing to recruit, if I find a player who can fit the schedule, role, and was willing to be in the guild, that I would be taking said player instead?
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85 Human Warrior
8610
Do you think that there's usually no good reason when people refuse to join the guild?

I was kind of persuaded at first at the thought of someone coming in with a Mass Rez/Summon, and we only really use the summon because the rez is of no use to someone who can't survive a wipe. Now that I think of it more though, I'd definitely sacrifice it so that no matter what, each week we would be counting our raids as a guild group.

We've been lenient on the subject because these are close friends of raiders.

Would it be right to start insisting that while continuing to recruit, if I find a player who can fit the schedule, role, and was willing to be in the guild, that I would be taking said player instead?

Yea, there are definitely certain players who are essentially pointless to have Mass Rez, like warriors for example (unless you're a night elf). If you don't have Shadowmeld, Invisibility, Vanish, Feign Death, etc., you're not going to be alive to summon everyone.

The summon is nice, but honestly, I'd really rather have a group where no one has a summon. As it works now, we'll have 8 players in the group, trying to get 2 pugs, I'm in SW recruiting, and I get 7 consecutive summon requests. The group isn't full... and now everyone's summon is on cooldown, good job guys.



But the other thing of it is, if you're raiding with a guild group, you're getting guild XP. You get a big guild XP bonus for the first boss you down as a guild group each week, but even after the first, you continue to get a nice amount of XP per raid boss. And that can help your guild get levels faster to get those perks. Moreover, when you down bosses as a guild group, you get credit on the achievement and on wowprogress, so you can make claims like 7/8, or 2/8H or whatever, and be able to make verifiable claims like this makes recruiting more members easier.
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85 Human Priest
4680
As someone who is in exactly this situation with my two raid groups perhaps I can add some perspective.

I raid lead with a newly formed guild who I was helping fill a healer slot with as they recruited, the former raid leader rage quit one night and I assumed the position as the most experienced person in the raid for that tier. This temporary position has transitioned into a more permanent one that has been successful and enjoyable for all. The guild continues to get it's guild bonus for having at least 8/10 people as members of the guild and we have moved from 2/8 to 5/8 in 2 quick weeks due to our raid members having excellent mechanical focus. I enjoy the 5-8 hours I week I spend with the other 9-12 people (depending on who shows up both nights) but I have no interest in joining them full time. I don't need their guild perks, as they supply them, I don't need green chat as anyone I want to talk to is on my realid list anyways. I have my own guild for a personal guild bank (as well has notority for it's name) that allows me to easily access stuff across my various alts.

The other group I raid with I've raided with for months and am not a raid leader in. Once again I thoroughly enjoy raiding with them and do other things with them as well, but once again I do not need the guild perks, we have a private channel made to simulate gchat (it's actually our healer channel for our raid which we do all our raid cooldown announcements in).

The long and short of it is this, I'm a member of your raid. I'm that guy who brings his own consumables, never needs help with mats or whatever if I was a girl I'd call myself an "Independant Woman". I'm loyal to your raid, I'll help whenever or with whatever I can to get you raid to kill bosses, but I'm not a member of your guild. I don't want to be a member of your guild for various reasons, there might be people there I won't mesh with on a semi-permanent basis - they're likely not even raiders. I'm quite choosy with who I associate myself with in the game, I don't arena with the typical douchey dudes even if it would get me my arena weapons. I decline offers from higher ranked guilds because they have certain trade chat trolls that I don't paticularly like. I'm not saying I'm typical of all of these people, some may be complete flakes who you don't want in your guild anyways, and you don't want them in your raid group. It could also be that they enjoy raiding with you but actually don't want to be part of your guild, for a number of reasons, my personal ones I've listed here.
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90 Human Paladin
0
I don't bring non-guild members on a permanent basis to raids. I will pug until I can recruit a guild member for the spot.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9070
Pugging is the new way to raid.
Set up a dedicated core of puggers and that's how it will work in the future. To raid within the confines of a guild is outdated.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
15730
Nothing new about it.

I've been leading a non-guild raid for ages. Our core has been together since Vanilla
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90 Troll Mage
12065
I'm actually in a situation right now where I am that person. I'm in a guild with IRL friends but there's obviously differences in our skill levels. I've always wanted to do heroic raids but they can't and I don't want to leave the guild because I actually know these people. Anybody interested in seeing how a frost mage raids? lol
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