World of Warcraft®

It really gets at me to see all of the hate posts that people create. Obviously not everybody is going to be 100% satisfied with anything, especially a game that is played by such a broad spectrum of people, but all of the negative claims about Blizzard and poor comments on WoW itself get really annoying. It's quite obvious there is still a large sum of people that still enjoy playing WoW.

I include myself in that group of people. Of course there have been things I personally don't enjoy but overall I think Blizzard has done a great job with Cataclysm and WoW, and I really look forward to Mists of Pandaria. After the big show at Blizzcon, and getting to play it quite a bit, I could only get more excited. I, personally, can't wait to see what MoP will be like, and from a dedicated raider point of view can't wait to see the new dungeons and raids. I give a round of applause to the Blizzard Developers for the great work they've done with the game in the past.

So I guess haters will hate, and they will be loud about it, but I like to show some appreciation for the people that make such a good game and keep so many people playing.

*snip* Also, pet battles look awesome.

Great post, but I gotta agree with you on that. It sounds like they're adding a ton more mounts too (inferring from another blue post) for us to collect. I'm a grown !@# man and not that into pokemon, but I'll admit it looks interesting and I'll definitely give it a shot.

02/01/2012 07:46 PMPosted by Vorps

Too bad recently released content is in direct contradiction of your theory.

More of a hypothesis than a theory, but I think MoP will be the turning point. 4.3 is the end of the Post-BC era.

hypothesis = educated guess
Theory = the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another

Same thing

02/02/2012 12:42 PMPosted by Rolling

I don't think it really matters. I mean, it can be slow, it can fast, but once you hit cap, you've hit cap.

It matters a great deal, Cata leveling was so fast people were at max within hours.
A fresh 80 taking the Hero's Board quest to Hyjal can be done 40% of 80 -81 in little over an hour, that's way way too fast.
In 1 hour you have completed 40% of 1/5th of the content that is supposed to last over a year.

If they go with the fast levelling for MOP they had better have at least 3 times the end content they had for Cata.

1.7 million lost subs happened for a reason, people got bored because of how quickly they reached end game, only to not have enough content to keep them busy.
Unless of course you think running the same 2 dungeons over and over and over is good design.

I'm going to have to ding you here. People didn't level too fast and get bored and leave. People hit artificially high walls going from the quest gear --> heroic instance and then the heroic instance --> t11 content. Instead of it being a gradual hill climb...it went from a nice flat level field to a mountain path. Early heroics were beyond painful as nobody has gear and healers were OOMing every few trash pulls AND CC was way too mandatory. Even worse than the early heroics was the jump between heroics and t11 raids. At least for 10 man, the fights were far too overtuned for what were supposed to be entry level raids. Blizzard, understandably, had a goal to try and force the gamers to give up the bad habits they formed in Wrath and adjust to a more "strategic" style of fighting instead of relying on trigger reflexes. However, they never truly delivered on that goal in early boss fights. Most every boss fight pass/fail mechanics (which was supposed to be done away with) and required near perfect performance from all 10 people. Granted, 25 mans were designed to be a little more forgiving but not by a huge margin.

So in a nutshell, Blizzard shot themselves in the foot by making the difficulty too high and shafted a large % of the playerbase from making reasonable progress after the heroic dungeon point. LFR, while not a perfect system, has a lot of potential to help bridge this glaring gap in the future but it certainly didn't help in the t11 and t12 era.

Fact - People play to have fun and make progress...by and large people want good gear even if many don't feel they "deserve" it. Many people don't mind a good challenge but want it to be reasonable. Blizzard has certainly got a lot better at this with DS (judging by the number of people clearing it, even on normal) than they did with t11 and t12 and they certainly are saying the right things for MoP...lets just hope they deliver on their promises.

02/02/2012 01:29 PMPosted by Zarhym

It's 7 years old after all. We're not going to reinvent the wheel

This may have been taken slightly out of context, but I think this is my new favorite blue quote ever.

02/02/2012 08:31 PMPosted by Sýr

While inspecting MoP and recent posts of blues, namely Zarhym, it's becoming more and more apparent that MoP is looking to shatter the status quo with WoW. Blizzard is moving away from listening to the populist whining that can apparently never be quelled

Yea heaven forbid they actually do something popular with their customers.

Too bad that's just more of the same old tired Blizz we have had since CATA launched.

They do listen. People whine, and cry, and QQ, so they buff and debuff and buff and debuff. Then those same people whine, cry, and QQ again, usually about the same thing. They listen and make changes, people complain about the changes, they make more, people complain more.

Here on the forums, the community would rather cry and complain then actually try and play the game

I hope MoP turns out well, I'd like to try the new class... so... can we have some more character slots per realm please?

02/02/2012 12:17 PMPosted by Dunkelweizen

Blizzard = innovation. I wouldn't put it past them.

Rehash of Pokemon is definitely a sure sign of quality innovation by Blizzard.

oh get over yourself, everything gets an idea from soemthing, thats how we advance...if everything had to be a compeltely out-of-the-blue idea, we would still be in like 1700 or something... to evolve, we must take current ideas and make them better

They do listen. People whine, and cry, and QQ, so they buff and debuff and buff and debuff. Then those same people whine, cry, and QQ again, usually about the same thing. They listen and make changes, people complain about the changes, they make more, people complain more.

Here on the forums, the community would rather cry and complain then actually try and play the game

This is actually a misconception, though it is an understandable one. As people point out, most only have something to say when they have a complaint. In doing so should people "whine and QQ" and something is changed, what actually happens is those people are generally happy - but now a different section of the community may be irritated and start "whining and QQ'ing".

It is the unfortunate side effect of attempting to please too many different people with a population base the size of a Country - you are never going to please them all.

Cata unfortunately introduced too many changes that contradicted each other and at worst worked together in "mutual destruction". For example, many cite one of the issues with the difficulty of Cata at launch and yet this would not have been so bad without equalizing the difficulty of 10 man to the same as 25 mans. Both worked to exlude the more casual players and no "middle ground" was made. So rather than just one issue it was compunded upon.

Many of these changes we just do not know what the overall effect will be until it is released to the public. The sad part is that too many of the "improvements" that Blizzard was hoping some of the changes would bring resulted in terrible reception to the public. I am hoping that the lessons learnt in Cata are responded to and adjusted acordingly. The problem is, many of these issues are ignored (and by that I mean noone on Blizzard's side will communicate with us in the slightest) and will not in some cases even acknowledge there is an issue. Zarhym ignored one of the big ones in this thread again - but then I am getting used to it. I just find it a little sad.

02/02/2012 09:04 PMPosted by Zarhym

The only inevitability in community management I've found is that, whenever we post ANYWHERE on the forums, someone will be sure to tell us where we should be posting, and which part of the community is really being ignored.

I think you guys have been ignoring Mage tanking too much, wtb info on Mage tanks!


Seriously, thanks for the info we've been getting, I can't speak for everyone but I'm not *too* worried about what the talents/abilities/trees/bosses/loots look like today as I'm sure they're going to change a few dozen times between now and release.

Except that it made raiding easier than ever and had the most tank-and-spank joke for heroic dungeons since Wrath.

By my statement, I intended to say that 4.3 would be the last bit of post-BC WoW design. After this patch completes its life, the post-BC era has ended.

And what made it part of the post-BC era? Do you mean like a whole new world?

having said all that, yesterday we discussed low-population and faction-imbalanced realms with our developers. They have some pretty bold and spectacular plans for addressing this in anticipation of implementing some of the features we plan to in Mists. I just don't have a lot of information to share with you at this stage of programming and development.

Is there anyway we can get an ETA on the low POP realms issue???????????

My guild is looking to transfer off of our dying server and we hate having to pay so much ... and leave so many behind.... just because you leave "New player" servers up and dont want to combine these tiny servers that are dying.

I have a feeling MoP will be only a slight uptick on the linear progression of losing subs shuttling this game towards its ultimate demise. I know for me, I've mentally moved on (except for brief periods, I was usually no more than a casual anyways), and it just doesn't even bide my time. It needs to just die already.

Personally, I am looking forward to Planetside 2.

Zar I am not trying to be a douche, but I feel like you guys are jerking us around. Dying realms have been an issue for a while now and all we ever get it "we are looking into it".... All the while you add guild transfers for a HUGE premium...with minimal bonus.


There are honestly so many fixes with this that you guys are just over looking.

1.) allow discounted group transfer rates for guilds. That way we could pay to bring everyone over without breaking our banks.

2.)Merge smaller realms. Do it similar to a transfer..pick the destination realm and the origin realm and then transfer everyone to the destination and who ever needs to change names does so as per regular transfer rules.

3.) Close full servers to transfers and new character creation while simultaneously allowing constant free transfers to low pop realms.

There are more that I have seen floating around, but these are just a fast list typed out from the top of my head.

Please help those like me that are leading a guild on a dying server..... instead of bleeding us dry of every penny.

02/02/2012 09:04 PMPosted by Zarhym

It's not really a flame fest. I disagree with your opinion, which is ok. Mop talents for the only class I really play are just lame, imo. They may be fine for you. I really only play rogue, for 3 years. A hundred post on the subject of rogue 5.0 talents I've seen, and we've been ignored, so I'm kinda bent. I'd like to see a future for me in game but it looks grim, and they WON'T respond

The intent of the talent calculator was to give players something to fool around with. We wanted everyone to get a feel for the idea we're going for in Mists so that it wouldn't sound as crazy or shocking when seen on "paper."

We've responded many times about talent calculator feedback, even pointing out we're not going to be able to discuss things point by point with players because the systems are rapidly changing while in development. The calculator itself is quite out of date.

So you're right. I took the time to respond to this thread when I could've responded elsewhere. But what did I say? I basically said things are looking awesome so far and I can't wait to be able to share more information.

Would you feel better if I found a thesis from you about the problems you have with the out-of-date Mists talent calculator for rogues, only to say, "A lot of the details you're discussing aren't fully fleshed out yet, so we'll talk again when we have updated Mists class info to provide"? Even if you think the answer to that is "yes," I wouldn't be surprised if you then came back here in two weeks to tell me how many amazing threads there are out there about the "REAL" issues that are going completely ignored. It's a neverending cycle and I'm not interesting in always looking for the squeakiest wheels to grease on the forums.

The only inevitability in community management I've found is that, whenever we post ANYWHERE on the forums, someone will be sure to tell us where we should be posting, and which part of the community is really being ignored.

too many big words in that thread buddy! Haha just playing. Good read though. I really enjoy the part where i would feel stupid if i was the other person :D

I have a feeling MoP will be only a slight uptick on the linear progression of losing subs shuttling this game towards its ultimate demise. I know for me, I've mentally moved on (except for brief periods, I was usually no more than a casual anyways), and it just doesn't even bide my time. It needs to just die already.

Personally, I am looking forward to Planetside 2.

This game isn't anywhere near its 'ultimate demise.'


SWG had <1% of WoW's total subs and it died only a month ago.

I didn't say it's near it's ultimate demise, only moving in that direction. You know what will happen eventually, they will hit a point where project Titan (or w/e they are now calling it) will be more important, and updates/fixes will stop, and spammers/cheaters will fill the servers. I'm just saying personally I think that's closer than a lot of people think... whether that's two months or two years is not the point. It's coming.