Win on multiple items in LFR

90 Night Elf Druid
5435
Improve upon it and make it so people can't roll on duplicate weapons and trinkets. IE if somebody already has Gurth, they can't roll on it again if it drops later on.
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20 Dwarf Shaman
120
02/09/2012 10:24 AMPosted by Albigularis
Improve upon it and make it so people can't roll on duplicate weapons and trinkets. IE if somebody already has Gurth, they can't roll on it again if it drops later on.


But some people may legitimately need a second weapon. Dual-wielding is an obvious example. Banning them from winning the second one is going too far. As it is now, they could only win it if no one else had a +Need roll bonus. This seems like a good fix to me.

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90 Night Elf Druid
5435
02/09/2012 10:29 AMPosted by Moibheishe
Improve upon it and make it so people can't roll on duplicate weapons and trinkets. IE if somebody already has Gurth, they can't roll on it again if it drops later on.


But some people may legitimately need a second weapon. Dual-wielding is an obvious example. Banning them from winning the second one is going too far. As it is now, they could only win it if no one else had a +Need roll bonus. This seems like a good fix to me.


Tell that to the hunter that took the polearm that DW drops, had a roll bonus despite already having the polearm since December 15th, /lol'd, mocked, and left.
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1 Human Priest
0
I guess I should report the instance that happened to me yesterday. 3 Conq gloves dropped. A warlock won the first roll. The second roll it removed his Need+ roll and he rolled out of 100. The third roll he received the Need+ again and won.
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20 Dwarf Shaman
120
02/09/2012 10:33 AMPosted by Albigularis


But some people may legitimately need a second weapon. Dual-wielding is an obvious example. Banning them from winning the second one is going too far. As it is now, they could only win it if no one else had a +Need roll bonus. This seems like a good fix to me.


Tell that to the hunter that took the polearm that DW drops, had a roll bonus despite already having the polearm since December 15th, /lol'd, mocked, and left.


That was two rolls from two different runs, obviously. And if that had been a roll for a dual-wield situation, your "fix" would mean that they could never get two of the same weapon. Is that really what you want? If so, try making a thread about that, and see how it goes over.
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90 Night Elf Druid
5435


Tell that to the hunter that took the polearm that DW drops, had a roll bonus despite already having the polearm since December 15th, /lol'd, mocked, and left.


That was two rolls from two different runs, obviously. And if that had been a roll for a dual-wield situation, your "fix" would mean that they could never get two of the same weapon. Is that really what you want? If so, try making a thread about that, and see how it goes over.


As unfair as it would be to one class and two specs of two other classes, it would be a hell of a lot more fair to the other thousands of people this happens to on a weekly basis. Weed out the bad apples if you don't want to ruin the bunch, otherwise the bad apples need to be dealt with even if it hurts the rest of the bunch.
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20 Dwarf Shaman
120


That was two rolls from two different runs, obviously. And if that had been a roll for a dual-wield situation, your "fix" would mean that they could never get two of the same weapon. Is that really what you want? If so, try making a thread about that, and see how it goes over.


As unfair as it would be to one class and two specs of two other classes, it would be a hell of a lot more fair to the other thousands of people this happens to on a weekly basis. Weed out the bad apples if you don't want to ruin the bunch, otherwise the bad apples need to be dealt with even if it hurts the rest of the bunch.


I doubt you'll get many to agree with your approach. Also, "Let's harm the innocent to get back at the guilty!" isn't good game design, and obviously Blizz hasn't chosen to pursue it.

This is a good change they've made. I don't see the point of calling for more draconian "fixes" that would needlessly hurt others, but especially not in the context of this thread. TTYL.
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90 Night Elf Druid
5435


As unfair as it would be to one class and two specs of two other classes, it would be a hell of a lot more fair to the other thousands of people this happens to on a weekly basis. Weed out the bad apples if you don't want to ruin the bunch, otherwise the bad apples need to be dealt with even if it hurts the rest of the bunch.


I doubt you'll get many to agree with your approach. Also, "Let's harm the innocent to get back at the guilty!" isn't good game design, and obviously Blizz hasn't chosen to pursue it.

This is a good change they've made. I don't see the point of calling for more draconian "fixes" that would needlessly hurt others, but especially not in the context of this thread. TTYL.


So then what would you propose? Allow these people to continue to grief others?
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90 Human Warlock
8245
Our patch note is wrong and we apologize for the confusion. We'll get it updated.

What i've seen happen was that the winner of the first roll will lose his role bonus for the second roll. if no one has a role bonus on the second role, then the winner of the first item does have a chance to win the second item.

This is correct.

The way it currently works is you'll lose the Need+ roll bonus if you win an item that drops twice from the same boss, but you won't be made completely ineligible to win it twice. If no one else has the Need+ bonus or rolls Need on the item, you'd still win it.


So, basically you decided to allow players to win the same item twice. Why did the devs back back down on this reasonable change? It is because of lousy loot rules like this and the loot system in general that I will never queue for LFR in its current state.
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90 Human Paladin
8535
02/09/2012 11:19 AMPosted by Dracosani
It is because of lousy loot rules like this and the loot system in general that I will never queue for LFR in its current state.


I'm interested to hear what rules you would rather have in place.
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1 Blood Elf Mage
0


So then what would you propose? Allow these people to continue to grief others?


Report said person via ticket. Griefing intentionally to the detriment of other players is not allowed. If alot start getting actioned for being pests maybe more will stop and think before doing it.

We had a rogue need the shoulders to DE the other week, he had normal tier and Morchok dropped his ones, the rogue needed and DE'd it right there and then. When questioned (there was 2 resto druids who wanted for offspec) he said who cares everyone does it, so we go to kick him and he proceeds to wipe us - he was then reported with multiple tickets and from the response I believe they were going to action him for it. Obviously they dont say what they are doing, but the response basically indicated any future incidents should be reported that same because they wont tolerate griefing. Dont just kick them silently though, make a fuss in raid chat. So others realise and more chance of the person admitting to doing it so Blizz can see the chat log of it.

As for 2 weapons - Most feral druids want 2 of the same weapon (except the DW Polearm) for different reforging between bear and cat. Fury warriors need 2x Gurth or SMF and Frost DK need 2x Souldrinker (along with every tank). Otherwise only enhance needs 2 of the same weapon.

Making the items unique - to a set modifier number would work, even better if it can be limited by class (Hunter = 1 DW item, Enhance shammy = Unique 2 for the axes etc). Really no reason why all the DW items except Gurth, Souldrinker and the 1hand axe need to be other than unique.

As for tokens, I hope a change can be made to stop people winning tokens for offspecs/vendor when I still need said piece for the my main spec. Saw a mage needing tokens for his offspec the other day (when he had 397 pieces in said slot).

I would also like to see more accountability of players - maybe something that monitors activity on the encounter and people far too low miss out? Stop the auto attacking and afk people from being eligible. I dont mind people not being top of the meters etc, but 2-3k dps is just not trying.

As I know LFR was quickly implemented tho (not left until MoP), I really dont mind its not perfect yet, I still win stuff most the time I go through. Happier its in in its current state than not at all and waiting until MoP for it. Its still fairer than LFD groups.
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1 Blood Elf Mage
0
Our patch note is wrong and we apologize for the confusion. We'll get it updated.



This is correct.

The way it currently works is you'll lose the Need+ roll bonus if you win an item that drops twice from the same boss, but you won't be made completely ineligible to win it twice. If no one else has the Need+ bonus or rolls Need on the item, you'd still win it.


So, basically you decided to allow players to win the same item twice. Why did the devs back back down on this reasonable change? It is because of lousy loot rules like this and the loot system in general that I will never queue for LFR in its current state.


They didnt back down at all. Its possible it was set to work on 2 pieces and not 3 from the same boss (which someone previous mentioned) which is a bug and if reported may be fixed. If your referring to a second item being won via a need role without the bonus, obviously its no longer going for mainspec and therefor your now offspec role is fair enough. You cannot win 2 mainspec need roles over other mainspecs. How is that bad? 2x Tier helm drops, you win the first, you will not win the second unless no one else rolls need, if no other need rolls go through you will win a second offspec helm.

I see you do 5man LFD groups, the LFR loot is more fair than LFD groups get. They are just ironing out the kinks which came with it and improving on the original source, which happens in pretty much every piece of software released.
Edited by Magiclobster on 2/10/2012 1:39 AM PST
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43 Night Elf Hunter
11020
We have updated [url="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/4389517"]the 4.3.2 patch notes[/url] to better describe the way this system change works.

I won both the caster staff and healing mace off Deathwing yesterday, and there were a bunch of people rolling on both. I had the role bonus on both items. Gave the staff away to a mage, but I've still seen several instances of people winning two items off the same boss this week.


Reminder -- the change that went in with this patch only affects rolls on identical items from the same boss.


Any update on not allowing people to roll on items that they already have? For instance, if I queue up any already have my tier helm the system shouldn't let me roll need on it again.
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85 Draenei Shaman
6880
Why not make only the items that can only be single equipped, Unique?

So for example, the trinkets should be unique, the agi pole arm, the crossbow.

But not the axes or other weapons that can be dual wielded.

This still leaves it possible for people to ninja things they don't want, true, but at least it eliminates some of the crappier moves, like hunters needing on the bow so other hunters can't win it.

In terms of winning loot that is the same item but upgraded to normal/heroic I don't see too big a hassle in the player then having to /delete that item before being handed a new one. It's not like you're likely to downgrade for any reason.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
8480
It is because of lousy loot rules like this and the loot system in general that I will never queue for LFR in its current state.


I'm interested to hear what rules you would rather have in place.


Solutions to most of the problems which affect LFR loot rules have already been detailed by many players in this forum. Im not going to waste my time reiterating them. Fact of the matter is fixing LFR loot rules is not a priority for Blizzard they are too busy working on their next meal ticket (MOP) to fix what ails us now.

Edit: BTW, they didnt even fix the one rule they said they would:

Players no longer benefit from a role-based need bonus on the second of multiple copies of the same item on a single Raid Finder boss kill. For example, a player who chooses Need on two set piece tokens or two weapons (and wins the first) will only automatically roll 1-100 for the second from that particular boss.


How exactly is that preventing the player from needing on the second copy of the item?
Edited by Gashlevi on 2/12/2012 8:38 AM PST
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85 Blood Elf Priest
2230
What I find silly is how every LFR i do the same person wins ever single drop....and the rest of us get nothing. they need to find a way to make it so if someone wins a drop from an earlier boss then that person can't need on the drop from another boss.. everyone should be able to get something from a lfr group, not just one person over and over...happens with the 3 toons I do lfr with every week. seems rather imbalanced
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1 Orc Hunter
0
I saw a rogue win 2 leather bloody footpads today, both with a roll bonus, and both against several rollers.

I've actually seen it several times since patch.
Edited by Barfbreath on 3/20/2012 10:27 AM PDT
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