Disc Priest Spirit Question

85 Undead Warrior
First off, I appreciate any constructive feedback you all can provide me...

Part 1 : Disc Priest confusion with actual performance and what "the guide" says

After looking over the class specific forums and now in the healing forum itself I have yet to find accurate information regarding the spirit "cap" and whether or not I have too much on my two different toons...

For starters, my Disc priest has 3125 spirit, and whenever I recieved a piece of gear that did not have mastery, I forged to it as per the guides said (or as I read them I saw mastery > haste > crit)

By random curiousity I armory'd one of my 10 man raids' healers profile (One of whom I used as an inspiration to make this class in the first place) and I now noticed that "they" are forging off SPIRIT in favor of MASTERY and leaving whatever CRIT and HASTE that is on the gear alone.

The performance in the meters shows that this is working for them, but I am hesitant to change in light of what all the forum posts say...

At the moment I dont find myself going OOM at all except during Zon'ozz with a cruddy group, when I was doing 19k healing with the others doing 18k and 14k, and I handle Ultraxion 2 healing with no problems at all.

My current stats are


Spirit 3175
Mastery 15.85 (1408 rating)

Spell Power 10634
Mana Regen 5790
Haste 7.47% (956 rating)
Crit 16.21% (463 rating)

1. Do I have way more spirit than (the cap) required for PvE ?

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85 Blood Elf Priest
Spirit is not that great of a stat for us since the majority of our regen is Int based via rapture. Many priests reforge spirit in favor of other secondary stats based off their playstyle and typical role in a raid. There really isn't a set cap as most of the reforging is done via "feeling". If you feel you have too much regen at the end of a fight reforge a small amount into another stat until you're comfortable with both throughput and regen. Reforging too much spirit and missing/delaying rapture procs will run you oom.

Many priests are successful with both "high" and "low" spirit values.

Edit : I should add that there really isn't a "set" way to go in terms of secondary stats. There's a lot of debate on which is better but ultimately it comes down to spells cast over the duration of a raid. All of our stats syngerize really well with each other.
Edited by Dristi on 2/13/2012 3:42 AM PST
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100 Blood Elf Priest
Disc secondary stats are...complicated. You will get a number of conflicting replies in this thread and in the others people will direct you to. What I want you to know is that almost all of them will be right. All of Disc's secondary stats are strong, and there is no single defined stat priority that all disc priests should follow. Your best stat allocation depends almost entirely on your raid, the role you're needed to fill, and the fights you're currently working on as progression.

What you need to know is not "which stat priority is best?" but, rather "what is each stat priority good for?"

Your current stat allocation, heavy Spirit and Mastery, is good for PWS spam. That's about the only thing it's good for. Now, if you're raiding 25s and your role on the team is to bubblebot, that may be fine. If you're doing 10s, though, or if you need more flexibility, you might want to adjust.

The next closest stat type is Haste/Mastery with moderate Spirit. That's what I'm running, and it's probably the most common among 10m disc priests. It's still strong for preshielding when you need to, but you do less preshielding and more PoH spamming with this build.

Next up is Crit/Mastery with low Spirit. That's a "max efficiency" build. The Crit/Mastery style is similar to the Haste/Mastery style, but with slower reaction times in exchange for larger average hits and a lower Spirit requirement. I think you've probably outgeared this build's usefulness except possibly on heroic Yor'sahj.

Then there's Haste/Crit with low to moderate Spirit. This is the "max HPS" build, which you would choose in any situation where you're spamming PoH almost non-stop with PWS only for Rapture. Ultraxion and Zon'ozz are great examples of fights that favour Haste/Crit, although any build can do them.

And last is pure Haste with high Spirit. This is the speed build. Your bubbles aren't very strong, but you can put out a lot of them; your PoH crits less often, but you can cast it fast. This build has lower average HPS for PoH than Haste/Crit and lower average HPS for PWS than Haste/Mastery, but higher average HPS for a mixed PoH/PWS approach, at the cost of smaller bubbles.

(above, "low Spirit" generally means builds with a total Spirit under about 2200; "high Spirit" means over about 3000; "moderate Spirit" means somewhere around 2500-2700.)
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89 Undead Priest
To address your specific questions

1) I'm not sure what you're looking for here. You say you'd like to more comfortable in dropping spirit. That's a statement, not really a question.

2) There is NO SPIRIT CAP. The rule of thumb is to have enough spirit to be comfortable with your personal regen. Spell choice, CD usage, Rapture usage all have a huge effect on regen. And, there's the personal preference side of things.

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85 Human Priest
I have reforged all the SPI on my gear. First to Haste to get to a 2sec PoH and Gheal. If the piece already has haste on it, I have reforged the SPI to Mastery. I raid 10m, usually either with a resto sham or a hpali.

My rule of thumb for SPI has always been: If I have mana left at the end of the fight, I have too much Spirit. I reforged down in increments to a point that I felt was do-able.
Edited by Flaxxen on 2/13/2012 10:06 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
The rule of thumb is to have enough spirit to be comfortable with your personal regen. Spell choice, CD usage, Rapture usage all have a huge effect on regen. And, there's the personal preference side of things.

This. Also, it's important to factor in raid buffs. In a 10 man, you aren't guaranteed to have Mark of the Wild/Blessing of Kings, Arcane Brilliance/Fel Intelligence, Blessing of Might/Mana Spring Totem, Mana Tide Totems, Hymns of Hope, or Innervates.

For instance, my raid group does not have Replenishment, surplus Innervates or Mana Tide Totem (usually, due to our third healer going DPS for most fights), so I pick up a bit more Spirit (actually a pretty large amount due to the propensity my raid's Druid tank has for dodging away entire Shields sometimes--especially on Spine).
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90 Blood Elf Priest
I float around 2k spirit generally just work on rapture uptime and you'll be alright.
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85 Draenei Paladin
02/13/2012 10:04 AMPosted by Flaxxen
My rule of thumb for SPI has always been: If I have mana left at the end of the fight, I have too much Spirit. I reforged down in increments to a point that I felt was do-able.

I really think this is a bad idea. You want a fair bit of extra regen in case people screw up, bad RNG happens, or both at once. Emergencies do occur and it's better to be safe than sorry.

Not arguing that you need to stack Spirit as Disc, just that ending the fight with 0 mana is not a good thing.
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85 Night Elf Druid
02/13/2012 08:11 PMPosted by Tiriél
What works is going to vary from player to player.

It's also going to vary from fight to fight.

When it comes to AoE, you'll maximize throughput by pre-shielding before the AoE, then using PoH/PoM/AA during the AoE (with PW:Ss for rapture only). Shielding during the AoE (outside of rapture proccing) is a throughput loss, and its only real value comes from the EH boost, which may or may not save someone's life, and that's a hard value to quantify.

Spirit stacking (term used loosely) is required to some extent if you pre-shield, and it's not very useful if you don't pre-shield. Because of this, fights with predictable AoE will favor spirit stacking, because predicting the damage pattern will allow you to pre-shield liberally. Fights with unpredictable, or constant AoE (Ultraxion), will not favor spirit, because you can't capitalize on pre-shielding.

Haste vs. Mastery is also decided by fight mechanics. Mastery will make your pre-shielding stronger, whereas haste will make your PoH chains stronger, and since you can only pre-shield when people are at full health (because if they aren't, you should be PoHing), haste will come out ahead in any fight with longer AoE phases, and mastery will come out ahead on any fight with shorter, more frequent AoE phases, as more distinct AoE phases means more opportunities to pre-shield.

Crit is the odd one out, in that it has synergistic value with the other stats, though typically, it isn't stacked.
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