Topic
Gurthalak and the Ret Double Standard Pt. 2
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Edited by Sevilon on 2/11/12 1:53 AM (PST)
Continued from http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3881881765?page=26
Quoted from Elidra in the first post of the last thread. Before the nerf, Ret procced tentacles slightly more often than Arms, but has a low crit rate and no special modifiers to boost its damage. Arms had a slightly lower proc rate but a much higher crit rate. Unholy had a significantly lower proc rate but significant scaling from mastery. Haven't given my input on any of this in a while, so couple things I wanna throw out there and having to do this with the first post of a new thread since the last one capped while I was typing this all out. Seal of Truths extra damage is based off weapon damage. Since when do spells base their damage off weapon damage? They never have. Blizz should've changed that if they didn't want it to work as a melee attack. Long standing mechanic, been in since Vanilla, yada yada yada. Don't think I need to go into that since it has been brought up multiple times. Now, on to Gurthalak itself. Going complete fights as Retribution without a single proc from this sword is ridiculous. For those saying Unholy, Arms, or Fury have gone a fights without a proc, those people aren't playing their class right. All of those class can fill their global cds when played right, the only one that doesn't fill every global cd with a melee strike is Unholy, which tends to fill global cds with Death and Decay or Death Coil, but they have a 1 second global, so it makes up quite a bit. Lets then add that Ret doesn't doesnt scale the best with what little haste we leave on our gear. Arms and Fury get extra auto attacks to get their only resource which, if they have excess, is spent on Heroic Strike which is off the global cd. Unholy gets faster rune regeneration to continue to hit their abilities. Ret gets a poor scale of a lower cd on Crusader Strike. But hey, these are class mechanics, whats it matter if some classes gets more out of a stat than another? It matters because these mechanics drop Ret proc chance even further as gear increases. And finally, personal experience. Got Gurth first week and yes, it was a massive dps increase. Did 40k on Ultra the week before nerf. Week after, no procs, 34k standing in the same spot as the week prior. Grumbled and worked as hard as I could to stay in the top 10 of our 25. When I got in the top 5, my guild mates were surprised, as was I. Replaced Gurthalak two weeks ago with Heroic ESS. Started holding 4th consistently on our meter because Gurth wasn't proccing enough to make up for the loss of secondaries and watching our warrior get close to 3 million damage out of it, usually being 2nd on his most damaging ability, if not top on some fights. Other options for weapons are out there, not as fun, but they are out there. Sadly, it's not Rets place to have fun with the shiny warrior toys. We shall forever be relegated to fighting Blood DKs for our toys. |
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^probably the best way to end the thread...
Apologize to GC and try to make him understand that we're not the Rets he's looking for =P |
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"Based on weapon damage" != "attack with your weapon."
Sigh. Heroic weapons are better than normal weapons. This should not be news.
It's a 2% chance on melee hit. You make almost exactly as many melee attacks that can trigger Gurth as Unholy does. Seriously, Ret will make about 385 attacks that can proc it in a 7.5 minute fight, unholy makes a bit more at 420 or so. Also, as for "not playing their class right..." you don't get to claim that when the RNG is bad for you it's the fault of the designers and when the RNG is bad for Unholy it's the fault of the player.
First off: Your proc chance does not decrease. Your proc chance does not increase as fast as it does for Arms. Second off: Why does the proc chance matter? Is there a driving need to have lots of your damage come from this proc? Or do you believe that your damage will be too low without it? If the former, there's little I can do for you other than saying that you really don't want to rely on a single weapon to balance your damage output. If the latter, I will point to the scale factors for Retribution placing it solidly in the upper-middle of 2H DPS - arms is ahead by about 1.5%, Unholy is tied, Fury is about 1.5% below, and Frost is about 12% below.
"Hey, guys, my random chance was good, and then it was bad. That sucked!"
I'm so terribly sorry that you feel using a weapon that gives you more damage is bad. Really, that must be heartbreaking. |
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Am I the only one who gets tired of seeing that dk in every single ret thread?
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No, but everyone else is tired of seeing rets in every one elses threads, so... atleast you know what it's like! |
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lol i try to stay out of other class threads. They have there own issues without my limited knowlegde on them. I have the fix though...wait for it.....wait for it......BUFF MAGES AND ROGUES. There that sloves all our problems.
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I've gone from "frustrated" to "amused" to "horribly depressed" all the way back around to "frustrated" again with this Ret stuff.
Seriously, we can't be that far from the 100 page mark on this. |
I've gone from "frustrated" to "amused" to "horribly depressed" all the way back around to "frustrated" again with this Ret stuff. Then stop posting in them, Ellia. There'd be nothing to reply to if you'd stop shilling. |
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I enjoy watching people with about the same iLvL who are bad beat me in dps. Its fun to see other classes use a weapon and have it account for 3Mill dmg in the proc and be several thousand dps higher..
This is fair. |
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This person is trying to get us poor, delusional, ungrateful Rets to see the error of our ways, much like the missionaries who went out to convert the poor lawless savages on the frontier in the old west. |
Indeed, youd think they would have quit after the 10th time they were proven wrong, but i guess they're a masochist. |
That's really not the right way to view his points. He's not trolling, he believes what he says, and if we haven't proven it sufficiently for him, than we haven't proven it sufficiently enough for blizzard. And besides, if these threads don't keep going, the issue will never get attention, and if it's just a thread full of us saying "Yeah, this is crap! WHAT TAH FUDGE BLIZZ?!?!?!?!??!" the thread would have died in the first day, if not just locked for being an unproductive thread. I don't think you're right Krin, but I respect and appreciate that you're here. |
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Edited by Paladinchaz on 2/12/12 9:09 AM (PST)
Heres the thing, all seals pretty much function on the same principle, a damage proc based on weapon damage, with something extra (stun for Seal of Justice, stacking Censure with Seal of Truth, straight damage for Seal of Righteousness) If it was truely a bug, Gurth wouldnt proc off of Seal of Righteousness hits, since that seal still functions the same, a damage proc based off a weapon swing, and that damage can still proc a tentacle. Its not a bug, its a Seal mechanic that has existed since day 1 of WoW when Seals were introduced. Old school Seal of Command procced stuff, Seal of Blood procced stuff etc. They still proc old items that followed the gurth rules, this was a specific change to Gurth and its SoT interraction because Paladins were getting more procs than they wanted and thus, doing more damage. It wasnt a "bug", if it were, it wouldnt have lasted 7 years of this games life. |
From what I understand, N Gurth is better than H ESS for arms at least. It doesn't matter if your raid "needs" the extra dps or not, better is better. |
