[Official] New Shaman Update

90 Draenei Shaman
16690
02/17/2012 05:36 PMPosted by Rain
The fact that we're allowed to heal in ANY spec means our need for ridiculous CD's like mages get is lessened greatly.


Adding to this that glyphs as we know it today likely won't exist in MoP, and as such the idea that glyph of evocate might make it through to launch is rather doubtful at this point (subject to change like everything else is.)
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85 Goblin Shaman
8420
Are you really comparing a class that can heal itself to a class that can't? :P

The fact that we're allowed to heal in ANY spec means our need for ridiculous CD's like mages get is lessened greatly.

In addition, I'm pretty sure PvP will be getting some pretty heavy revamps going into MoP because.. it's kind of a selling point for the expansion.


Guess what: your :P don't cut it for me. Mages will be able to heal themselves for 20% of their total health instantly w/ Cold Snap. And undo 100% of damage they suffer for a full 8 sec if they have the talent in addition to their lvl 90 ability. And stagger 2 silences for unbelievable coverage, not to mention spamming Polys and having escapes like Ice Block, Blink, Invisibility (or Greater Invisibility). And get massive dps boosts from their lvl 90 talents.

And our healing. Yep, I know you go full Resto for both your specs, so maybe you don't understand how Healing Surge just doesn't cut it. Sure, there's Healing Tide Totem, which can be 1-shot and ticks 5 times during its duration for 15K or so healing if it isn't one-shot. (perhaps, what, 20K at max level?). And there's Ancestral Guidance that will heal you nearest ally—but no word yet on whether you, the Sham, will ever get any healing from it. And then there's Healing Surge.

But Ele has lost Elemental Warding (12% reduction in incoming magic damage) and Spark of Life for healing boosts. And, again, look at the silence coverage a mage will have: Fun trying to work in damage, let alone self-heals with the almighty Healing Surge.

Ele has suffered greatly from poor defensive abilities and damage mitigation, and nothing in the current tree makes up for it. Those defensive abilities may seem to be adequate when viewed through a Cata lens, but we are talking MoP and a slew of added stuns, CCs, a silence, and many self-healing abilities for other DPS classes.
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02/17/2012 11:29 AMPosted by Stormingire


don't be so sure.


They're situational.

On some fights I'd rather have the haste CD, while on others I'd rather have the passive haste with the instant cast on a minute CD.

This isn't even considering echos which is going to throw the choice out of whack depending on what the numbers on it are.


That's basically what I said, and you replied with "not really"...
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100 Troll Shaman
16345


They're situational.

On some fights I'd rather have the haste CD, while on others I'd rather have the passive haste with the instant cast on a minute CD.

This isn't even considering echos which is going to throw the choice out of whack depending on what the numbers on it are.


That's basically what I said, and you replied with "not really"...


I saw the term "no brainer" and just assumed you were making a definitive statement. Now that i look at it I see the "had assumed" before it. My mistake; reading comprehension fail.
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60 Troll Shaman
15910
02/17/2012 05:16 PMPosted by Runesandgold
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

Well? has anyone?

Paraphrase:
I am not resto and I dont want to lose my healing spells, and I want my healing spells to heal more than 3% of my hp after a 2 second cast. Mages will be OP.

I agree.

Storytime! As an elemental shaman in Classic WoW, I spec'd into a talent called "Eye of the Storm" which gave me immunity to casting pushback for 6 secs after taking a crit, I also had points in the resto tree that gave me some basic resistance to casting pushback on lesser healing wave. Between those two talents, I was able to sit and spam LHW on myself at the expense of any/all movement and damage and survive being nuked on.

Haven't been able to do that in a while.. but if pallies can still bubble for immunity to all damage/effects AND still perform their normal actions.. I think we ought to, once again, be able to sacrifice all other activity to spam heal ourselves (even as a dps) at high mana cost and survive for a while.
Edited by Gobbheavy on 2/18/2012 2:53 PM PST
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85 Goblin Shaman
8420
Paraphrase:
I am not resto and I dont want to lose my healing spells, and I want my healing spells to heal more than 3% of my hp after a 2 second cast. Mages will be OP.

I agree.


If Bliz Devs could split a lvl 90 talent into different effects for different specs, they could add some of the healing, defense, escape, closer mechanisms Ele and Enh need that would be too much for Resto.
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50 Human Priest
14170
02/18/2012 05:29 PMPosted by Skink
If Bliz Devs could split a lvl 90 talent into different effects for different specs, they could add some of the healing, defense, escape, closer mechanisms Ele and Enh need that would be too much for Resto.


Considering that the snare ignoring effect of GW is gone, resto will need an escape mechanism too.
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85 Goblin Shaman
8420
02/19/2012 12:56 AMPosted by Niktesla
If Bliz Devs could split a lvl 90 talent into different effects for different specs, they could add some of the healing, defense, escape, closer mechanisms Ele and Enh need that would be too much for Resto.


Considering that the snare ignoring effect of GW is gone, resto will need an escape mechanism too.


I agree, but what Resto needs and what Ele needs are not going to be the same. The current T1 defenses are defenses Ele should have had in Cata. A whole expansion w/o an adequate defensive CD, and now we should giggle in delight the MoP T1 is raising us up to Cata level? Plus, though I don't play Enh, it seems from the dialogue that they need a gap closer. Especially now that the snare ignoring effect has been removed from GW; but I'd imagine that a leap or somesuch would be better.

Not at all thrilled w/ the severe lack in Shaman MoP abilities and talents. We have a final tier of talents forthcoming that might make up for this, but being last on the totem pole for receiving attention is a motivator for pessimism rather than optimism—if I had to choose one or the other. At best, a kind of agnostic dread, if I base my expectations on past experience.
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50 Human Priest
14170
I agree, but what Resto needs and what Ele needs are not going to be the same. The current T1 defenses are defenses Ele should have had in Cata. A whole expansion w/o an adequate defensive CD, and now we should giggle in delight the MoP T1 is raising us up to Cata level? Plus, though I don't play Enh, it seems from the dialogue that they need a gap closer. Especially now that the snare ignoring effect has been removed from GW; but I'd imagine that a leap or somesuch would be better.

Not at all thrilled w/ the severe lack in Shaman MoP abilities and talents. We have a final tier of talents forthcoming that might make up for this, but being last on the totem pole for receiving attention is a motivator for pessimism rather than optimism—if I had to choose one or the other. At best, a kind of agnostic dread, if I base my expectations on past experience.


They could always do what they did for druids and make one talent cover all specs separately within the talent. It gives feral kitty the pounce, moonkin the bound backward etc. Wild Charge is the name of the talent and it is in the L15 row. If they did that I am sure there would be a whole sect of PvEers that are upset about getting PvP talents for the L90 row though and I wouldn't blame them.
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60 Troll Shaman
15910
02/19/2012 11:07 AMPosted by Niktesla
They could always do what they did for druids and make one talent cover all specs separately within the talent.


I think they ought to. It would make me want to sing campfire songs. That and give us more totems, awesome raid buff totems similar to the ones we always had but stronger and on a shared cooldown so you have to pick which one is going to be the most useful for your raid.
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Healing Surge just doesn't cut it. Sure, there's Healing Tide Totem, which can be 1-shot and ticks 5 times during its duration for 15K or so healing if it isn't one-shot. (perhaps, what, 20K at max level?). And there's Ancestral Guidance that will heal you nearest ally—but no word yet on whether you, the Sham, will ever get any healing from it. And then there's Healing Surge.

But Ele has lost Elemental Warding (12% reduction in incoming magic damage) and Spark of Life for healing boosts. And, again, look at the silence coverage a mage will have: Fun trying to work in damage, let alone self-heals with the almighty Healing Surge.

Ele has suffered greatly from poor defensive abilities and damage mitigation, and nothing in the current tree makes up for it. Those defensive abilities may seem to be adequate when viewed through a Cata lens, but we are talking MoP and a slew of added stuns, CCs, a silence, and many self-healing abilities for other DPS classes.


I agree with this. I wouldn't be so annoyed with many of our talents if we had baseline abilities that they complimented, especially in the case of defensive cooldowns. In a game where Destruction Warlocks have a 5 second Daze on a 12 second cooldown, instant Fear, and Stuns or Mages have access to 2 Silences and Poly I don't really want to be stuck with defensive options that just don't cut it, for the entirety of another expansion.

Shadow, Balance, Feral, and Retribution are all hyrbid specializations -- with access to heals that won't be limited by 25/50% -- yet they have multiple defensive options.

Now I can hope in my head that perhaps we will be seeing Stoneskin come back in some defensive form (5HP but better than nothing at this point) or that Shamanistic Rage will make a baseline reappearance, but if we are to give feedback we have to point out what we think the faults are based on what we see and not wait for what ifs to become reality.

The fact that they have a planned media tour coming up soon and we have no level 90 talents and our spell lists feel largely unaltered is disappointing to say the least.
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100 Dwarf Shaman
10045
I agree with what many have said about elemental shaman needing more defensive CDs. Astral Shift looks promising, but the 30% damage/healing reduction is wholly unnecessary with such a long cooldown. In its current state, a 1 minute CD would seem more appropriate compared to other classes' similar abilities for MOP and their baseline defensive abilities, which shaman largely lack.

Additionally, those level 45 MOP talents are pretty boring.

I understand that Blizzard feels the need to have a special talent level to improve totems, but I'd like to see them go out and actually IMPROVE TOTEMS here instead of just refreshing cooldowns, etc. For instance, how about a choice of having the Fire Elemental totem spring 2-4 Fire Elementals instead of just one? Or possibly a talent making the Fire Elemental a real pet like the Water Elemental for mages? Or a talent making the Healing Stream totem randomly cast an improved Healing Rain on us?

The only really decent option on this line was the one that allowed for two different totems of the same school (Fire, Water, Earth, Air) to be used at the same time. That has now been removed, but it was a good idea and should return. Other than that, I'd like to see some options that truly enhance the totem experience as seen in the examples above.

Another thing I'd like to see is a line of talents to embellish Thunderstorm (or Feral Spirit for Enhance, or Earth Shield for Resto) in much the way that the first line for Warriors embellishes Charge. Being able to reduce the cooldown on Thunderstorm from 45/35 seconds to something <20 seconds (see "Juggernaut") would be a godsend for Ele survivability.

In other news... Flame Ascendant looks amazing. Definitely makes me bright-eyed and optimistic for the finished product here.
Edited by Pyre on 2/25/2012 9:33 PM PST
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