Shiv Changes

100 Gnome Rogue
11690
02/15/2012 06:24 PMPosted by Aeriwen
I can't possible state how great all of the rogue tweaks look. My future baby monk is probably going to have a hard time getting leveled. :P


^^ this.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
9125
02/15/2012 06:21 PMPosted by Sheevah
It's mandatory now, because it's the best snare in the game, and our damage is terrible if we can't sit on a target.


Exactly...para's stun and leech's heal mean nothing if my target keeps blinking away.



02/15/2012 06:21 PMPosted by Sheevah
You're just accustomed to it being that way, so it's hard for you to envision it being different. You need to take a step back, take a deep breath, and ponder what it would be like if you had decent uptime (rather than extraordinary), and did strong (rather than weak) damage on a target.


I can ponder that quite well (in fact it fits better in terms of rogue......ish....ness? i believe)

The thing is I see the decent uptime but not the strong damage in the preveiw.

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10 Goblin Rogue
10610
02/15/2012 06:23 PMPosted by Rfeann
That sounds like it has the potential to completely redefine the typical role of a rogue in an organized PvP scenario.


I would be willing to bet a small sum of money that rogues in panda land will play virtually nothing like the current rogue.

You'll still know we're rogues, due to the basic mechanics, but the way you play (outside of basics) will be nothing like a Cata rogue from the look of things.



02/15/2012 06:31 PMPosted by Timat
Exactly...para's stun and leech's heal mean nothing if my target keeps blinking away.


Crippling isn't doing you any good now if the target keeps blinking away.



02/15/2012 06:31 PMPosted by Timat
The thing is I see the decent uptime but not the strong damage in the preveiw.


I'm assuming that the devs are smart enough to know that with the current model, our damage (outside of major CD's) is going to have to be buffed to compensate.

If I didn't feel that was the case, I would be starting a riot on the forums in protest.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
9125
02/15/2012 06:36 PMPosted by Sheevah
I'm assuming that the devs are smart enough to know that with the current model, our damage (outside of major CD's) is going to have to be buffed to compensate.


Then you have more faith than I my tiny, green, big eared friend.
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100 Human Rogue
14920
I think the 50% snare will be fine. That puts us in line with the other melee snares, and we still have the option to apply A 70% on CD. Additionally, it look like we are getting some viable ranged options. Deadly Throw is actually quite good as a gap closer, the problem was getting a CP on the target and for that we have Shuriken Toss. And neither option precudes the use of ShS, Prep or Burst of Speed.

We will have to wait an see, but these look like some very solid and fun options to choose from. IMO.

Oh, and if you notice, there is no super crazy buffs to openers for any single spec. I'm hoping that means that all specs will actually want to open again.

Oh, I'm getting offtopic. I'll shut up now. :P

Did I mention that I was excited?
Edited by Aeriwen on 2/15/2012 6:46 PM PST
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10 Goblin Rogue
10610
02/15/2012 06:38 PMPosted by Timat
Then you have more faith than I my tiny, green, big eared friend.


So, honestly, all of our disagreements on the topic can be summed up with the idea that I'm being hopelessly optimistic for a change and you're being realistically pessimistic.


I can live with that, and knowing that, I'm going to get outta here and get some rest. Haha.

Have a good evening, all.
Edited by Sheevah on 2/15/2012 6:44 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
12970
I would be willing to bet a small sum of money that rogues in panda land will play virtually nothing like the current rogue.

You'll still know we're rogues, due to the basic mechanics, but the way you play (outside of basics) will be nothing like a Cata rogue from the look of things.


I agree with that 100%. So many things are changing.
Can't wait for the Beta to see how much it's all changed. Heck, maybe Rogues will turn back into Vanilla Rogues where we didn't really depend on CDs or Healing. That would be neat.
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85 Undead Rogue
2860
02/15/2012 06:36 PMPosted by Sheevah
I'm assuming that the devs are smart enough to know that with the current model, our damage (outside of major CD's) is going to have to be buffed to compensate.


Prepare to be disappointed because most of our damaging abilities got nerfed along with these changes.


Edit: Didn't see the weapon dps increase to compensate statement. However that does not discount all of the abilities that seemingly had their damage lowered (that don't work on weapon dmg %).
Edited by Ådp on 2/15/2012 7:29 PM PST
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100 Night Elf Rogue
9125
02/15/2012 06:45 PMPosted by Knocrogue
I would be willing to bet a small sum of money that rogues in panda land will play virtually nothing like the current rogue.


True. But the question is will it be for the better or worse.



02/15/2012 06:43 PMPosted by Sheevah
So, honestly, all of our disagreements on the topic can be summed up with the idea that I'm being hopelessly optimistic for a change and you're being realistically pessimistic.


No I am just being passimistic....realistically or not lol (Grumpy old man kinda thing)

If we do indeed have a good boost to damage in exchange for some mobility I will be fine with that (for the most part....one tier I hate for another reason) But the damage of our skills seems to be the same and so fare I have not seen and damage boosting changes that we have gotten...most of the stuff has been rolling in glyphs we already use to skills we already have.

So I guess we will see.....I just hope again that they are not done with rogues just yet. (Veristility I am looking at you)
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100 Night Elf Rogue
9125
02/15/2012 07:12 PMPosted by Ådp
I'm assuming that the devs are smart enough to know that with the current model, our damage (outside of major CD's) is going to have to be buffed to compensate.


Prepare to be disappointed because most of our damaging abilities got nerfed along with these changes.

To name a few:

Dispatch
Ambush
Venomous wounds
Garrote
Mutilate
Deadly throw
Main gauche
Fan of Knives
Evis
Sinister Strike
Hemo
Wound Poison
Instant Poison


Source?

I honestly have not gone through and compared the numbers with the current skills but has someone else done that?
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85 Night Elf Rogue
9225
02/15/2012 07:12 PMPosted by Ådp
I'm assuming that the devs are smart enough to know that with the current model, our damage (outside of major CD's) is going to have to be buffed to compensate.


Prepare to be disappointed because most of our damaging abilities got nerfed along with these changes.

To name a few:

Dispatch
Ambush
Venomous wounds
Garrote
Mutilate
Deadly throw
Main gauche
Fan of Knives
Evis
Sinister Strike
Hemo
Wound Poison
Instant Poison

Um... no they weren't.

Question: Why did attacks using % weapon damage drop so much?

Answer: We are in the process of recalculating the way damage is dealt. Individual weapon damage is going up by the same proportion in order to keep DPS at level 85 about the same. This should ensure that, at lower levels, these abilities aren’t overpowered.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4063167954?page=3#51
Edited by Verelyse on 2/15/2012 7:19 PM PST
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Community Manager
Just for visibility:

Question: Why did attacks using % weapon damage drop so much?

Answer: We are in the process of recalculating the way damage is dealt. Individual weapon damage is going up by the same proportion in order to keep DPS at level 85 about the same. This should ensure that, at lower levels, these abilities aren’t overpowered.


Also, I'll try to drop back this thread tomorrow with some answers to a few on-topic questions that have already been asked.
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100 Undead Rogue
20515
This isn't on shiv but on the new changes but is Improved Recuperate completely gone or is one of those things going to glyphs?

Also looking over the classes it looks like only rogues and sv hunters bring the 10% melee/range haste. Is this just because many other classes are missing things or is this going to be for the "reason to bring a rogue" that was talked about before?
Edited by Gankz on 2/15/2012 7:52 PM PST
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90 Gnome Rogue
11390
Just for visibility:

Question: Why did attacks using % weapon damage drop so much?

Answer: We are in the process of recalculating the way damage is dealt. Individual weapon damage is going up by the same proportion in order to keep DPS at level 85 about the same. This should ensure that, at lower levels, these abilities aren’t overpowered.


Also, I'll try to drop back this thread tomorrow with some answers to a few on-topic questions that have already been asked.

you're cute
winkyface.jpg
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100 Night Elf Rogue
9125
Just for visibility:

Question: Why did attacks using % weapon damage drop so much?

Answer: We are in the process of recalculating the way damage is dealt. Individual weapon damage is going up by the same proportion in order to keep DPS at level 85 about the same. This should ensure that, at lower levels, these abilities aren’t overpowered.


Also, I'll try to drop back this thread tomorrow with some answers to a few on-topic questions that have already been asked.


Just so I can word it better:

1) "Do you feel that since rogues can only use one non-lethal poison that this limits the amount of choices rogues have concerning para/leeching. That is if we take leeching we basically cannot take para since it would be pointless to take para if we are going to be using leeching....and pointless to take leeching when we are going to be using para. This in a sense gives us one less talent option then other classes since taking one poison locks out the other. Would'nt it be better to have a "poison" tier made up of deadly brew, para poison, and leeching?"


2) "Do you feel that rogue are getting significant boosts from leeching or para poison in PvP conisdering we have to give up our one reliable (no cost/cd) snare? As a melee class keeping targets close is vital. If I cant keep a target in close then a random melee focused stun or a melee damage focused heal wont do me any good. The shived root from para poison kinda works well since we still get some from of movment redux via our poison but what about leeching?"


/crosses fingers

PS: Since you are a blue....and you are actually posting in the rogue forums...and you are actually posting juicy information...when can we expect the world to end?
Edited by Timat on 2/15/2012 7:42 PM PST
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85 Night Elf Rogue
9225
I'm still trying to think of a way to twist this into giving rogues an offensive, defensive, or mass dispel ability.
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100 Human Rogue
14920
Just for visibility:

Question: Why did attacks using % weapon damage drop so much?

Answer: We are in the process of recalculating the way damage is dealt. Individual weapon damage is going up by the same proportion in order to keep DPS at level 85 about the same. This should ensure that, at lower levels, these abilities aren’t overpowered.


Also, I'll try to drop back this thread tomorrow with some answers to a few on-topic questions that have already been asked.


I have a question.

Who do we send the gifts and showers of praise to? :)
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90 Gnome Rogue
11390
Hi, I'm Kelensan energy capping is obviously a huge problem for combat now, why not have a talent that makes it work much like ferocious bite?
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100 Night Elf Rogue
9125
02/15/2012 07:53 PMPosted by Kelensan
Hi, I'm Kelensan energy capping is obviously a huge problem for combat now, why not have a talent that makes it work much like ferocious bite?


Also, I'll try to drop back this thread tomorrow with some answers to a few on-topic questions that have already been asked.
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