Topic
10.8 (Mountain Lion) Discussion
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Edited by Omegal on 2/16/12 4:10 PM (PST)
@ tia, Now you don't have to upgrade to iOS for mac 1.0 (Lion), you can get iOS for mac 2.0 (ie mountain lion) ;)
What a disapointment. "we are accelerating our butchering of OS X and turning it into iOS with emphesis on features that have little use to a person on a DESKTOP mac, while continuing to pull focus from things that matter like actual desktop gaming. All while our competitor is releasing windows 8 this year with strong emphesis on graphics and gaming performance and actual desktop things" that's what i heard in Tim cooks speach anyways. Sure those things will matter to a handy little macbook air. But my Mac pro continues to cry as the OS gains even more bloat i don't want on a high performance gaming rig. |
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Edited by Omegal on 2/16/12 4:15 PM (PST)
Oh i know, apple is smart, they went full mobile focus the day the iphone took off. It's clear that's their only end game now. Just disapointing from a desktop power user standpoint though that in next 1-2 years we may actually HAVE to use windows for the latest and greatest gaming tech. Apple adds the stuff eventually, but at such a low priority. Blizz games will always run cause they set the standard low anyways. they focus on accessability vs cutting edge. But the same may not always hold true from other companies though. Only time will tell though.
Frequent updates are a double edged that give updates more often but also break things more often. This can sometimes be bad news for the end user. As we know, Apple ceases support of previous OS when they ship a new one. With exception to security fixes. But graphics drivers, bug fixes, forget it. They MIGHT ship one update that was already in works before new OS went retail. But ultimately support is done. Like lion did for 10.6 and 10.6 did for 10.5. Locked status on their drivers an what not. So now if they do OS updates yearly, you are put in a forced pinch to either update or suffer discontinuation even faster. To think after just a year lion will stop getting updates. sigh. Blizz is gonna have fun with this one. They get to maintain backwards compatiblity with twice the discontinued OSes as before. |
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Edited by Dwarftude on 2/16/12 3:29 PM (PST)
Did you just grow up on a Mac or, if not, what otherwise peaked your interest in Macs? I mean, if it's just graphics and gaming performance and customizability that you are interested why are you a Mac forum MVP? Despite the green text, you don't seem like the magnanimous type. Just don't tell anyone that they're adding features and functionality from THEIR OWN mobile OS to mainline Windows. <its a secret to everyone! SHUSH!> |
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Edited by Omegal on 2/16/12 4:39 PM (PST)
Gaming on mac is relevant. at one point apple did act interest in it. they have in past worked with both blizzard and valve on improving shortcomings on their end. So one can always hope for progress even if they know it's not likely. Although that's only tip of my complains about lion and 10.8 in general. They are still forcing bloat upon you whether you want it or not. Lion is now on 10.7.3 and still has no option to disable auto save or any of the other processes i'm stuck with running in background I don't use. I mean i couldn't even use imessage beta for more then 15 min before I uninstalled it. It removed several features ichat had. Customization is more important then anything to me. Removing auto accept option, removing text only option for im conversation format, removing option to disable recent chat history. Huge disappointments and step backwards. It even seems to be storing our chats in cloud now or something because if you actually CHANGE machines the new machine also pulls up the conversation history you just had on first machine. Where did imessage ask me permission to do this? where is option to disable it? That's the same garbage i vetoed AIM for. Green text doesn't mean we can't still state an opinion in a constructive manor. Or issue a bit of cautious warning about upcoming changes from apple. It's voicing opinions that makes changes come about. Raising awareness to gain more voices, etc. Like iMessage taking away choices from me, you can bet that while it's in beta i'm throwing feedback at apple about what they did wrong. I'll also for sure test later 10.8 beta's with wow too to assess performance and stuff and do debugging to avoid apple having any major bugs like that cursor issue 10.7 had. Still a mac person at heart. Here until the ship sinks. Although i won't touch a DP1, i never mess with those. I test the beta's not the alphas, eww. But there are plenty of people on forums who might though. Like this guy http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4062848623 , more confidence in alphas then I. :) They think 10.8 even in early alpha has notable performance gains, that does show some promise. It may lack new features but it may have more performance fixes. |
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Edited by Phine on 2/16/12 6:07 PM (PST)
Did you just grow up on a Mac or, if not, what otherwise peaked your interest in Macs? I mean, if it's just graphics and gaming performance and customizability that you are interested why are you a Mac forum MVP? Omegal can and did defend himself, but this attack is sort of uninformed and uncalled for. As far as I know, green text doesn't require magnanimity. Green or not, he's free to speak his mind freely on the forums, and the opinions he's expressing shouldn't surprise anyone who reads his posts regularly, which I'm sure includes you, Dwarftitude. Why Omegal is a one of the Mac forum MVPs should go without saying. He posts helpful information and advice just as often as the blues, and that's saying a lot for the forum that probably sees the most blue posts. It's likely for this level of contribution that he was awarded MVP status. Being a forum MVP does not mean that you're required to agree with all of Apple's (or Blizzard's) decisions, or to be silent when you don't. |
Meh. "Hundreds of new APIs give developers access to new core technologies and enhanced features within OS X. The Game Kit APIs tap into the same services as Game Center on iOS, making it possible to create multiplayer games that work across Mac, iPhone, iPad and iPod touch. A new graphics infrastructure underpins OpenGL and OpenCL and implements GLKit, first introduced in iOS 5, to make it easier to create OpenGL apps." http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/02/16Apple-Releases-OS-X-Mountain-Lion-Developer-Preview-with-Over-100-New-Features.html |
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Those apis are mainly for seemless porting of iOS apps to OS X. Game center apis and such. idn't see any real indication it was anything more then just a bunch of iOS apis ported over. but a full list would be nice.
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Omegal can and did defend himself, but this attack is sort of uninformed and uncalled for.He also didn't answer the question, at all. Rather he reinforced the question. He wants -- customizability -- the hallmark of PC based systems and went quite into detail about his frustrations with and the limitations of Mac computers and OS X. Based on that input: Omegal doesn't seem like a candidate for Apple products. So why would he select a Mac and use OS X? He's forgiving some of the faults of apple products to gain some unspecified advantage. I'm saying he doesn't seem like the kind of person willing to be magnanimous to Apples philosophy. But yet here is, dedicated enough to have earned the privilege of green text on the Apple Tech support forum MVP. It would seem like a very easy decision for him to not care at all about Apple products. But, perhaps he was too irritated to rationally respond to my question. So I say again, Why? By default, baked in, even before Lion and Mountain Lion, Apple products limit customization. Do I need to quote this?
Why are you choosing a product that inherently limits your options to customize both the hardware and software. |
Sorry.. I'll cut out the first part. "A new graphics infrastructure underpins OpenGL and OpenCL and implements GLKit, first introduced in iOS 5, to make it easier to create OpenGL apps." When you mention graphics infrastructure, OpenGL, and OpenCL in the same sentence.. We're not talking about porting iOS apps. |
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All that the PR statement is talking about are APIs to make it easier for individuals and small companies to write Obj-C games for OS X and iOS. Is 10.8 going to provide a better OpenGL implementation? Probably. But that's not really what the PR statement is talking about. It's probably unlikely that Blizzard will have an opportunity to take advantage of these things that Apple is providing. The majority of their business comes from Windows users, so they write their games in a language that is well-supported for both Windows and Mac (C++).
OpenCL doesn't even have anything to do with graphics or game development. It has to do with using your graphics card for non-graphics related processing. |
Meh. I think the bolded part says it all. I really don't give a rat's patootie about some odd resolution (low at that) iOS game running on my desktop. So I'm supposed to be happy that I can now (supposedly) run Angry Birds iOS game on my desktop (which would look down right ugly blown up on a 1920x1080 monitor/TV), while giving up any user control and sane desktop features? I don't give a crap about iTunes integration. I have an Android phone and WinAmp for that. I don't care about iTunes at all really other than purchasing the music, which WinAmp can play just fine (all recent iTunes music is unprotected AAC of higher quality than the more expensive protected yet crappier sounding AAC of years past). Apple is making the decision for me: move away from Macs once my beloved Mac Pro bites the dust. I can't believe how badly they're neutering any sense of "Mac" on their desktop OS. Hell, did anybody else notice that Mac is no longer in the OS's name? Yeah, it's just "OS X Mountain Lion" now. If that isn't a crystal clear indication of where Apple is going, I don't know what is. Is it the better alternative to Windows? I dunno, does Windows shove Autosave, Versions, and Resumes down my throat without being able to turn them off without either major hassle or massive problems should they ever get re-enabled at any point? Windows 8 may be bringing in Aero from their mobile Windows 7 OS, but you can turn it off. You cannot turn off Lion's features (and likely Mountain Lion's as well) at all in most cases. It's kind of like how Apple chooses to do scroll bars in Lion. It isn't there until I scroll. Um, if it ain't there until I actually scroll, which is what the blasted bar is supposed to be used for, then what use is it to me? This on top of the fact that the color of the iOS scroll bars makes them nigh on impossible to see on many web pages and damned difficult on white background text fields like the ones used to reply in these forums. If it's any indication of how much I hate Lion and (likely) MLion, I used to download the updates Apple put up for the dev accounts on a constant basis. Just ask Omegal. I used to do the rat race with him trying to keep square with him and Bluespacecow so as to help the three of us weed out trouble spots before they went live. Ask Omegal when the last time it was that I bothered with going over an OS update with him on these forums. Hint: You'll be able to trace the last of that to when Lion came out. Apple is driving away its core users for the tablet loving crowd. Hey, I'm all for the iPads and iPhones out there that people adore. That doesn't mean that I, as a desktop user, want iOS as my mainstay. I'll say this: As much as I loathe Samsung right now (they said their Galaxy S phones will never get Ice Cream Sandwich because their own bloatware TouchWiz bogs the phones down too much and they're unwilling to ditch it), I hope they ultimately win against Apple's iPad vs. Galaxy Tab suit. I hope Apple gets kicked in the nuts with regard to the Foxconn investigation and resulting iPad namesake suit from China. Why? They need to be knocked down a few pegs and put back into reality - the reality that their users that aren't using their iProducts are getting sick and tired of iThis and iThat destroying what we've held dear to us for close to thirty years: The Mac. |
Omegal can and did defend himself, but this attack is sort of uninformed and uncalled for.He also didn't answer the question, at all. Rather he reinforced the question. He wants -- customizability -- the hallmark of PC based systems and went quite into detail about his frustrations with and the limitations of Mac computers and OS X. I don't understand the relevance of your inquiry. It's not up to us to decide whether or not Omegal is the ideal Apple enthusiast, nor does it really matter. He's a major contributor here. He's entitled to his opinions, they do not diminish his contributions, and this forum would be a lot less interesting if he (or anyone else) didn't feel free to express them. |
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Edited by Phine on 2/16/12 9:43 PM (PST)
It's kind of like how Apple chooses to do scroll bars in Lion. It isn't there until I scroll. Um, if it ain't there until I actually scroll, which is what the blasted bar is supposed to be used for, then what use is it to me? This on top of the fact that the color of the iOS scroll bars makes them nigh on impossible to see on many web pages and damned difficult on white background text fields like the ones used to reply in these forums. I'm sure you've noticed this, but... http://osxdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/always-show-scroll-bars-mac-os-x-lion.jpg |
Oooooh, but we are. That's exactly what we're talking about. From Apple's point of view, they want a one stop shop for their apps/games. They want everything to come through the AppeStore and nowhere else, and want it all sandboxed so they can control it. Nobody with half a brain believes otherwise - we've seen the demise of user control over the UI in Lion, and my guess is that continues into MLion as well, since it's basically Desktop iOS 2.0 for the Mac. On the competitor's side, Windows is trying to ride Apple's coattails in introducing the fluff they've put into Windows 8. The key difference there is the user can turn it off. Some things might be a bit on the tech savvy side to turn off, but the option is there. Lion (and again likely MLion)? You can turn off Resumes only, and only partially. If for some reason it gets re-enabled (hint: it always does on OS updates), and you forget to turn it off again before opening a single non-system preference app, every document you've ever opened before will reopen again. I've had it happen twice now, and as such I removed Lion from my SSDs and now exclusively use Snow Leopard. I'm willing to put up with the stutter in WoW just so I don't have to deal with Lion's frustrating downsides that I have no control over. All this stuff for the sake of focusing/advancing iOS. With the release of Lion, Apple ensured I will never buy an iPhone or iPad. Ever. And if I can't get the money soon to buy a 2010 Mac Pro before they're all gone, this Mac Pro will be the very last Mac I ever get (since new Macs will be forced to run Lion or MLion, while the 2010 Mac Pros, even though they may ship with Lion, can run Snow Leopard). I stop caring about under the hood changes when my user experience gets dumped on the way Apple continues to dump on it. |
Noticed, yes. Now show me a scroll bar I can see without squinting and I'll shut up about it. All I'd want is my Aqua scroll bars back. Or even a blocky Windows style scroll bar. Not this "I can't see it without sticking my nose up the TV's bezel" miniscule things. |
Yeah, it's definitely less visible. You may need a better display (or new eyeballs :( ) Also, loool, I just tried using universal access to enhance contrast. The scrollbar entirely disappears as you increase the contrast! Haha, what a usability nightmare. |
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You know I use a Mac too. I dearly love my mac. You and Omegal and I are just at opposite ends. Before 10.7 or 10.8, what was it about Macs you liked? Was it the OS? If it was, what about previous versions of Mac OS X did you like over the PC counterpart? Feel free to ask me the same. I'll even respond just based on Tiger, Leopard, and or SL, if you want. |
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Edited by Boland on 2/16/12 10:06 PM (PST)
When you mention graphics infrastructure, OpenGL, and OpenCL in the same sentence.. We're not talking about porting iOS apps. No, they're not. This is the full paragraph. "Hundreds of new APIs give developers access to new core technologies and enhanced features within OS X. The Game Kit APIs tap into the same services as Game Center on iOS, making it possible to create multiplayer games that work across Mac, iPhone, iPad and iPod touch. A new graphics infrastructure underpins OpenGL and OpenCL and implements GLKit, first introduced in iOS 5, to make it easier to create OpenGL apps. Using Core Animation in Cocoa apps is easier than ever, and new video APIs deliver modern 64-bit replacements for low-level QuickTime APIs. Enhanced Multi-Touch™ APIs give developers double-tap zoom support and access to the system-wide lookup gesture. Kernel ASLR improves security through enhanced mitigation against buffer overflow attacks. " |
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It's fine if he doesn't want to answer. I just made an observation (he wants customization but choses a product that limits it) and asked a question. What I got was, as you even stated, and uninformed and uncalled for attack. So I risked my question while elaborating a bit. |
