February 15 Update to Mists Talent Calculator

90 Orc Death Knight
13240
Question: Why did attacks using % weapon damage drop so much?

Answer: We are in the process of recalculating the way damage is dealt. Individual weapon damage is going up by the same proportion in order to keep DPS at level 85 about the same. This should ensure that, at lower levels, these abilities aren’t overpowered.


I'm all for balance at lower levels, but not at the expense of fun at max. This is going to hit melee classes where it hurts most: fun-factor.

Here's the breakdown for my class just to put it in perspective so people can see how big this change is:

Heartstrike 175% -> 90%
Runestrike 180% -> 90%
Frost strike 130% -> 65%
Obliterate 150% -> 115%
Scourge Strike 100% -> 75%
Festering Strike 150% -> 115%
Plague Strike 100% -> 50%
Death Strike 150% -> 75%
Necrotic Strike 100% -> 50%

These values are staggering differences, and even if overall DPS remains the same due to changes to white hits or diseases or what have you, the feel of it will be terrible. People like to see big numbers when they lay the smack down with their class-defining abilities. Some abilities are going to hit for less than a white hit unless the bonus damage values scale insanely.

This will be a terrible change aesthetically, and most definitely will reduce fun-factor.
Edited by Grishkana on 2/16/2012 9:07 AM PST


If it works like Dark Simulcrum - the new ability will overwrite Symbiosis on your action bar


Here's the process:

  • The Druid will select a raid or party member and cast Symbiosis on them.
  • The target cannot be another Druid.
  • The target gains a buff that tells them what spell they have temporarily learned, and that spell temporarily appears in their spellbook, and they can drag it to an action bar.
  • The Druid’s Symbiosis button will become the ability they gained from the target class.
  • The Symbiosis link is cancelled if: the Druid clicks off the Symbiosis buff, or the Druid or the target changes continents or enters or exits an instance, or the Druid or the target changes talent specializations.
  • Symbiosis fails to cast if Symbiosis is already active on that target.
  • Symbiosis cannot be cast in combat.
  • For the non-Druid target, the icon will revert to a placeholder (uncastable) Symbiosis icon when Symbiosis ends, but will become the Symbiosis-granted ability again the next time Symbiosis is cast on that target.
  • The ability gained from Symbiosis is always something chosen to match the Druid’s specialization and the target’s combat role.
  • The target always gets the same spell unless they change combat roles. A Druid of a given specialization always gets the same spell from each different class. If there is a change of specs, there is a change of spell.
  • Here are some examples of spells gained through Symbiosis. The spells shared focus on utility, cooldowns, and survival. (Adding Fireball to a Moonkin’s rotation sounds cool on paper, but wouldn’t actually be fun in the long run.)

    Balance: Chains of Ice, Mirror Image, Mass Dispel
    Feral: Feign Death (Play Dead!), Frost Nova, Soul Swap
    Guardian: Ice Trap, Fear Ward, Consecration
    Restoration: Ice Block, Hand of Sacrifice, Leap of Faith
    Hunter: Dash
    Warlock: Rejuvenation
    Holy Paladin: Rebirth
    Arms/Fury Warrior: Enrage
    Enhancement/Elemental Shaman: Solar Beam

    There are a lot more coming, but we'll keep some surprises for now, and many are still subject to change after testing.*

    *Including all of those just listed.




    I giggled like a girl when I read this.


    LIKE. A. GIRL!!!!
    100 Undead Warlock
    15865
    The current tool tip for Soulfire reads:

    "If used on a target above 25% health, the cast time doubles for 30 seconds"

    I know for Demo there is Decimation which reduces the cast time of this spell unless it hits a target above 25% health, I am just wondering if this is an error in the tooltip, or if this is also part of the design for soulfire in Destro as well.

    Also, the new Chaotic Energy at level 10 for destro affects both soulfire and fel flame, but fel flame only refresh corruption, which is no listed as a destro spell. Is this just to make destro have a better running instant cast spell, or will fel flame play more of a role in Destro than the other specs?
    Edited by Ricshard on 2/16/2012 9:10 AM PST
    100 Human Mage
    11685
    02/15/2012 01:14 PMPosted by Kaivax
    Feel free to have a look at the updated calculator, and then discuss it here!


    Sadly, I see that Improved Invisibility for mages remains the same. Please consider adding indefinite duration to Improved Invisibility as well, at least outside of battlegrounds, arenas, and dungeons, where the 20 second duration makes sense.

    It should be a signature power for mages like it is in other fantasy games, not just an aggro-reducer. Thanks very much.
    100 Goblin Death Knight
    10355
    So ... will DKs be able to use Gorefiend's Grasp to grief friendly newbs in starter areas?

    How about unflagged enemy faction? Are those friendly?
    90 Night Elf Druid
    13815
    1. After looking at the Paladin tree, I will be rolling one as soon as possible in preparation for MoP. Ret looks like it's going to be a blast with all the light hammer effects. Until now, it was a class that always seemed stale to me.

    2. Hunter tree looks great. I like that you got rid of the first tier options of different kinds of arcane shots. That wasn't bringing much to the table and it could always be used with glyphs later on, if desired. The last tier looks most interesting of all. I honestly can't wait to beta and find out which will be most effective; Glaive Throw, Power Shot, or Binding Shot (I admit, I'm a little giddy about the idea of Glaive Throw). I'm sure there will be more tweaks to the build before then, and I look forward to what is in store. Right now, I think I'll have some tough choices, because each tier offers some really difficult choices, the kind of thing I'd like to see for all classes.

    3. I believe Druid tree needs more work. Typhoon should definitely be learned with a glyph or something. Boomies and maybe heals would need this spell, but I can't think of a scenario where a tank or a feral dps would need to knock a foe away from them. It'd be helping their enemy, thus making it a moot choice. Along that line, Ursol's vortex also makes no sense to heals or boomie. Maybe those two talents could be combined into one choice on a tier and depending on spec, you either get Vortex (feral/guardian) or Typhoon (balance/healer)?

    With Displacer Beast and Wild Charge in tier 1 (the first would benefit pvp and nothing else; the latter could be used for pve as well as pvp) I doubt anyone is going to pick up Feral Swiftness, especially if we grab Disentanglement. Let's be honest, why do we need to move faster as a Druid if we can shift into cheetah with a movement increase and get a heal simultaneously? Would also be nice to see a glyph of Displacer Beast causing it to remove dots like vanish, otherwise we're not going to stay stealthed for long.

    All in all, Tiers 2, 4, and 6 look to me to be the strongest, in terms of tough choices with pros and cons for every spec.
    Edited by Dremin on 2/16/2012 9:35 AM PST
    Community Manager
    I just want to say that I'm really really excited about the talent/spec stuff for warlocks. I feel we have gotten such a cool set of updates. My favorite stuff (which I actually wouldn't mind seeing more of) are the talents and spec stuff that requires us to sacrifice health. In a lot of games this type of class or character can be called a "blood mage", taking health from ones self or allies do do serious damage to enemies. Making great sacrifices such as sometimes sacrificing family members (in some very lore heavy games) to wield immense power. I'm not really suggesting that we should be able to walk around org and sacrifice petty citizens for damage upgrades (all though it would make for an interesting game :-p), but I just really like that model of play/class.

    So things like the talents that take health to achieve certain things, or like the destro mastery, these are REALLY REALLY cool and are imo the exact thing for warlocks. Life tap is a no brainer. Please do keep these around, and I'm always welcoming of more of these ability flavors.

    The only thing I was slightly bummed about was losing the "wild imps" spell as demo. I thought this was going to be a great upgrade to the feel of the demo lock. Even is malady happens to do the same amount of damage, the wild imps just has the right feeling of being able to summon armies of minions to do your bidding. Yes there are still the wild imps from BoD, but like the ebon imp and the t12 2p, they are just nothing conscious, so it doesn't feel as cool. It's just too passive for my taste. If there is any way to bring back this type of summoning pets, I would be greatly happy.

    Otherwise though, I'm really really liking everything about the warlock stuff, from 4 dots (5 if you include malfic grasp) in aff, the awesome demo changes, and the stuff happening in destro, I'm more than excited.


    Wild Imps has not been cut. The code for it simply wasn't ready in time for this talent calculator update. Here, I'll show it to you!

    http://twitter.com/KaivaxBlizzard/status/170195844048498690/photo/1

    More warlock stuff for you:

  • Ember Tap will be received at a later level and will cost Embers.
  • Conflagrate has a 2.0 spell power coefficient (still working on this; subject to change).
  • Malady is a level 3 spell that is replaced by Immolate (Destruction) or Corruption (Demonology/Affliction).
  • Dark Soul is a replacement for Demon Soul based on spec. We’re experimenting with the exact mechanics.

  • Here is what Dark Soul looks like today:

    Affliction: http://twitter.com/KaivaxBlizzard/status/170197610542546944/photo/1
    Demonology: http://twitter.com/KaivaxBlizzard/status/170197739458666498/photo/1
    Destruction: http://twitter.com/KaivaxBlizzard/status/170197869423378433/photo/1



    90 Undead Warlock
    7695
    I just want to say that I'm really really excited about the talent/spec stuff for warlocks. I feel we have gotten such a cool set of updates. My favorite stuff (which I actually wouldn't mind seeing more of) are the talents and spec stuff that requires us to sacrifice health. In a lot of games this type of class or character can be called a "blood mage", taking health from ones self or allies do do serious damage to enemies. Making great sacrifices such as sometimes sacrificing family members (in some very lore heavy games) to wield immense power. I'm not really suggesting that we should be able to walk around org and sacrifice petty citizens for damage upgrades (all though it would make for an interesting game :-p), but I just really like that model of play/class.

    So things like the talents that take health to achieve certain things, or like the destro mastery, these are REALLY REALLY cool and are imo the exact thing for warlocks. Life tap is a no brainer. Please do keep these around, and I'm always welcoming of more of these ability flavors.

    The only thing I was slightly bummed about was losing the "wild imps" spell as demo. I thought this was going to be a great upgrade to the feel of the demo lock. Even is malady happens to do the same amount of damage, the wild imps just has the right feeling of being able to summon armies of minions to do your bidding. Yes there are still the wild imps from BoD, but like the ebon imp and the t12 2p, they are just nothing conscious, so it doesn't feel as cool. It's just too passive for my taste. If there is any way to bring back this type of summoning pets, I would be greatly happy.

    Otherwise though, I'm really really liking everything about the warlock stuff, from 4 dots (5 if you include malfic grasp) in aff, the awesome demo changes, and the stuff happening in destro, I'm more than excited.


    Wild Imps has not been cut. The code for it simply wasn't ready in time for this talent calculator update. Here, I'll show it to you!

    http://twitter.com/KaivaxBlizzard/status/170195844048498690/photo/1

    More warlock stuff for you:

  • Ember Tap will be received at a later level and will cost Embers.
  • Conflagrate has a 2.0 spell power coefficient (still working on this; subject to change).
  • Malady is a level 3 spell that is replaced by Immolate (Destruction) or Corruption (Demonology/Affliction).
  • Dark Soul is a replacement for Demon Soul based on spec. We’re experimenting with the exact mechanics.
  • Here is what Dark Soul looks like today:

    Affliction: http://twitter.com/KaivaxBlizzard/status/170197610542546944/photo/1
    Demonology: http://twitter.com/KaivaxBlizzard/status/170197739458666498/photo/1
    Destruction: http://twitter.com/KaivaxBlizzard/status/170197869423378433/photo/1


    Do you think you can give us an answer on what will be done with Chaos Bolt? Will Soul Fire use its graphic? Thanks. Would really appreciate it.
    Edited by Golbat on 2/16/2012 9:32 AM PST
    90 Troll Warlock
    16875

    Warlock: Rejuvenation


    Hmm, what? Why would we want a heal? We are damage dealers!
    If you are in the ballpark of utility, give us Cyclone =D
    100 Night Elf Priest
    7955
    Massive changes slapped on you overnight when MoP goes live is something I find most irritating. I'm going to stop playing now and letting my subscription run out at the end of Feb. and maybe come back after MoP goes live for a while and I read what critics have to say. I'm not going to play my characters for 4 or 5 more months more only to have them drastically altered overnight. That's not what I pay for.
    90 Night Elf Druid
    13815
    02/16/2012 09:38 AMPosted by Amandarah
    Massive changes slapped on you overnight when MoP goes live is something I find most irritating.


    I'm going to go out on a limb and say we can expect the class changes prior to MoP going live with the pre-patch like was done with Cata, so we can familiarize ourselves with the changes a month or two beforehand. That's just a guess though.
    100 Draenei Shaman
    9575
    Not a talent comment, but a spell comment -

    Wild Mushrooms/Bloom? Useless. pointless.

    I am NOT a fan of Wild Mushrooms. I *hate* gimmicky spells. I do offer a /salute to Boomkins who have managed to increase their DPS through its use, but for the most part, I find Wild Mushrooms to be a spell I resent taking up space on my action bars.

    Healing Mushrooms, as they now stand, are more than pointless. Let me be clear - I am NOT going to be wasting my GCDs planting Mushrooms, watching people move away from them DUE TO FIGHT MECHANICS, then waste another GCD to trigger the mushroom for ... less than 1K health? Seriously? And in that time, that's at least 4 GCDs wasted, more of you consider that placing the mushroom can easily take more time - and in that time I AM NOT HEALING!

    Honestly, what is the point? Why don't you have a spell that says "click this button to trigger your GCD and a five second lockout of all your spells?"

    From a talent perspective, Symbiosis is looking awesome. I can't *wait* to get my hands on "Leap of Faith" >.> That may not be a very useful spell, but it's got a lot of comedic potential.


    I think the reasoning behind the mushrooms is to give us an AoE heal that can be placed and not just activated off of a player like Efflorescence. I may be mistaken but I do remember reading that they want to make it so you can place all 3 mushrooms in a group together off one GCD. Anyways, I'm just excited for the shrooms cause it sounds cool. "Yo bro go stand in my shrooms they're magic..." lol. But I do think it's to give us AoE that is easily placed. All about mobility for druids I guess. After all, they are the go anywhere and heal anything healers.
    90 Tauren Druid
    14205
    Can you please, PLEASE change Innervate to be 10% of the target's mana pool? It is completely useless to cast for Feral and Guardian Druids and very amazing for Balance and Restoration Druids. If you just change it to 10% of the target's pool then at least it's the same for all of us.
    90 Blood Elf Paladin
    6865
    I'm really confused, or moreso curious. For the Warlock talent "Grimoire of Supremacy" seen here (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mists-of-pandaria/feature/talent-calculator#V!....0.), but which pet is which? And what is an Observer?

    I get this:

    Imp - Fel Imp
    Voidwalker - Voidlord
    Succubus - Shivan
    Infernal - Abyssal
    Doomguard - Terrorguard

    Is the Felhunter going to be an Observer, or the Felguard? And, again, what exactly is an Observer in this case?
    100 Human Warlock
    14920
    02/16/2012 09:48 AMPosted by Hakusa
    Is the Felhunter going to be an Observer, or the Felguard? And, again, what exactly is an Observer in this case?


    I imagine the observer is a Beholder-like mob. Like the ones you encounter in certain Burning Crusade dungeons and in Tol Barad.
    90 Dwarf Warlock
    13180
    Love the new trees!
    Will you guys be updating the Hunter pet trees as well? And if so, may we see your progress on them? :D
    100 Draenei Death Knight
    12920
    How, exactly, does the demonology warlock's Metamorphosis and Demonic Fury interact? Does going into Meta form drain Fury, or is it just a 'pick your form' thing?
    85 Troll Shaman
    2690
    Getting rid of Flamestrike's slow: Bad move.
    Getting rid of every Mage Push back: Bad move.

    I would seriously give away this new Incanter's Shield for the old Blastwave that had a pushback.
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