February 15 Update to Mists Talent Calculator

90 Worgen Warlock
15710
<Kaivax's Warlock Stuff>


THANK YOU!!

What does Demonic Tactics mean when it says the Imp, Succubus, and Voidwalker will "behave more intelligently?"


The concept of Symbiosis is cool, but it has also bothered me since I first read about it. I've had this entire expansion to suffer with Dark Intent. I have members of my group fighting over who should get it, I have to go to Elitist Jerks or some smart person to figure out which class/spec to put it on that benefits the group the most, I lose out on the proc when I'm alone or have no good targets to put it on (but I am balanced around having it, and for a while, shadow priests were too - they hated it), and it's annoying when there are multiple warlocks in a raid and no juicy candidates to put it on. It doesn't work in a circle like Focus Magic does.

I worry that Symbiosis will go in the same direction, and Blizzard is justifying it by giving people new buttons to press. However, I very much doubt that druids will have much fun when people around them are fighting for it. You'd think it'd be nice, but it's really not....They're fighting over your class, not you! I also guarantee Blizzard won't be able to balance the skill so that every Symbiote is equally desirable, so druids may fall victim to poor group compositions. I also am concerned about putting a skill in the spellbook to drag to our (rather full) bars. Someone that's never been a symbiote before could have no idea what's going on and never even notice they got a new skill. Perhaps an automatic button, similar to the Extra Action Button, would be better for everyone?

I just would like to warn that even though it looks fun now, it might not be so much fun when druids feel punished if they have no targets to put it on, or their very presence is causing drama over who should get the buff.



I'd also like to bring up a comparison between the warlock's level 90 talents, and some of the newer ones that have been created. Most classes (pretty much everyone but shamans, warlocks, and certain druid and rogue skills) are getting very cool-sounding, very iconic skills.

Paladins get Execution Sentence, a skill pretty much everyone will remember from BWD trash. Mages get to drop buffing runes, like the Iron Council. DKs are getting Freaking Remorseless Winter - they're being loaded with memorable skills that the Lich King had! Warriors even get the classic Storm Bolt. Super cool. Some of these skills will change the way certain specs and classes play, especially in the case of some mages, and that is how I feel the level 90 skills should work.

Hitting level 90 should mean you get to pick from 3 totally awesome, unique, and equally desirable clickie skills, as if to say "You made it to the end, here's your exciting reward!" They should never be passive unless they come with a clickie, and using it should make you feel like a hero. Some of these will make people feel like the raid bosses or mobs that always kicked their butts in the past. That's what makes them so incredibly exciting, especially for players that have been around to see the content of the last few expansions.

However, none of the warlock skills feel very cool at all. Only one is a clickie. It feels like Blizzard ran out of ideas and has no idea what to put in Mannoroth's Fury's place, so they dropped in a skill that has little use except to break every CC in a 10-mile radius, and to bring rogues out of stealth. Kil'Jaeden's downside is so huge that I may as well just not take it so that refreshing corruption while in motion doesn't give me a gimped dot...Most raiding warlocks are practiced enough at DPS-while-moving that Kil'jaeden's may be more of a detriment than a benefit. Archimonde's is extremely situational at best, another CC-breaker at worst. The last thing I need is for a caster to throw a bolt at me just before a paladin repents it, and my stupid passive talent reflects 20 damage back and breaks the CC.

None of these are very iconic, except for the fact that they have some demon names on them. But when I think of Archimonde, I don't think of damage reflection. I think of Dread Flames and Air Bursts and those @*#($@$@! Soul Charges.

Mannoroth was a pretty "meh" boss, and not very memorable. I spent a month doing Well of Eternity on my hunter for the staff, and I still couldn't remember where I had encountered Mannoroth (some mixing-up with Magtheridon may have been involved). But when I think of pit lords, I think of big meteor slashes that force people to stack to survive, Burns, large cleaving weapons, cripples, AOE shouts, cursing people to make super amazing doomguards pop out of their corpses, and generally being a huge, tough, intimidating demon that charges into the middle of his enemies and enjoys both receiving and inflicting injuries with a gigantic cleaving weapon. A pit lord is a bulky vicious tank, and makes himself a massive threat on the battlefield by demoralizing his foes with his mere presence.

With Archimonde's Cunning, it feels like Blizzard is trying to "fix" a problem with warlocks' sometimes-poor mobility by slotting it into a level 90 talent that could have been something awesome instead. If warlocks have a weakness that needs to be fixed, such as mobility, bake it into the class. Otherwise, you'll end up with a tier that looked like the old level 90 Hunter tier - They had one talent that pretty much all hunters would have HAD to take because it fixes a huge, glaring hole in their class (the one to remove the cooldown on freezing trap), and being forced to pass up the two other unique trapping options. I'm concerned the rogue level 90 tier is going the same way too - I doubt many rogues would take Shuriken.

25% HP cost on unbound will? That's insane!

PS: Why no Nether Ward? If mages are supposed to be slippery but flimsy and warlocks are supposed to be up close and tankey, how come the mages get the barriers, and the warlocks get to hurt themselves? I would also like to second an earlier poster's concern about Burning Rush adding another ability to our bars. Ask any warlock how full their bars are. Our bars are ridiculously full.
Edited by Naerina on 2/16/2012 11:20 AM PST
85 Troll Druid
6350
omg healing mushrooms..why!!!
100 Blood Elf Paladin
15185
Pursuit of Justice - you gain 10% speed bonus for each charge of Holy Power. Is this going to combine with Boundless Conviction? meaning it will now be possible to build up to 50% speed bonus if you sat on 5 Holy Power?
85 Human Paladin
13740
02/16/2012 11:16 AMPosted by Pereg
Pursuit of Justice - you gain 10% speed bonus for each charge of Holy Power. Is this going to combine with Boundless Conviction? meaning it will now be possible to build up to 50% speed bonus if you sat on 5 Holy Power?

I would guess not, given that the talent reads "...plus an additional 10% movement speed for each current charge of Holy Power," but it would be cool if it did work that way!
85 Undead Warlock
1865
02/16/2012 10:44 AMPosted by Taobender
Why are we given new ways to get rid of chunks of health at a time and no way to regain health?level 60 abilities, all of them sucklevel 90 abilities, all of them suckWhy would you guys even put an ability in the game that got rid of 25% of your health?


Right...why do all the Warlock abilities that would work well in emergencies cost Health ? That's exactly when you Dont' want to use any health is when these spells would be there most usefull duh ..

It's as if all the warlock changes were made soley for PvP by someone who's never PvP'd as a warlock

I am very dissappointed that Demonic Fury is still in the works, really ? Warlocks now have to build up combo points......this is making me want to vomit


I see demonic fury as the fel energy that a demo lock has to build inside for his most powerful demonic abilities. Mana is one thing, but fel energy is another animal that is useful for demonic powers. I can't really say much about it until I get to test it in beta and really see how it works, and I don't think it will have exactly the same feel as combo points.

Also, the health thing. Locks should make blood sacrifices for some abilities, that's the way the lore goes. Do I agree that some may need to be lowered a bit (*cough 25% *cough *cough), yes but I like the feature. I don't mind a challenge that makes me rethink how to use an ability best. The other new defensive and movement abilities gained here combined with the ones that drain health also create a lot of variety in how locks will be played. But again, the real feedback will come in beta when the new features can be tested to say "Oh yeah that health loss actually turned around to be a winning move!" or "Wow that combo doesn't work at all and I probably could have won if I didn't give up all that health"
90 Orc Death Knight
13240
Can we MAYBE get Army of the Dead looked at finally for this x-pack?

As a tanking cooldown - situational at best

As a dps cooldown - loss of dps to use it mid-fight

It has too long of a cooldown, costs too many runes, does too little damage, and can cause more chaos than good oftentimes.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
12735
Quick question on Templar's Verdict - the tool tip seems to indicate that it requires 3 Holy Power now...is it unable to be cast without 3?
85 Undead Warlock
1865
02/16/2012 11:13 AMPosted by Naerina
What does Demonic Tactics mean when it says the Imp, Succubus, and Voidwalker will "behave more intelligently?"


Same question
90 Worgen Warlock
15710
02/16/2012 11:20 AMPosted by Scrullmav
I see demonic fury as the fel energy that a demo lock has to build inside for his most powerful demonic abilities. Mana is one thing, but fel energy is another animal that is useful for demonic powers. I can't really say much about it until I get to test it in beta and really see how it works, and I don't think it will have exactly the same feel as combo points.


I think Demonic Fury is going to feel more like Runic Power mixed with Eclipse. It takes time to build up, and then you choose to go into a state where you can use it (Like Eclipse, but you choose precisely when it happens, and for how long), and then it takes time to consume it.



Also, the health thing. Locks should make blood sacrifices for some abilities, that's the way the lore goes. Do I agree that some may need to be lowered a bit (*cough 25% *cough *cough), yes but I like the feature.


I like the concept of being able to use our health bar as another resource to override something that would normally be a long cooldown or for certain emergencies. What concerns me is that Blizzard's stance at Blizzcon was "warlocks are like tanks, and mages are slippery." I'm wondering how I can be very much like a tank if I'm pressing buttons that kill myself. For it to work, the ways to gain health back must be just as effective as the ways to sacrifice it, so that the warlock has a time where its health is weak, and a time where its health is strong, and the challenge will lie in not allowing oneself to be weak at the wrong time, or for too long. If health-sacrificing-tank is Blizzard's aim, I should feel completely in charge of my own health bar, giving it and taking it as I wish. I fear that balancing this will be nearly-impossible though.

This means that warlocks will start riding the balance roller coaster of being too strong, then too weak, then too strong again, then ridiculously weak again, etc.
Edited by Naerina on 2/16/2012 11:32 AM PST
90 Worgen Druid
11755
A few ideas for druid Talents (I've already posted my thoughts on them):
(These are the ones I like Best)

Presence Of Nature: (Passive)
Resto: Lifebloom may be active on more than one target at a time however Lifebloom may still only stack on one target.
Feral: Feral Swipe provides a bleed effect equal to X% of its damage.
Guardian: Lacerate causes a random nearby target to also be afflicted with Lacerate, provided it is not already afflicted.
Balance: Hurricane/Astral Storm is no longer a channeled ability but now has a 10 second Cooldown.

Ursol's Resolve: 2 min CD
Place a buff on a friendly target that reduces damage taken by 10%, with the next 4 hits reducing damage by an additional 10%, after stacking 5 times this buff is removed.

Arcing Starshards: 1 min CD
Launches a series of Starshards at a target enemy, producing an effect based on your combat role.
Resto: Causes X nature damage to the enemy target and places a debuff, causing the next single target attack by each party or raid member to restore 10% of their total health.
Feral: Causes X damage as arcane and places a buff on the druid, causing the next 5 attacks done to cause an additional 35% damage as arcane damage.
Guardian: Causes x nature damage and causes the targets next 3 single target attacks to cause only 50% of thier intended damage.
Balance: Causes X spellstorm damage and places "Astral Instability" on the target, causing the druids next 3 direct attacks to radiate 50% of thier damage to all nearby enemies within 10 yards.

And I have dozens of others... please Blizz try harder for us druids... we love you... love us back?

Here are a few more I feel should replace the "Current" talents, that I feel would be more SYMBIOTIC to spec. (Some are small changes to existing talents)

Tier 1: Modifying "Wild Charge"
Still called wild charge, BUT:
Caster: Fly to an allys position and transfer to them 10% of your total health, regenerating that 10% over 10 seconds.
Bear: Charge an enemy and unbalance them, reducing thier damage done by 15% for 10 seconds.
Cat: Leap behind a target, dazing them and causing an effect based on whether the druid is in stealth, if stealthed Pounce the target, if not stealthed Ravage the target.
Moonkin: Leap backwards and launch a Starsurge at your current target that dazes them for 2 seconds.

Tier 2: Modifying "Cenarion Ward"
Places a ward on the target for 30 seconds that causes incoming attacks to cause the Cenarion Renewal effect, Causing the target to heal for 4,015 damage every 2 seconds for 6 seconds, stacking up to 3 times, after reaching 3 stacks the Cenarion Ward is removed.

Tier 3: Modifying "Typhoon"
Breath of Avianna
Summons the breath of Avianna in a cone in front of you, knocking back all enemies by 20 yards and inflicting them with Avianna's Wrath, causing them to suffer 3000 damage over 3 seconds, and healing all allies in front of you for 2000.

Tier 4: Honestly Tier 4 is perfect, it holds a useful ability for any Spec or form Bravo!

Tier 5: Replacing "Mighty Bash"
Ursol's Resolve: 2 min CD
Place a buff on a friendly target that reduces damage taken by 10%, with the next 4 hits reducing damage by an additional 10%, after stacking 5 times this buff is removed, stunning all nearby enemies for 2 seconds.

Tier 6: Replacing "Heart of the Wild"
Heart of the Druid: 5 Min CD
Resto: Reduces all damage taken by 50% and causes the druid to Regenerate 20% of their total health over the duration and increases damage done by 20% but reduces healing by 50%
Guardian: Causes all of your bleed Ticks to heal all nearby allies within 30 yards for 35% of their damage done, and increases all damage done by 20%.
Feral: Places you in front of your target and taunts, reducing your threat generated to zero and reducing all damage received by 90% for the duration, and decreasing all damage done by 80%.
Balance: Fuse the power of the Moon and Sun, causing all spells you cast to deal Spellstorm damage for the duration, and causing all damage done Slowly cause a stacking debuff on your target, each strike causes the target to radiate 1000 healing per second for each non periodic spell that strikes, stacking up to 5 times.

Just My 2 Cents
Edited by Kilani on 2/16/2012 11:44 AM PST
90 Troll Druid
9540
How are the devs planning to adress energy problems that Rogues and Druids are having?
Rogues are sitting on a lot of energy with no interesting spells to use while Druid often starve. Also the extra 20 energy when casting tiger fury was interesting. Do you plan on adding it back on a glyph(since bloodleting is already on rip) or something like that?
85 Undead Warlock
1865
I like the concept of being able to use our health bar as another resource to override something that would normally be a long cooldown or for certain emergencies. What concerns me is that Blizzard's stance at Blizzcon was "warlocks are like tanks, and mages are slippery." I'm wondering how I can be very much like a tank if I'm pressing buttons that kill myself. For it to work, the ways to gain health back must be just as effective as the ways to sacrifice it, so that the warlock has a time where its health is weak, and a time where its health is strong, and the challenge will lie in not allowing oneself to be weak at the wrong time, or for too long. If health-sacrificing-tank is Blizzard's aim, I should feel completely in charge of my own health bar, giving it and taking it as I wish. I fear that balancing this will be nearly-impossible though.

This means that warlocks will start riding the balance roller coaster of being too strong, then too weak, then too strong again, then ridiculously weak again, etc.


*nod
I deffinitly agree and share your concerns. My only input was on what Blizz seems to be going for. I'm not sure exactly what to respond with as far as how exactly the tug-of-war aspect of this might go since I'm not currently working with it. I try to do the math and see the scenarios in my head, but more times then not I turn out to be off. Basically I'm just sick of seeing all the hate statements saying "this sucks" with no reasoning and usually ignorance as to how their own class is supposed to work. I thank you for having some insightful analysis.
90 Orc Death Knight
16140
I have a couple questions/concerns regarding the updated Death Knight talents, mostly pertaining to the level 15 talents.

Firstly, is Vile Spew planned to be similar to using Corpse Explosion on the ghoul during WotLK, where it explodes and dies when cast, or is it going to be more along the lines of a simple AoE ability centered around the pet rather than the player?

Second, is Unholy Blight going to do AoE damage over the 10 seconds or is it merely another AoE disease application effect? Going by the current tooltip wording it seems like the latter.

Finally, a concern regarding the Unholy spec. I noticed Ebon Plaguebringer no longer applies 8% spell damage taken and instead applies 4% physical damage taken, similar to Brittle Bones. What concerns me is the fact that Unholy will be losing Ebon Plague as its third disease as the new version is tied to Blood Plague. Is that intended and will Scourge Strike's disease damage bonus scaling be altered to compensate? I realize nothing is set in stone and it's very early to tell what coefficients and scaling will look like, but one reason I like Unholy is due to the extra disease it gets.
85 Tauren Warrior
11170
I asked this on another thread, but I'm curious.

What is the thought process behind the Sunder Armor debuff?

Druids - FF - full stack of 3, insta cast, at range, 30 seconds.
Rogues - expose armor - 1 stack per application, 25 energy, lasts 30 seconds
Warriors - sunder/devastate - 1 stack per application, 4.5 second cooldown, lasts 30 seconds.

Doesn't it seem odd that the class that is most concerned with the targets armor has to take 9+ seconds to get the debuff up?
90 Goblin Hunter
8895
The Druid talents are shaping up pretty well, and I am excited as all get out for Symbiosis. I would love, love a feral version of Soul Swap, the prospect is ridiculously intriguing to me. Thank you Blizzard!

Now, to the specifics:

[15] I am really, really sad that Feline Swiftness is thrown into the first tier. Unless you’re removing the positional requirement from Shred, I don’t think cats are going to have much of a choice here. The nerf to displacer beast is disappointing too. I realize having a CoS and Vanish in one button has the potential to be incredibly powerful, but a longer CD might be appropriate in that case. Without a DoT clear, the ability becomes significantly weaker and less useful. And again, as a raiding cat I can’t even look at Wild Charge when Feline Swiftness has to be talented into. You gave Blood DKs the courtesy of removing Outbreak from their talents, I hope you will do the same for us.

[30] Despite what other posters are saying, I always enjoyed playing a part in my own survivability, so I like this tier. I was sad when I found out we’re losing SI, and this helps make up for that. I’d imagine one is going to end up more powerful than the others, but in the meantime I’m having a hard time choosing.

[45] This is ok. CC isn’t the most exciting part of the game, but having more options never hurts, especially in BGs. Typhoon looks like a lot of fun for LM shenanigans, and perhaps would help a bit with caster survivability (Moonkins might tell me otherwise), but I think the first two outshine it.

[60] I’m really eager to see what Force of Nature does, I’d like another dps CD. Soul of the Forest leaves me shrugging, as I rarely feel particularly energy starved, and having to wait for it to pool a little bit doesn't really bother me. Being able to use Ravage a few times every 3 minutes is certainly a small dps increase, but nothing to get excited about. To be honest I think our current 2P bonus is more practical and useful than this.

[75] Having two CC tiers is a bit of a letdown. One is ok, but more than that feels redundant. I’d like to see you pick the best out of lvl 45 and 75 and get rid of the rest. For what it’s worth, I can see Guardian, Resto, and PvPers get more use out of this.

[90] While I’ve found something positive about every tier so far barring lvl 15, this one isn’t so hot. I don’t understand why you’re giving us options like the first two talents after removing most of our healing spells. At least then we’d have some more options if we had to play emergency healer, but spamming Rejuv or whatever piddly spell you’ve left us with won’t be much fun. While I love being a hybrid, I’m not sure if these spells are the right way to go. With the heal tacked onto Disentanglement, that seems to clear way to go for me, PvE-wise. Knowing I can do some self healing when needed is more valuable than being able to throw out some juiced up Rejuvs “just in case”.
Edited by Hammersmark on 2/16/2012 12:01 PM PST
90 Troll Druid
9540
Also a suggestion to force of nature: Make it so the summons are spec relevant.
Feral Summons 3 cats, Balance summons 3 owls, Guardian 3 bears, resto 3 treants.
7 Tauren Shaman
0
02/16/2012 11:21 AMPosted by Karazorel
Quick question on Templar's Verdict - the tool tip seems to indicate that it requires 3 Holy Power now...is it unable to be cast without 3?
they might as well make it like that, because you lose a ton of dps if you misclick it at 1 or 2 hp
100 Night Elf Hunter
11700
At first glance, with the seeming 50% nerfs to almost all Hunter shots, it seemed like you may as well remove the class from the game. I hope that, as you said, these are not the final versions of what we will see.
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