February 15 Update to Mists Talent Calculator

02/16/2012 11:47 AMPosted by Danielfboone
At first glance, with the seeming 50% nerfs to almost all Hunter shots, it seemed like you may as well remove the class from the game. I hope that, as you said, these are not the final versions of what we will see.


If i had to guess, it has to have something to do with scaling (Stat, or gear). There's no way they would simply hit the hunter class with such a huge nerf bat without compensation somewhere else. Also remember, right now, our 4pc literally doubles focus, so it could have something to do with us at currently at 85, and will scale differently at 90.
Edited by Jashj on 2/16/2012 11:52 AM PST
90 Troll Druid
9540
02/16/2012 11:47 AMPosted by Danielfboone
At first glance, with the seeming 50% nerfs to almost all Hunter shots, it seemed like you may as well remove the class from the game. I hope that, as you said, these are not the final versions of what we will see.

They are nerfing the damage on every class.
55 Orc Death Knight
100
So 15 feb. 2012 Rogue new talents
combat=nerf
sub=nerf
Assassination=nerf

So at the begin of Cata combat rogues were a joke. Now at the end of cata they are playable best spec atm. Now Assassination is a joke.Must of cata raiding rogues were not an option for raiding until Ds. So rogues are good at the end of cata we are going to get nerfs across every spec. Combat spec backstab uses less energy. Tell me one combat rogue that uses backstab i will show you a bad combat rogue. So pvp we will use wound and crippling in Mop none of them will do damage. So sub pvp will not do any poison damage.
So we are going to have to go thru 90% of mop to get good like cata.

85 Tauren Druid
7700
02/16/2012 11:55 AMPosted by Tolazytolvl
So pvp we will use wound and crippling in Mop none of them will do damage.


Rogues are supposed to have a damage poison and a utility poison at the same time, if this has changed its news to me.
100 Worgen Death Knight
15315
One issue with blood death knights with the talents is there is no buff to Icebound Fortitude like there is currently in Sanguine Fortitude talent. This means it will cost 20 runic power to use and only provide 20% reduction instead of what now is

Another thing I noticed is there is currently no runic power mastery. That makes me wonder if it is simply being removed to built in.

I feel the new talents added into the tree are nice and cool ideas to add. One thing I wonder is how diseases are going to be applied now that blood has a 1 minute cooldown on outbreak. I feel that every death knight hates having to use icy touch and plague strike to get diseases up instead of getting more death strikes in.

The only tier of talents I find quite useless in pve is the level 45 talents. Asphyxiate is cool in design but makes me wonder why it would be useful with remorseless winter's stun. I also love the death pact change because having to sac a pet as unholy really hurts when you have to use it when he is in dark transformation.

One of the only talents I don't like is desecrated ground. It just doesn't feel like it would every be useful, even in a pvp situation against any caster that can move out of it. I feel it should be removed also since the paladin one got removed in the past talent update.
55 Orc Death Knight
100
NEW TALENTS
Wound Poison - No longer deals damage. Now has a static proc rate of 50%.
90 Troll Hunter
13180
Question: Why did attacks using % weapon damage drop so much?

Answer: We are in the process of recalculating the way damage is dealt. Individual weapon damage is going up by the same proportion in order to keep DPS at level 85 about the same. This should ensure that, at lower levels, these abilities aren’t overpowered.


Isn't that just going to exacerbate the problem of weapon upgrades being much more valuable/sought after than other pieces of gear for DPS classes?

Unless of course that's the intended effect, in which case carry on.
I see that Dispels have an 8s cooldown, but Soothe/Shiv/Tranq don't seem to.

Is Savage Roar truly going to go back to the "must maintain 100% uptime to deal competitive damage" version from WotLK, or is this a tooltip error (hoping for the latter)?

30% of all of Feral's damage coming from 1 finishing move that can trivially be dispelled is bad design, blizz.
85 Tauren Druid
7700
NEW TALENTS
Wound Poison - No longer deals damage. Now has a static proc rate of 50%.


Rogues poisons seem to be under two categories now Lethal and Non-lethal which Wound Poison probably falls under Non-lethal therefore the damage has been taken away. You will have in addition to Wound Poison either Instant or Deadly which would be Lethals.
90 Gnome Priest
10945
Question: Why did attacks using % weapon damage drop so much?

Answer: We are in the process of recalculating the way damage is dealt. Individual weapon damage is going up by the same proportion in order to keep DPS at level 85 about the same. This should ensure that, at lower levels, these abilities aren’t overpowered.


Isn't that just going to exacerbate the problem of weapon upgrades being much more valuable/sought after than other pieces of gear for DPS classes?

Unless of course that's the intended effect, in which case carry on.


In terms of making weapon upgrades more valuble, yes, but it also eliminates 1-3 additional weapon slots to fill per class.

As of the last update i had heard, they're severely scaling class/weapon combos

Hunters now use only a ranged weapon -2 slots
mages/warlocks/priests use wands -2 slots
removing relics -1 slot
warriors/rogues losing ranged weapon slot -1 slot
i'm sure that's not the only combos that are changing, but just an example.

this seems like it would make the entire game easier to balance doing this, by removing "stat sticks", and concentrating on one weapon.
100 Night Elf Druid
16970
02/16/2012 06:51 AMPosted by Moohoof
It also looks like disorienting roar no longer automatically triggers bear form. I hope that isn't the case. Both of those spells looked to bring shapeshifting back into druid gameplay which is something we've been missing for a very long time.

I strongly disagree with this. I was very happy to see the removal of "Unusable" in certain forms or "Activates" a certain form on so many of the talents. There's no reason to stay in Bear Form after using Disorienting Roar (they won't be attacking you while disoriented), so being forced into Bear Form would be nothing but an extra GCD used up to get back in Cat Form or Moonkin Form for Ferals and Balance Druids, no effect on Guardian Druids, and a momentary aesthetic change for Restoration Druids who could automatically come out of Bear Form immediately after being forced into it.
Edited by Amadis on 2/16/2012 12:16 PM PST
85 Draenei Shaman
10680
In Cataclysm Unleash Elements was pretty much a wash for Resto/Ele and pretty useful for Enhance but overall a very boring talent. I hope there may possibly be plans to update it for MoP. I can't read if the effects were changed on the calculator.
55 Orc Death Knight
100
But that means you cant use both crippling and wound. So i can slow them down or let them heal for mega heal what a choice.
90 Troll Death Knight
19820
Loved the old unholy blight animation: it was understated and dirty looking. Albeit made me feel like Pigpen from Peanuts somewhat... maybe a new animation (if there's one in the works) could try and emphasize more BUGS and less DIRT, preferably so we are able to distinguish at some distance (but not too unrealistic). e: Able to distinguish from insect swarm would also be a plus. Good luck with all that, I have faith

For my way-too-late-to-the-party question, what happened to desecration? DKs have no more aoe slow (e: and/or passive slow) option other than Chilblains (which is replacement option for Death's Advance)? Not that I hate casting chains of ice over and over again, but I really hate casting chains of ice over and over again.

Also, does Vile Spew have a cooldown and/or does it sacrifice the pet? Does it work with temporary minions? eg frost ghoul, gargoyle, aotd, bloodworm?

Looking forward to Mists. Thanks for the replies so far, Kaivax.
Edited by Xoss on 2/16/2012 12:17 PM PST
85 Undead Warlock
7535
Here's a question:

Why is demo becoming a melee spec?

PLEASE don't fix what isn't broken. Demonology has a solid theme, is getting amazing spells, and what makes you 'want' to be in melee range atm is broken class mechanics that could be fixed in MoP.

55 Orc Death Knight
100
I see nerfs nerfs for rogues. Then i see more damage for mages, come on. Icy lance damage needs a nerf. I need a good paid lobbyist like mages.
100 Tauren Shaman
11935
Can you answer this for us: What is being done with spell crit for DPS specs?

I notice that Boomkins and SPriests no longer get the 100% crit damage boost. Ele Shaman get only 50% boost from Elemental Fury.

Is this being done to "tone down" spell damage, or are crits going to be 2x baseline for everybody?

Basically, I want to know if this means that Enhancement Shaman and Rogues are finally getting 2x spell crits.
Edited by Matuk on 2/16/2012 12:21 PM PST
86 Tauren Death Knight
4025
Still need to fix the druids last talent teir, there is only one that makes any sense and it's only use is pvp
100 Blood Elf Paladin
16190
Paladin

Tier 1 (LV 15): The talents, while nice, are all speed related, with PoJ winning hands down since all three specs rely on holy power for their abilities. There's really no contest between a once per minute 70% speed boost for eight seconds, a 45% speed boost for three seconds on judgement, or a permanent 10% speed boost with a bonus 10% per charge of holy power. This tier is not a fun choice, it's no choice.


Huh. I was actually going for Long Arm of the Law because you have roughly a 50% uptime on a 45% speed boost. Boundless Conviction states that abilities never "use" more than 3 Holy Power, so Pursuit of Justice will have a 40% speed boost at 3+ Holy Power.

However, the way I see it is that Pursuit of Justice is a chunk of additional Holy Power exactly when you don't need it; when you're bashing someone's face in. Not to mention that you'll be constantly spending Holy Power anyway, so when I'm in PvP the last thing I want to do is have any sort of qualms about whether or not I am going to use Templar's Verdict, etc. to go for the kill or save the Holy Power incase they try to run.

Plus Long Arm of the Law has amazing synergy with the Protection version of Sanctified Wrath, in which case Protection can easily have a 100% upkeep on the 45% buff for 20 seconds AND take Selfless Healer to gain rapid-fire instant cast mana-free Flash of Lights. But then again, I'm a Protection Paladin. Regardless, I don't think that this tier is as much as a no-brainer as you think it is.

Tier 2 (LV 30): Repentance available to any spec? Cool! Burden of Guilt? That's our gap closer for PvP we've been waiting so long to get. Yay! Fist of Justice...needs some clarification. It replaces Hammer of Justice, a ranged spell, and the talent does not indicate whether or not this version is melee range only or up to X yards away. It has half the duration of the HoJ ability, but without some tooltip clarification, it leads one to believe it's melee only which makes it rather subpar, especially assuming Rebuke survives into MoP.


According to the Talent calculator, Fist of Justice has a 20 yard range and has half the cooldown of Hammer of Justice. It's basically the old Improved Hammer of Justice talent with parts of Templar's Verdict mixed in.

Tier 3 (LV 45): All healing related talents, with different flavors. Could make for interesting setups for Retribution and Prot, but not really much in the way of a fun choice for Holy. Because Selfless healer requires judging, something Holy hates having to constantly do, it's a nonstarter. Sacred Shield, while nice on paper, requires a full 3 charge Holy Power, making it rather situational for Holy. Eternal Flame seems to win out here without much contest simply for ease of use and as a buffer to ease pressure on the healer.


I've already mentioned how Selfless Healer can be awesome for Protection. For Holy, I would imagine that it comes down to how long the Selfless Healer buff lasts, because Holy does need to judge at least once every 60 seconds to keep their Spell Haste buff active on themselves.

This version of Sacred Shield is exactly like the old version. It puts a buff on the target and every 5 seconds or so it will protect them from a damaging attack (the buff itself doesn't fade when the shield fades; the proc'ed shield and this talent are seperate). It also increases the Critical Strike chance of Word of Glory on the target by 30% for 30 seconds; because of the new Beacon of Light change (most healing spells generate Holy Power), you can probably get two or three super-charged holy words in during this time.

This is another tier where I think you're overlooking two of the other choices, as when I look at Eternal Flame, all I see is a Renew wannabe.

Tier 4 (LV 60): Possible interesting setups, but only really for Prot or Ret. Again Holy really doesn't have much of a choice - Hand of Purity wins hands down as Unbreakable Spirit requires constant Holy Power expenditure to be even remotely useful, and only Prot and Ret spend Holy Power constantly - Holy saves it for when they need a big heal or a specialized ability to be used. Clemency's cooldown is much too long at five minutes, meaning that its only real use is going to be in Arenas as a one-off minor version of Cold Snap for Paladins.


I agree that Clemency needs something else to make it more attractive (as a Protection Paladin, its probably the only talent that only situationally and indirectly improves Survivability). However, Unbreakable Spirit does NOT require a constant spending of Holy Power because it caps at the cooldown reduction at 50% of the total duration. This means you still have to wait out half of the duration (5 minutes for Lay on Hands, 2.5 for Divine Shield, and 30 seconds for Divine Protection).

Personally, I think this talent shows that Lay on Hands needs a reduction in its cooldown. I think its the only high-frequency ability that has a 10 minute cooldown still. There's really no need for that anymore.

Tier 5 (LV 75): What's going on with Holy Avenger? It is a LV 75 talent, but affects a LV 85 ability, making it utterly useless for ten full levels. A bit of an oversight somewhere. Divine Purpose is situational due to RNG, and not nearly as likely to be chosen as Sanctified Wrath, which grants each spec unlimited use of their primary spec-driven ability during Avenging Wrath's duration. I expect much back and forth balancing Ret and Prot with this one before it settles into something balanced.


I agree with Holy Avenger. Maybe its a sign of more talent / learned ability shuffling? The disadvantage to Sanctified Wrath is that it isn't always there. Divine Purpose procing means that it is completely independent of any activated button presses, which means that you don't have to worry about it "expending its cooldown," if you will. That makes it incredibly powerful in the RNG sense; it really comes down to whether or not you want to play the roulette. It might need a better proc chance though to make it more attractive.

While I won't say that Sanctified Wrath isn't an awesome choice, Judgment isn't really a "specialization-drived spell" for Protection. About all we get from Judging is a charge of Holy Power. Instead, what makes Sanctified Wrath good for Prot is the fact that it is very synergizable with other talents, as I mentioned earlier. I don't think that they want synergy like that in the design, however, so I wouldn't be surprised if it gets changed to something like "Removes the cooldown on your Crusader's Strike / Hammer of the Righteous" for Protection.

Tier 6 (LV 90): The first two are really Holy-centric. Only the last one has any real use outside of Holy, for its damage aspect. There's some choice here, but it could be a little bit better.


First of all, I REALLY love that we get the falling Armegeddon mechanic from Utgrade Pinnacle. Great work, Blizzard! Second, I agree that the first two are VERY Holy-centric. I'm personally not sure what could be done to change them, but I will say that Holy Prism is remarkably close to the 4.2 version of Holy Radiance, which is a little strange to me. I like the concept of Light's Hammer, but I wonder if it woudn't be better for it to just modify Consecration. Ultimately, more light (heh puns) needs to be shed on all three of those talents before judgment (heh more puns) can be made; i.e., how does their targeting work; do they need a target or can they be click-and-placed like Death and Decay (Light's Hammer is REALLY looking to be like a fusion of Death and Decay / Holy Word: Sanctuary), etc.
7 Tauren Shaman
0
new long arm doesn't seem to have the minimum range crap, so maybe it's actually good
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