February 15 Update to Mists Talent Calculator

90 Human Mage
10120
I really do like the changes made to the calculator. However, as a die-hard pvp frost mage (I do have mages for the other two specs), I am concerned about seeing Frost lose almost all of its defining characteristics (with the exception of the Water Elemental). Having many of its abilities going baseline means other things need to be created to give it a different identity.

In fact, Arcane (Slow) and Fire (Dragon's breath and Impact) now have greater control and as much survivability as Frost (if chosen), if not more due to that increased control. To explicitly show this, the following Frost abilities went baseline: Shatter, Deep Freeze, Ice Barrier, and Cold Snap (very nerfed version). Frost lost access to Impact. Improved Cone of Cold and Shattered Barrier just disappeared.

Fingers of Frost, while now having 3 charges (very nice), is now only gained in two ways in pvp (unless Pet Freeze remains) - mainly standstill casting of Frostbolt instead of all chill effects. This means actively LoS-ing targets greatly diminish this chance (Early Frost is gone and Frostbolt back to 2s cast time - was 1.5s cast time prior to this update along with Fireball).

Frost lost more comparatively and I don't really see that damage gain in return (but quite apparent in Arcane with Arcane Charges and Fire possibly proccing Pyroblast now from each crit). I hope that this will be addressed as I stated in my larger, earlier post. Would very much like all three to be as close to being equally viable in pvp.

I also hope something new will be done to the Water Elemental, as it dies too easily for being on a 3min cd (no longer even on Coldsnap if someone chooses to kill it and Permafrost is gone for healing it). Having just one ability after two expansions isn't interesting at all. Being unable to use Freeze because the pet is too far is another problem as with many other pet issues (it sometimes disappears at start of arenas). It would be great if the pet's waterbolt was instant, but had a cd as it barely gets a chance to cast at an actively los-ing target in pvp. This way, it can instant cast a bolt, then catch up to its master (passive) or run closer to its target (assist/defense). Still waiting to see if it gained anything new for MoP (if nothing, at least a new skin & sounds).

Also concerned that Teleports and Portals are missing. Still no word as to why armor switching instantly was gutted for PvP.

Still, tree changes are quite amazing from the previous iteration, despite the above concerns.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9645
We are iterating a lot on tank rotations right now. We want rage (and all tank resources) to be something players actually use for mitigation, because we think that will be more fun than having a resource that gets ignored. Under this model, Protection warriors can’t have many DPS abilities that cost rage, because rage will be too valuable for Shield Block and Shield Barrier on fights where survival is a challenge. An ability with no resource cost needs some kind of cooldown or it will just be macro’ed and / or spammed, which isn’t a lot of fun.

Prot warriors have a lot of abilities to manage: Shield Slam, Revenge, Devastate, Thunder Clap, Shield Block and so on, as well as several emergency buttons to handle situations such as streaming adds. We’re okay with melee specs having an occasional free GCD, as long as it doesn’t happen with frustrating regularity.


Question:

What kind of a rotation are you looking at for Protection and Retribution Paladins?

Personally, I feel like Ret's current rotation is abysmal right now. It's heavily proc-reliant, and already has open GCDs with "frustrating regularity."

Removing Exo procs from Ret's rotation kit seems like it will only further stifle the rotation, leaving us with CS, TV, and Judge (We still have Judge, right?) and then a handful of cooldowns. Am I missing something here?

On that topic, if Prot Pally Crusader Strike and HotR are being pushed to a 4.5 second cooldown, I'm very worried that will A) cripple Holy Power generation and flow and B) make the rotation feel more like Ret does currently, which, as I've said, I can't stand.


Should be retained through death.


I didn't read confirmation either way.


If may be lost due to death...so perhaps useful if the Druid is incapacitated in some way or busy in another portion of the raid fight.
90 Troll Priest
14310


I didn't read confirmation either way.


If may be lost due to death...so perhaps useful if the Druid is incapacitated in some way or busy in another portion of the raid fight.


Or you know, tanking. You could give your Holy Paladin Rebirth while tanking as a Guardian Druid.
90 Night Elf Druid
15975
I see that Dispels have an 8s cooldown, but Soothe/Shiv/Tranq don't seem to.

Is Savage Roar truly going to go back to the "must maintain 100% uptime to deal competitive damage" version from WotLK, or is this a tooltip error (hoping for the latter)?

30% of all of Feral's damage coming from 1 finishing move that can trivially be dispelled is bad design, blizz.


It seems like they're doing this with other specs/classes too (like Balance's Insect Swarm), and I'm curious to know if that's going to be dispellable as well... but even if it is, pressing Insect Swarm once for extra damage for 1 minute isn't comparable to Savage Roar's 5 combo point, 25 energy for extra damage for 42 seconds. If we use 1-2 combo points instead, it only lasts for ~20 seconds.

I like the extra complication it adds to Feral's PvE rotation, but for PvP it's a terrible gimp. One of the main things I hope changes by release.
Hmm, looking through the destruction only abilities, I came across Auto Wand. Does the wand keep shooting while I'm casting or does casting a spell cancel the ability? Really hoping the answer is that the wand will keep shooting. :)
90 Tauren Priest
12635
Hunters now use only a ranged weapon -2 slots
mages/warlocks/priests use wands -2 slots
removing relics -1 slot
warriors/rogues losing ranged weapon slot -1 slot


Some of this is incorrect.

Hunters will only use ranged weapons.
The ranged slot and relic slot are being removed from all other classes.
Wands are being changed so that instead of being a ranged-slot item, they're now a main-hand item. Meaning they'll have itemization commensurate with other other main-hand casting weapons.

The end result is that instead of main-hand/off-hand/ranged or relic slot itemization being spread across three slots for all classes, it'll be spread across two slots for all classes, where both slots can be filled by a two-handed weapon.
93 Orc Death Knight
11220
I am very impressed wit the updates to the DK talent system.

Tier 1's Roiling Blood is probably going to always be my tanking choice, but all 3 talents could be useful for DPS.

Tier 2 is possibly my favorite in terms of possibilities from a tanking standpoint. Icy Grip is a great dungeon talent, Lichborne is a great Main tank/physical fight talent, and Anti-Magic Zone is great for heaving magic damage fights (I'm looking at YOU, Madness). Icy Grip is less enticing for DPS, but the other 2 hold up for all specs.

Tier 3 will certainly be useful if we have a lot of adds to kite in the coming raid content, but if not, I'll certainly be going for the stun!

Tier 4's Vampiric Blood still wins for me as a tanking cooldown, especially with the change to Death Pact.

Tier 5 will have to do a lot to prove to me that I want anything besides Runic Corruption, but I'm open to being persuaded.

Tier 6 just looks like fun no matter where you turn.

Soul Reaper (the new lvl 87 talent) looks like it's going to give us an interesting twist on the execute phase, with a bonus for using it on trash packs, even.

Right now I'm getting a general DPS feeling that these talents and such are swinging back over to Unholy's favor, as there are 4 abilities in 3 tiers that do shadow damage (which would be modified by the Unholy mastery) versus 1 ability in the final tier that does frost damage. Also, all this talk of abilities requiring Death Runes could also give Unholy an advantage, as their rotation generates 4 death runes instead of 2. It could also be that these abilities just even out the frost vs. unholy damage, which would be great.
Community Manager
I don't see Teleport and Portal spells anywhere for mages. Should I be concerned or is this an oversight and we actually DO have it but it's not listed?


Fear not! Mages will still have all their Teleports and Portals. At this point, we decided to hide them from the talent calculator to reduce clutter.
I see that Dispels have an 8s cooldown, but Soothe/Shiv/Tranq don't seem to.

Is Savage Roar truly going to go back to the "must maintain 100% uptime to deal competitive damage" version from WotLK, or is this a tooltip error (hoping for the latter)?

30% of all of Feral's damage coming from 1 finishing move that can trivially be dispelled is bad design, blizz.


It seems like they're doing this with other specs/classes too (like Balance's Insect Swarm), and I'm curious to know if that's going to be dispellable as well... but even if it is, pressing Insect Swarm once for extra damage for 1 minute isn't comparable to Savage Roar's 5 combo point, 25 energy for extra damage for 42 seconds. If we use 1-2 combo points instead, it only lasts for ~20 seconds.

I like the extra complication it adds to Feral's PvE rotation, but for PvP it's a terrible gimp. One of the main things I hope changes by release.


I could see SR remaining as the +30% damage version (though that's stupid design... one ability that accounts for 30% of an entire damage rotation...) if and only if is were no longer an Enrage effect and thus couldn't be Soothed off.

EDIT:

Additionally, Feral will still have a LOT of trouble utilizing finishing moves in MoP as our energy regen is static (except with regard to Soul of the Forest, which basically makes finishing moves 10 energy cheap; it should be 4 energy per combo point).

Feral needs some way to generate combo points besides using energy... we just don't have enough in PvP and with SR becoming mandatory again, I don't see how we can use Maim or FB without letting Rip fall off... and that completely destroys our damage output.

The design at present where SR does not account for 30% of our entire damage rotation is where it should remain. There is no reason to penalize Feral in PvP by making them keep up a finishing move indefinitely... especially given the huge cost of said ability.
Edited by Reygahnci on 2/16/2012 1:36 PM PST
10 Human Paladin
0
I just wanted to say thanks, Kaivax, for all your information sharing / question answering.
90 Undead Warlock
11785
How exactly does the warlock *portal* Demonic Gateway function?
Community Manager
02/16/2012 09:59 AMPosted by Klaudandus
Can we get more info regarding Mana Regen for protection paladins? From what I read, it seems the only mana regen source comes from GbtL with a passive 5% mana regen every 2 secs -- and that's it.


There are some incorrect mana costs displayed in the talent calculator for some Protection and Retribution Paladins spells right now. For example, Consecration actually costs 7% of base mana, not 22%.*

They currently are designed such that they are mana positive while doing their damage and going through their tanking rotations, and stay near full mana the whole time. Mana should not be a consideration to their rotation, rather, it will act as a limit on how much off-healing and other utility spells they can cast.

*At the moment; subject to change.
90 Human Paladin
6495
Something I was wondering about Sacred Shield. Does it consume the 3 Holy Power required for it to activate?

It just seems off that it would crit chance buff Word of Glory, but also be an HP dump (assuming WoG still needs HP in MoP, it may not).
Edited by Sambronson on 2/16/2012 1:46 PM PST
90 Troll Druid
9540
Concerning symbiosis, it looks like the last tier of druids talents is made around shapeshifting. Shouldn't it be made around symbiosis?
100 Blood Elf Mage
13755
Mostly taken from http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4063167982 --

Question: What is "base mana regeneration"? How does mana regen work for casters (or mages)?
Answer: Healers get a significant amount of mana regeneration from Spirit, even during combat. Additionally, all mana users have a small amount of mana regeneration -- currently about 1% of maximum mana per second. With Invocation, that 1%/sec is removed. Things like Innervate will still allow you to regenerate mana, but you won’t passively regenerate any with Invocation.


Wait... so 1% mana per second means 5% Mp5. And if a Mage in standing in his Rune of Power, that's doubled, meaning he gains 10% of his mana every 5 seconds. That's almost three times as much mana regen as Glyphed Mage Armor. :O And that just seems fairly ridiculous, in a very good way.
100 Dwarf Hunter
18055
For the most part, these new Hunter talents are pure awesomesauce. However there is one particular talent that worries me: Exhilaration.

Giving us a self heal above and beyond Spirit bond: Good. Tying it to Disengage: Bad. There are just too many fights where we cannot afford the luxury of jumping a significant distance back to heal.

Any fight where we must stack (e.g. Ultraxion), or indeed any fight where positioning is important, significantly neuters this talent.

Please reconsider attaching the hunter 15% self heal to some other spell in our repertoire. A possible alternative to the current status is to simply provide a power in and of itself that gives the 15% heal, and then provide a glyph that can be used to tie it to Disengage.

I'll be the first to admit that in a PvP environment, Exhilaration is a talent that has huge value. Escaping from a melee attacker and self healing in one move? I can see why PvP hunters are going to love this.

But please consider providing an alternative for use in a raid environment where we really don't want to use Disengage.
90 Undead Warlock
11785
Mostly taken from http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4063167982 --

Question: What is "base mana regeneration"? How does mana regen work for casters (or mages)?
Answer: Healers get a significant amount of mana regeneration from Spirit, even during combat. Additionally, all mana users have a small amount of mana regeneration -- currently about 1% of maximum mana per second. With Invocation, that 1%/sec is removed. Things like Innervate will still allow you to regenerate mana, but you won’t passively regenerate any with Invocation.


Wait... so 1% mana per second means 5% Mp5. And if a Mage in standing in his Rune of Power, that's doubled, meaning he gains 10% of his mana every 5 seconds. That's almost three times as much mana regen as Glyphed Mage Armor. :O And that just seems fairly ridiculous, in a very good way.


It doesn't really make a difference for some caster dps (locks atleast) since we have mana (from life tap) as long as our healer has mana to heal us. I honestly would like a higher base mana regen for solo lock play.
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