February 15 Update to Mists Talent Calculator

90 Undead Warlock
15865
I havent gone through all 41 pages, so forgive me if this is a mimic post.

First of all, I like the changes, as they seem to balance out some of the more overpowered abilites (warlocks, not commenting on other classes, although some of their stuff looks really cool) such as Spell Drain, our bubble mechanic, etc. I am also quite happy to see Wild Imps as not cut :)

I do have some questions about the Dark Soul Passive effects. The new proposed Dark Soul looks really good, but if the passive effects are disabled while the ability is on cooldown, what is their point? Are these abilites not supposed to be used on cooldown? With the current Demon Soul design, you might save the demo or aff one when it could be of better use, like a Drain Soul or Soul Fire phase (not as much with the current Demo Demon Soul), but with Dark Soul offering very powerful passive stat buffs, it seems as though they would be used all of the time, except for perhaps the demonology one, which could just be timed to use with Guardians.

Perhaps Im misunderstanding the wording or the way these abilites are supposed to work. Any constructive clarification, blue or not, would be greatly appreciated :)

Keep up the good work. Very excited for MoP!
I just thought of something that has me concerned about the rogue poison talents, Leeching and Paralytic.

I like the new talents overall, and like the idea that you get three powerful, interesting choices, and have to decide between them. But Leeching and Paralytic poison are getting a double dose of that.

Not only do they have to compete with the other talents in their tier, but with the non talent poisons. In pvp they have to compete with cripping, wound and mind numbing. Wound poison is a must against healers in pvp. I don't see us giving up crippling anytime soon either. So to use these two talents, rogues have to sacrifice some of our existing poisons in pvp at least. In pve we don't get nearly as much use out of the non letha poisons so it's not a concern for me. But I'm not sure i can ever justify paralytic or leeching poison over wound/crippling for pvp, let alone also at the expense of their respective rival talents.
85 Blood Elf Priest
9495
02/15/2012 02:00 PMPosted by Shelbylol
I dont want to have to worry about other peoples health pools as a shadow priest I want to dps :(


That's a good point considering that we are there to dps. We should be worried about ourselves, and support roles (if the boss encounter calls for such) like dispelling or CC, but being support health to someone who doesn't know how to oh....move out of fire.... is hardly comforting. This should be a healer talent to allow a HEALER to swap health so the target can be spared death. They are, after all, already paying attention to the health of party/raid this would be more up their alley.
85 Goblin Death Knight
8475
Mind Freeze - 4 sec lock out - 15 sec cd
Pummel - 4 sec lock out - 15 sec cd
Kick - 5 sec lock out - 15 sec cd
Wind Shear - 3 sec lock out - 12 sec cd
Rebuke - 4 sec lock out - 15 sec cd
Counterspell - 6 sec lock out - 24 sec cd
Skull Bash - 4 sec lock out - 10 sec cd


Of course these are a work in progress, and I believe Skull Bash hasn't been updated with the longer cd times.

I'm curious if blizzard is going to normalize the kicks, aka all 'standard' interrupts (kick, pummel, mind freeze, rebuke, & skull bash) on the same interrupt duration and cool down time?

Wind shear has always been short cd with short lock out.

I do feel as though Counterspell should be set on a longer cooldown if this is the approach to the other interrupts. All other interrupts have received a 50% cooldown increase, so pushing Counterspell to 36 sec cooldown seems fair, especially given the blanket silence is being baselined for it.
90 Draenei Paladin
6365
02/16/2012 01:53 PMPosted by Eregos
I have some really heavy concerns about priests (I have posted them in the MOP forum). Whilst I understand they're still in development, do you have any idea when we'll be seeing an update to reflect the direction you want to go specifically with shadow priests?


I'd imagine in about a month we will see another update, showing the new developments for Priest, Hunter, and Shaman, while providing minor updates for the other classes.
85 Blood Elf Warlock
1995
Glad Warriors get Storm Bolt finally, loved it in WC3 :D
90 Blood Elf Mage
11070
some interesting stuff for mages.. like the idea of the arcane bomb, also arcane misslles now generate an arcane charge rather than dump them. like the idea of alter time.

but a couple of missing talents I don't see though; improved mana gem, nether vortex, arcane concentration, netherwind presence, arcane tactics. Also, kind of a big one, I don't see focus magic anywhere.

Also, dont see fire orb in arcane or fire. Arcane now has an arcane bomb and fire has living bomb but now frost has a frost bomb and a frost bomb.
Just my feed back
90 Draenei Paladin
6075
02/15/2012 01:14 PMPosted by Kaivax
and the Acts of Sacrifice Cleanse component (Paladin).


Well, that cleared up my concerns of Ret not being able to catch up to ranged targets in PvP. :D

The new paladin tree looks amazing, a huge upgrade from the last one in my opinion. I especially like the level 90 tier. (It's raining hammers!)
85 Human Paladin
6555
There are some incorrect mana costs displayed in the talent calculator for some Protection and Retribution Paladins spells right now. For example, Consecration actually costs 7% of base mana, not 22%.*

They currently are designed such that they are mana positive while doing their damage and going through their tanking rotations, and stay near full mana the whole time. Mana should not be a consideration to their rotation, rather, it will act as a limit on how much off-healing and other utility spells they can cast.

*At the moment; subject to change.


I'm fine with this so long as the rotations are mana positive to the extent Prot and Ret regain mana spent on utility in a reasonable amount of time. Regular utility such as HoJ, Rebuke, and hand spells should have little effect on the mana pool because these are already limited by cooldowns. The devs have to find that sweet spot which limits utility like Flash of Light, but doesn't eventually prohibit it in an extended fight.
Edited by Hofleurette on 2/16/2012 2:09 PM PST
90 Troll Druid
7905
Posted on the druid forums, leaving feedback here as well.

So the new talent trees came out and I really hope I am not the only one completely and utterly shocked. With the new class coming that will be rolling on the exact same loot I feel like they want all ferals to reroll monk or something along those lines. If they don't want us to reroll they just don't want us to be viable anywhere doing anything at end came content.

Currently the only thing that makes Feral DPS viable in current end came PVE content is our 4 piece and our utility. With MoP that is gone and so are we. On to the new talents.

-Wild Charge now has a 15 sec cooldown for all variations of the charge.

•Cat Form no longer causes your Ravage to be useable with no Energy cost. So basically here we are losing a decent amount of dps and 2 free combo points. I pretty much use this ability on cooldown any fight I am able to for the easy savage roar/2 free combo points. (Heroic Spine is a great example) What this is going to do is make it much harder for us to keep a 5 CP rip/SR/rake up at all times.

-Claw now causes 350% of normal damage, up from 155%

•Completely useless for any endgame content. More than likely to make low leveling easier but if they are justifying the shred nerf with this buff I am clueless to how.

-Symbiosis may not be cast on other Druids and the effect is lost if the linked targets are too far apart. 6 sec cast time.
•How far apart are we talking? That alone can be very detrimental to the abilities success, on top of that 6 SECOND CAST TIME?! WTF BLIZZ if this is not changed to an instant cast or the ability doesn't end up being totally OP the 6 second cast time is completely overkill.

-Shred damage has been reduced from 540% to 425%
•Awesome our main single target filler is being nerfed by a massive amount, at this point mangle spamming will probably be more effective.

-Ravage damage has been reduced from 950% to 750% damage.
•Nice the ability that will never be used due to the high energy cost and the fact that it is no longer proc'd from the new "Wild Charge" ability is being nerfed by a considerable amount. Guess it doesn't really matter since we will never use it.

-*NEW* Soul of the Forest Aessina's blessing grants a benefit which varies by your combat specialization.
•Balance When a Lunar Eclipse ends you gain 20 Solar Energy and when a Solar Eclipse ends you gain 20 Lunar Energy.
•Feral Your finishing moves grant 2 Energy per combo point.
•Guardian Mangle now generates an additional 2 Rage.
•Restoration You gain 50% haste for your next spell when you cast Swiftmend.

-Figured I would post all forms since it is a new ability. I mean an additional 10 energy AT A MAXIMUM really doesn't do much for us at all, that isnt even 1 shred. (if we will be using shred anymore) Even for the other specs it seems very lackluster especially balance. In balance you want to remain in eclipse as long as you can because your spells hit harder. This talent is simply getting us out of eclipse faster..... Enough said.

•Ursol's Vortex can now be cast at a specific location instead of being used on the Druid. 30 yd range.
-I mainly PVE but I know I should put it in here, great change to the talent, should be very good in PVP.

•Bash is now a talent and has been renamed Mighty Bash Invokes the spirit of Ursoc to stun the target for 5 sec. Useable in all shapeshift forms.
-Again another PVP mostly talent, useable in cat. Nice change.

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Score/25H/100/14/60/default/

I believe this link really says it all.(As far as PVE goes) Blizz is nerfing a spec that is only second to hunters. Mages, rogues, and warriors are clearly on top with other specs so they're not included. Please Blizzard I am begging you, DO NOT LET THIS GO LIVE. It is the downfall for ferals as we know it.
90 Draenei Shaman
9710
Shaman Question:

Are shock cooldowns still linked? We can't really tell from the calculator tooltips.

85 Tauren Death Knight
7370
I got a few questions for locks is metamorphosis going to be a constant thing? I seems to have no cd, or maybe it uses demonic fury?

Won't destro's destructive influence and grimoire of sacrifice counteract each-other making destro's rotation not flow smoothly compared to those who avoid it? This would hurt your any choice works method that your going for.

Also we ever going to see the glyph side of the talents any time soon?
Community Manager
Can you answer this for us: What is being done with spell crit for DPS specs?

I notice that Boomkins and SPriests no longer get the 100% crit damage boost. Ele Shaman get only 50% boost from Elemental Fury.

Is this being done to "tone down" spell damage, or are crits going to be 2x baseline for everybody?

Basically, I want to know if this means that Enhancement Shaman and Rogues are finally getting 2x spell crits.


Our baseline assertion is that all spells and abilities will crit for double damage. There are a few exceptions to this, such as Elemental shaman getting a 2.5x crit multiplier, but the default is 2x for everyone now.

Yes, this means that Enhancement shaman spells and rogue Poisons will crit for double damage.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
10545
02/16/2012 01:42 PMPosted by Kaivax
Can we get more info regarding Mana Regen for protection paladins? From what I read, it seems the only mana regen source comes from GbtL with a passive 5% mana regen every 2 secs -- and that's it.


There are some incorrect mana costs displayed in the talent calculator for some Protection and Retribution Paladins spells right now. For example, Consecration actually costs 7% of base mana, not 22%.*

They currently are designed such that they are mana positive while doing their damage and going through their tanking rotations, and stay near full mana the whole time. Mana should not be a consideration to their rotation, rather, it will act as a limit on how much off-healing and other utility spells they can cast.

*At the moment; subject to change.


Oh, thanks for the clarification!

BTW, Any word on the currently missing Righteous Defense? Are all tanks across the board losing a taunt?
85 Tauren Druid
7700
Claw now causes 350% of normal damage, up from 155%

•Completely useless for any endgame content. More than likely to make low leveling easier but if they are justifying the shred nerf with this buff I am clueless to how.


I doubt it addresses the Shred nerf as we are supposed to Mangle when in front of an enemy not Claw. I believe this is just to make going into cat less painful for non ferals.

-Symbiosis may not be cast on other Druids and the effect is lost if the linked targets are too far apart. 6 sec cast time.
•How far apart are we talking? That alone can be very detrimental to the abilities success, on top of that 6 SECOND CAST TIME?! WTF BLIZZ if this is not changed to an instant cast or the ability doesn't end up being totally OP the 6 second cast time is completely overkill.


The cast time is no unreasonable as we cannot actually cast it in combat. It is simply the application of the link the ability we gain from it will not have a 6 second cast time.

-Shred damage has been reduced from 540% to 425%
•Awesome our main single target filler is being nerfed by a massive amount, at this point mangle spamming will probably be more effective.


Everyone's damage numbers are getting looked at.



-*NEW* Soul of the Forest Aessina's blessing grants a benefit which varies by your combat specialization.
•Balance When a Lunar Eclipse ends you gain 20 Solar Energy and when a Solar Eclipse ends you gain 20 Lunar Energy.
•Feral Your finishing moves grant 2 Energy per combo point.
•Guardian Mangle now generates an additional 2 Rage.
•Restoration You gain 50% haste for your next spell when you cast Swiftmend.

-Figured I would post all forms since it is a new ability. I mean an additional 10 energy AT A MAXIMUM really doesn't do much for us at all, that isnt even 1 shred. (if we will be using shred anymore) Even for the other specs it seems very lackluster especially balance. In balance you want to remain in eclipse as long as you can because your spells hit harder. This talent is simply getting us out of eclipse faster..... Enough said.


Numbers can be looked at once we get our hands on it. At the moment I agree that 10 energy is kinda low, but we need to know the frequency of finishers. Balance's bonus is applied after eclipse ends so it actually gets you into your next eclipse faster rather than getting you out of it.
90 Human Mage
17300
For Rune of Power if the mage has two already out will we be able to cast another one or do we have to wait till the first one is gone
7 Tauren Shaman
0
with all daggers only being 1.8 speed in cata, can enhance get fixed so daggers are viable weps for them too, so they and rogues can actually share weapons
90 Night Elf Druid
15975
For the most part, these new Hunter talents are pure awesomesauce. However there is one particular talent that worries me: Exhilaration.

Giving us a self heal above and beyond Spirit bond: Good. Tying it to Disengage: Bad. There are just too many fights where we cannot afford the luxury of jumping a significant distance back to heal.

Any fight where we must stack (e.g. Ultraxion), or indeed any fight where positioning is important, significantly neuters this talent.

Please reconsider attaching the hunter 15% self heal to some other spell in our repertoire. A possible alternative to the current status is to simply provide a power in and of itself that gives the 15% heal, and then provide a glyph that can be used to tie it to Disengage.

I'll be the first to admit that in a PvP environment, Exhilaration is a talent that has huge value. Escaping from a melee attacker and self healing in one move? I can see why PvP hunters are going to love this.

But please consider providing an alternative for use in a raid environment where we really don't want to use Disengage.


They could tie the heal to Feign Death instead of Disengage. When you come back up from the fake death, you're healed 30% (because of longer cooldown).
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