February 15 Update to Mists Talent Calculator

90 Human Warlock
11175
Embers?

I'm sorry, I don't want to play an arcane or fire mage.

Edit for non-rage clarity:

I like some complexity and uniqueness in my class. I don't see why we're having life tap cut out, I don't see why we're having chaos bolt go away.

Mana was something I watched on Vezax. I am a warlock. I watch my health!! >:(
Edited by Dravinna on 2/22/2012 4:35 PM PST
100 Night Elf Druid
10455
I was looking over the new destruction warlock system and it sounds like a cool unique way to play. However, one problem I see is that I want to be able to use fire and brimstone to put up immolate on every target at the start of an aoe pull. From my understanding I'd have to be long into a fight to generate an ember in order to do this, probably longer than any aoe pull would last.

I think it could be allowed through a cooldown of some sort that says your next fire and brimstone has no cost. My first thought was a cooldown that just gives you an ember but that would allow for a bursty soulfire up front which is probably not what blizz wants. So, making the fire and brimstone not cost an ember could be an alternative.
100 Blood Elf Warlock
20440
I can't remember if someone already mentioned this question, but will Burning Embers also deal damage to your pet if you have the Soul Link talent?

If so, it seems like there's a supremely good synergy between Soul Leech and Soul Link mitigating the health losses for destro; almost too good (i.e. - mandatory).


Two things. First off, Soul Leech? That's so gone in Mists. Second, if I understand it right, the way the Mists version of Soul Link works is that it merges your health pool with your demon pet's. Damage gets divided, healing gets divided, it's effectively a single total. So even if it means the damage from Burning Embers gets shared, so does the healing from Ember Tap or your Restro Shaman buddy. It comes out the same in the end.
100 Tauren Druid
9055
[quote][quote]

tanking is not fun its a job!( its plain and simple either you keep your team alive or you dont.) there is no fun in being forced to run around manage all kinds of stupid cooldowns and worry about an emergency button or ability thats called stress! Why are you developers so daft when it comes to fun.
it was fun in pvp as blood spec you yanked that away and made it completely dull boring and un-fun.
In life you developers seem to be failing. If your job is to make the game not fun for tanks guess what your doing it damn well.
As a tank we dont want to manage resources we want to blast stuff to pieces and keep it off our group end of story. so stop being noobs and un nerf the tanks damage so we can go back to having fun in pvp!


The whole reason I am a tank is because I find it very enjoyable. To me, tanking is fun.

Dont try to push your hatred of tanking on all of us.
90 Worgen Warlock
11035
02/22/2012 04:49 PMPosted by Ilkoland
Two things. First off, Soul Leech? That's so gone in Mists.


It's right there in the first tier of talent choices. =P

It's a bit different, but maybe that was your point.
90 Orc Warrior
10550
your undervaluing he abilities your givenvigilance isnt just for tanks, if yoour a dps and on a burn phase, put it on one of your healers, cause if they live but you die, they can still help keep up the rest of the raid
mass reflection is good, because you can switch weapons IN COMBAT, meaning you put a shield on when the neemy is about to do a aoe volly ability, you use it, all the damage goes back ot the target, then you switch back to your origional weapon(s) for your dps
as a dps, if yuou see your tank is low, and your near full hp, try poping shield wall and intercepting the next attack on the tank, after that he takes educed damage for a period of time (or you could use this on a healer durring a burn phase)
you see talens and say, what can i do with that to benefit myself
i see talents and say, what can i do to make that benefit my group
try thinking of your group as your team, cause without them, you wouldnt be killing anything in any raid, one dps or tank cant do much in a raid, its the group effort that counts


AHSUAHSUAHSUHASHUASHAUSHAUSH

GOOOOOODDDD JOKE!!!!

I ask for CC... Its for me or group.. hmm i dont know... maybe my neighbor will use...

Did u play like a Healer? or Tank?
I have same HP of the healer if i get the damage from him i just mocking him. Is easier heal self to healer...
And the wonderfull joke of Intervane on tank... MASTER PIECE! Wonderfull Idea! If i get some boss hit, even with shield walll i can die. let me show u:

My reduction with shield wall is just a little bit high than tank with no buffs, healers shield or absorve from some spec (druid or DK), if i get a normal hit. YES! Im not a tank, i can recive critical damages!! OMG That was fun!! More work for healers! with shield and cds of prot from healers the tank can survive btw the dps follow ur lead and was unuseless and die!

Now i understand the term: roflmao
90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
@Astrylian:

The idea behind HotW is fine, but the execution is kinda.......not good.

Feral/Bear -> Caster DPS: Lack of spell hit cap means this is a waste of time. Plus no IS and no Mastery.

Feral/Bear -> Heals: Not nearly enough mana regen to support chain casting HT. No Mastery.

Moonkin/Caster -> Cat: Can't think of any situation where anyone would ever go melee dps over ranged. The 50% Agility bonus does make up for the missing weapon DPS but it doesn't make up for missing SR, Rip, Shred, or Mastery. Same problem as going to Moonkin.

Anything -> Bear: This should be pretty obvious. Missing crit immunity, anything resembling Armor, and any defensive abilities at all.

The cooldown / duration are also WAY off from your typical burn phase durations / periods.
100 Gnome Warlock
13070
Embers?

I'm sorry, I don't want to play an arcane or fire mage.

Edit for non-rage clarity:

I like some complexity and uniqueness in my class. I don't see why we're having life tap cut out, I don't see why we're having chaos bolt go away.

Mana was something I watched on Vezax. I am a warlock. I watch my health!! >:(


Quite a bit of an overreaction here. There's a lot of complexity to be had with this design. Certainly more than there is currently. Also, Life Tap isn't cut out at all and the status of Chaos Bolt isn't even known, much like other classes' abilities.

How about we tone down the "sky-is-falling" diatribe until we know more?
100 Gnome Warlock
13070
I was looking over the new destruction warlock system and it sounds like a cool unique way to play. However, one problem I see is that I want to be able to use fire and brimstone to put up immolate on every target at the start of an aoe pull. From my understanding I'd have to be long into a fight to generate an ember in order to do this, probably longer than any aoe pull would last.

I think it could be allowed through a cooldown of some sort that says your next fire and brimstone has no cost. My first thought was a cooldown that just gives you an ember but that would allow for a bursty soulfire up front which is probably not what blizz wants. So, making the fire and brimstone not cost an ember could be an alternative.


Fire & Brimstone doesn't have an indicated cost or cooldown yet. You may very well be able to do this on nearly every AoE pull. We don't know the details yet.



Two things. First off, Soul Leech? That's so gone in Mists.

Level 45 tier, left side. Look before you leap... to conclusions.

Second, if I understand it right, the way the Mists version of Soul Link works is that it merges your health pool with your demon pet's. Damage gets divided, healing gets divided, it's effectively a single total. So even if it means the damage from Burning Embers gets shared, so does the healing from Ember Tap or your Restro Shaman buddy. It comes out the same in the end.

I think the "comes out the same" bit is very debatable. For a healer, the smaller increments of damage done to both lock and demon are easier to heal (and cheaper) even if the healing gets split as well. I would equate it to the difference between healing a tank up from Baleroc or the Lich King - a large single attack - to having dots on you that deal the same amount of damage total. One you can pace yourself with healing, the other you can't.

It also gives warlocks an artificially longer time before reaching execute range since their health pool sizably larger. I wonder how many classes will be able to stand toe-to-toe with them in a long battle.
100 Blood Elf Warlock
20440
It's right there in the first tier of talent choices. =P

It's a bit different, but maybe that was your point.


Ah yes, of course. I understandably have Destro on the brain today. I suppose the new Soul Leech would offset the Embers damage a bit, if it's actually enough damage to matter. But what what's been teased I don't see there being an advantage to stacking your Embers unused to the point where the damage becomes an issue.
100 Troll Warlock
16530
Didnt see this asked

Question: what about the "big plans for soul shards" the devs mentioned at the MoP panel.
All I see are minor changes. I understand if it isnt finished yet, just wondering.
100 Blood Elf Warlock
15525
There is one significant hurdle for Blizzard to overcome with the Destruction overhaul, and that is the subversion (unintentional?) of Destruction's ability to dump Embers with consecutive Soul Fires.

The Soul Fire/Decimation relationship needs to be addressed, as conventional logic would suggest Soul Fire would not have the 25% clause in its tooltip without the Decimation ability. 30 seconds is a very long time to wait to cast Soul Fire at its regular speed.

Destructive Influence also subverts the incentives for Ember stacking. Its current implementation awards a significant cast time reduction only to the first Soul Fire cast in a series.
Edited by Keldion on 2/22/2012 8:28 PM PST
100 Undead Death Knight
7060
Talent tree's are so bad, grats on losing a subscriber.
90 Orc Warrior
10550
Warriors look this topic and coment plz. Leave your sugestions and ideas.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4079842373#1
100 Undead Warlock
12825
Soul Fire

Personally I'd like to see Soul Fire scrapped for Destruction since it's just another fireball. It's not very fun. I'd rather see the big Destruction ember consumer be Chaos Bolt. It has an excellent animation and is much more fitting in Destruction than a simple fireball. MoP Chaos
Bolt can use all the stats and perks (such as scaling with crit and always critting) as Soul Fire. I really like Chaos Bolt and its absorption piercing effect. It is flavorful and the scaling with crit and always critting effect is as well. It's chaotic.

On that note, Soul Fire and Pyroblast look and feel so similar that having Chaos Bolt fill that position would fix this. Conflagrate and Fire Blast/Inferno Blast have this issue as well. They even have the same icons...

Something that concerns me is when it was described that the Destro lock was casting back to back Soul Fires to consume embers, wouldn't the cast time doubling effect significantly hinder the lock from doing this in a non-execute phase? I would rather see Soul Fire/Chaos Bolt consume all current embers or see a new, long cooldown spell that does so.

Due to my lack of experience with Demonology I won't comment on Soul Fire and its uses within the spec.

Demonic Fury

From what I can see, you cast spells that generate Demonic Fury to consume for Metamorphosis. Will meta have a flat Demonic Fury cost? Or will it drain it from the lock over time while active? Do Demonic Fury generating spells continue to generate while in meta?

Thanks and I'm loving some of the feedback in this thread!
Elu
100 Orc Warlock
18690
Start of Fight: Full mana bar, Empty Ember bar

1. Immolate the target
2. Conflagrate to trigger emberstorm
3. Incinerate to generate embers
4. Continue until you are low on mana

• Middle of Fight: Empty mana bar, ~2 Embers

1. Soul Fire
2. Soul Fire
3. Mana bar is mostly full (Soul Fire costs embers, so your mana refills during the Soul Fires)


The "start of fight" section sounds fine, but the "middle of fight" is quite concerning. I'm guessing what a majority of people don't like about the ISF buff was not so much the buff management, but rather hard casting soul fires. Standing still to cast a roughly 2.5 sec spell (3 sec reduced by haste) is simply not fun. So having soul fire cast time bumped up to 4 sec and hard casting them during "mana regen phase" doesn't sound fun. Then the 2nd soul fire has its cast time doubled if the target was above 25% health, so 8 sec?? And I hope this isn't even possible, but if moving with Kiljaeden's Cunning, it doubles again, so 16 sec??? lol
Bottom line, hard casting soul fire >2 sec = do NOT want, ever.

How is this spec supposed to play out in PvP? I really don't want to keep playing affliction for PvP, its play style is so boring!

There seems to be some sort of gravity toward soul fire since Cata was first being brought up with the community back in Wrath. My thinking was that warlocks were requesting that soul fire be used in our dps, not because they wanted to hard cast it regularly, but rather that it'd be cool if there was some sort of proc for instant cast soul fires or quick/short casted soul fire executes like demonology's "decimation" talent. IMO, I'd rather soul fire become demonology exclusive and destro uses quick cast chaos bolts. (Immolate, Conflagrate, Chaos Bolt, Incinerate.)

In a nutshell, Destruction warlocks are not GCD locked. In fact, chain-casting spells as a Destruction warlock is less important than spending all of your resources.


02/21/2012 06:03 PMPosted by Kaivax
Our hope is that the Destruction Warlock will attract players who are interested in a playstyle that rewards spending resources at the right time, rather than constantly casting.


Currently, in Cata, destro locks have one of the most complicated rotations in the game. The play style is frantic, fluid (except hard cast ISF), and complex. There's good and bad in the rotation, but the people who are still playing destro locks are most likely still playing it for the rapid button pushing play style and/or the fire-demon flavor. We are "constantly casting" more than other specs. I don't think swapping from this kind of play style to a non-gcd capped rotation with a slow cast "regen" phase is the right direction to take this spec. Destro is about fast casted nukes and chaos, not slow casted lulls.

02/21/2012 06:03 PMPosted by Kaivax
Keep in mind this is all subject to change


Please, please change it to something else.

~ MastaKwaa, Destruction lock since '09
Edited by Mastakwaa on 2/22/2012 9:53 PM PST
5 Orc Warlock
0
Soul Fire doesn't have its cast time increased as destro - that's a demonology-only specific passive.
100 Gnome Warlock
13070
02/22/2012 09:58 PMPosted by Xelnath
Soul Fire doesn't have its cast time increased as destro - that's a demonology-only specific passive.


We don't know that for sure yet, but it's certainly a plausible explanation. There are many other cases where dynamic tooltip changes don't translate to being displayed in the MoP talent calculators, so this could easily be one of them.
5 Orc Warlock
0
If you look at all of the spells, you can tell they used a Demonology Warlock to generate the tooltips. "Grants 25 Demonic Fury" on level 1 shadow bolt... that's useless to destro and aff.

I'm sure Decimation halves the cast time for Demo, then brings it back to 4.0 sec if you hit a high HP target.
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