February 15 Update to Mists Talent Calculator

Warlock Class and Talent System = Winning.

Exactly on track. Fun and awesome ideas. Keep on that mental tangent.

I don't know if the Dev Team can inject that much awesome into the other classes.
But I don't care.

Warlock.

:D

Edit for: Warriors War Banner should be a GRIM WARD that is made out of a fallen enemy.
Seriously Blizzard - this was too obvious! Take the weekend off and go snorkeling. Refocus.
Edited by Omgroflatub on 2/27/2012 6:34 AM PST
100 Night Elf Rogue
16700
there is little help in the Rogue tree it's just mainly bad, Shadow step and Preperation is both used alot chosing one will be a pain, such as one picked shadow step, but needs to get vanish up again to live, but nope, you die, if pick preperation you can't get to your target and shadow step is really useful agenst ranged targets but you pick preperation so you can't get the attack and poisons in quickly, yes you can get sprint in but what if you been slowed, yeah that part is bad. I rather stick with the current Tree, edit that and NOT start from scratch
90 Night Elf Hunter
7950
02/27/2012 03:13 PMPosted by Accelgor
there is little help in the Rogue tree it's just mainly bad, Shadow step and Preperation is both used alot chosing one will be a pain, such as one picked shadow step, but needs to get vanish up again to live, but nope, you die, if pick preperation you can't get to your target and shadow step is really useful agenst ranged targets but you pick preperation so you can't get the attack and poisons in quickly, yes you can get sprint in but what if you been slowed, yeah that part is bad. I rather stick with the current Tree, edit that and NOT start from scratch


Looks to me then like blizzard accomplished their goal here. You have a really tough decision, as you just showed in your explanation. That is exactly what blizzard is trying to do.
85 Worgen Death Knight
7270

I think that the Dk talent tree is pretty balanced but:

The biggest problems I have, are the level 60 talents. The first time around I didn't worry too much about any weird pieces reguarding specs and talents, assuming that most of it wasn't finished anyway. However seeing vampiric blood still be a talent seriously worries me. In every situation I can think of, it's better to have your 1 min cd vampiric blood to stay alive.

For survival:

•One of the key points of blood dk tanking is cooldown management. We don't use cooldowns because we have them, we use them because we need them. Ensuring we have the highest amount of cd uptime possible is how we stay alive in the current state of the game.

•Vampiric blood (obviously) synergizes well with dk's existing mechanics. When you can pair your vampiric blood up with a rune tap, death strike, death coil heal, gift of the narru, ect. they are very powerfull.

•Any good blood dk knows, the moument when vampiric blood falls off, and bone shield is still on cd, you're in for a world of pain. Looking at heroic morchock and zon'ozz for instance, the moument I run out of cds, I'm ready to call for a hand of sac or a pain suppression. This is because I know if I don't get a cd to tide me over to the next bone shield (or manage to force will of the necropolis to proc), I'll be dead.

•Compared to maximizing cooldown up time, death pact and siphon don't even come close. For one you actually need something to pact with, in bloods case this is only risen ghoul or army ghoul. Neither are reliable since they have cooldowns longer than death pacts cooldown.

•In the case of death siphon, you're giving up a death rune to use it. Which means you're giving up 1 death strike to use potentialy 2 death siphons. Even if we imagine they scale the healing up some more, I dobut it can come close to death strike + blood shields potential, after all death strike scales with the damage you take. For death siphon to be comparable to a death strike would create a balance problem of its own. Also theres the fact that blood already has a single rune instant heal, that doesn't interfere with death strike. Rune Tap already does the job that death siphon could.

For damage:

•Someone who is looking to maximize damage, is concerned with the gcds and rescources they use. Both death pact and death siphon cost an important resource and a gcd. Vampiric blood costs neither and actually functions as a cooldown rather than a clutch heal (which has to be made use of after damage is taken).

•In the case of death pact, a frost dk runs into the same problem as blood. "What am I going to pact with?" There is no dobut that that a frost dks ghoul is going to be used on cooldown, and army before the pull. They'll only have a ghoul to possibly sac for 30%~ of a given encounter. Even with this, they have to burn up 40 runic power and a global on a heal. A heal that has to be used after the dangerous damage is dealt. An unholy dk has a bit of a better case here, in that his ghoul will always be active, but he still has to give up 40 runic and a global on a clutch heal.

•For death siphon, it intially seems a bit stronger since it actually deals damage. That fact is pretty much erased once you remember that death siphon costs a death rune. Theres no way a frost dk is going to want to give up his death rune for a shadow damage hit and heal. Even from the ranged perspective they've got howling blast spam. Death siphon isn't even on frost's radar. The unholy dk again has it slightly better here, since the damage done is shadow and should potentially do more than an icy touch (icy touch would also throw frost fever up for disease damage however). Even then, unholy has runic power banking and death coil spam to use for ranged damage. Also the damage bonus this talent could have occurs when the enemy "isn't" in melee range. Hopefully more flying bosses that only the ranged dps can attack aren't designed.

•Compared to the ability to instant cast a vampiric blood off the gcd with no cost, death pact and siphon are pretty weak. Also since vb has a 15% health increase, you can actually use it to live through damage bursts, and you get a bonus to healing to aid in topping yourself off afterwards. (With the glyph it is 40% healing, making it of greater value on majority of fights.)


Basicly vampiric blood is too strong to be a mop talent. It'll be mandatory for tanking (no tank is giving up their active cd), and the most effective to use while damage dealing. It needs to be a blood spec ability just like bone shield.

What really needs to be in that talent slot, is some kind of heal over time effect and vampiric blood placed back as a blood specific ability. That way it'd actually be balanced compared to the other abilties in its tier and we would keep our current survivability the way it is. This would also balance out the loss of one DS per min, due to the loss of blood tap.
82 Human Death Knight
1610
What happened to corpse explosion? I could have sworn i saw it back in these new talent trees.
100 Orc Warlock
18690
I'm concerned that warlocks cc talents are are all in the same talent row (level 30 talents).
Instant Howl of Terror - improved Death Coil - nerfed Shadowfury

Currently as a destro lock, we have casted Howl of Terror, regular Death Coil, and un-nerfed Shadowfury... but in Mists we are supposed to choose one of those three? I could understand if we got the regular versions baseline and then could pick 1 of the 3 to improve, like how DK's strangulate can be improved to Asphyxiate or how Paladin's Hammer of Justice can be improved to the Fist of Justice, but it doesn't appear to be that way. The way I understood the talent row was so that we could play the spec we enjoyed but got to choose the flavor of cc we used, i.e. an affliction lock who has Shadowfury or a destro lock who has instant Howl, etc. Instead it seems as if we're being castrated of our crowd control abilities. What gives?

Sure, the idea may be to reduce the amount of crowd control in pvp. But then I'd bring up mages, who currently have the most cc in the game. And instead of putting their major cc abilities all on the same talent row, they're getting Deep Freeze baseline for all specs while retaining their spec specific cc abilities. And their cc talent row (level 45 talents) has Ring of Frost and 2 new made up cc's. Shouldn't they have to choose between Ring of Frost, Frost Nova, and Cone of Cold. And then choose between Slow, Dragon's Breath, and Deep Freeze?

I don't mind if the goal is to reduce cc across the board, but if it's not across all classes, then give warlocks back their cc abilities. Without our normal cc, we're going to be trained even more than we are now in pvp, which means being even more dependent upon our healers... that's not a good thing for warlocks or healers.

--[[
I imagine some people will say its because warlocks are getting heals/defensive cd's. That's misinformation from the last iteration of the talents. Our current survivability is dependent upon Soul Link, which we can't have if we take one of the other new defensive abilities (both of which also damage either the warlock or the pet, we're still losing hp's either way). We have 1 row that's heals over time and 1 row that damages us, so those 2 negate each other. So essentially, no new survivability! Meanwhile, all mages can get 2 bubble shields (only frost could previously) and now cold snap is available to all specs, had its cooldown dropped from 8 min to 3 min AND it also now instantly heals the mage for 20% of their health.
]]--

Basically every class has a tier of 3 CCs to choose from. Not sure why you feel warlocks should get special treatment and have theirs spread out over multiple tiers.


You either didn't fully read my post, or you simply didn't understand my point. I'm not asking for warlocks to get special treatment, I'm asking for them to get the same treatment.

Let me explain this relative to your spec, which seems to Beast Mastery:
As Beast Mastery, in Cata, in addition to your traps, you currently have Concussive Shot, Scatter Shot, and Intimidation. If you got the same treatment as destruction warlocks, you'd have to choose 1 of those 3. You don't get a choice of flavor, but rather you lose 2 cc abilities you currently have in order to keep 1. That's how the current MoP talent iteration is for destro locks.

What I'm asking for is similar to what the current MoP talent iteration for hunters is, and that is that you get to keep concussive shot and scatter shot, and then you get to choose an extra flavor cc (silencing, wyvern, or intimidation). Not asking for special treatment, just fair treatment. So for a destro lock, that would mean we get to keep casted howl of terror and death coil, and then we'd get to choose an extra flavor cc (instant howl, improved death/mortal coil, or shadowfury)

Note: afflic/destro locks also appear to be straight up losing our shadowflame snare :(
Edited by Mastakwaa on 2/27/2012 10:39 PM PST
As a rogue i am just worried about our damage sinc non of the talents show any abilities to increase damage, i am guessing its been buffed overall. and also worried about a rogues positioning disadvantage in both pve and pvp as a subrogue. especially in pve since there are atleast 10 bosses we cant stand behind in raids and therefore are unable to dish out the needed dps for the raid.

Burst of speed awesome idea by the way keeps us in melle range than you blizzard
90 Night Elf Hunter
7950


Basically every class has a tier of 3 CCs to choose from. Not sure why you feel warlocks should get special treatment and have theirs spread out over multiple tiers.


You either didn't fully read my post, or you simply didn't understand my point. I'm not asking for warlocks to get special treatment, I'm asking for them to get the same treatment.

Let me explain this relative to your spec, which seems to Beast Mastery:
As Beast Mastery, in Cata, in addition to your traps, you currently have Concussive Shot, Scatter Shot, and Intimidation. If you got the same treatment as destruction warlocks, you'd have to choose 1 of those 3. You don't get a choice of flavor, but rather you lose 2 cc abilities you currently have in order to keep 1. That's how the current MoP talent iteration is for destro locks.

What I'm asking for is similar to what the current MoP talent iteration for hunters is, and that is that you get to keep concussive shot and scatter shot, and then you get to choose an extra flavor cc (silencing, wyvern, or intimidation). Not asking for special treatment, just fair treatment. So for a destro lock, that would mean we get to keep casted howl of terror and death coil, and then we'd get to choose an extra flavor cc (instant howl, improved death/mortal coil, or shadowfury)

Note: afflic/destro locks also appear to be straight up losing our shadowflame snare :(


Concussive shot is a slow, not a cc, and we are losing our other slow, wing clip. Still though, I don't know how you would compare a slow to a fear. Scatter shot isn't really a cc on its own either as we have to use it to set up our only real cc, freezing trap. Intimidation is a joke because of all the pet pathing issues and is only a 3 sec stun on 42 sec cd anyway. We are also losing raptor strike. Then on top of that, they are getting rid of pet talents for hunters. Maybe they'll change that but that means no roar of sacrifice for a defensive cd anymore either. Definitely don't know how you think you are getting any worse treatment than the hunters. Hunters and shaman have been far and away the most neglected classes since 4.0 and will continue to be in 5.0.

Edit: by the developers own admission they have done the least work with those two classes. And I would guess warlock has gotten more time than any other class except possibly mages since they always get the VIP treatment from the lead dev.
Edited by Tularian on 2/28/2012 1:42 AM PST
100 Pandaren Shaman
15565
I looked through the talents today and noticed Holy palladins and Resto druids are gaining a 400% bonus to there mana pool. While both Disc and Holy priests are only recieving a 5% to thier intellect, and Resto shamans are not reciving any major int increase from passive abilities. From thinking the only two things that i have thought as the reason for this is to differeniate healers into two classes. First a high mana bar healing class and then a mana recovering healing class. Whatever the reason may be it seems one sided at the moment to me.
90 Dwarf Shaman
3290


You either didn't fully read my post, or you simply didn't understand my point. I'm not asking for warlocks to get special treatment, I'm asking for them to get the same treatment.

Let me explain this relative to your spec, which seems to Beast Mastery:
As Beast Mastery, in Cata, in addition to your traps, you currently have Concussive Shot, Scatter Shot, and Intimidation. If you got the same treatment as destruction warlocks, you'd have to choose 1 of those 3. You don't get a choice of flavor, but rather you lose 2 cc abilities you currently have in order to keep 1. That's how the current MoP talent iteration is for destro locks.
What I'm asking for is similar to what the current MoP talent iteration for hunters is, and that is that you get to keep concussive shot and scatter shot, and then you get to choose an extra flavor cc (silencing, wyvern, or intimidation). Not asking for special treatment, just fair treatment. So for a destro lock, that would mean we get to keep casted howl of terror and death coil, and then we'd get to choose an extra flavor cc (instant howl, improved death/mortal coil, or shadowfury)

Note: afflic/destro locks also appear to be straight up losing our shadowflame snare :(


Concussive shot is a slow, not a cc, and we are losing our other slow, wing clip. Still though, I don't know how you would compare a slow to a fear. Scatter shot isn't really a cc on its own either as we have to use it to set up our only real cc, freezing trap. Intimidation is a joke because of all the pet pathing issues and is only a 3 sec stun on 42 sec cd anyway. We are also losing raptor strike. Then on top of that, they are getting rid of pet talents for hunters. Maybe they'll change that but that means no roar of sacrifice for a defensive cd anymore either. Definitely don't know how you think you are getting any worse treatment than the hunters. Hunters and shaman have been far and away the most neglected classes since 4.0 and will continue to be in 5.0.

Edit: by the developers own admission they have done the least work with those two classes. And I would guess warlock has gotten more time than any other class except possibly mages since they always get the VIP treatment from the lead dev.


any ability that reduces the other persons abilties to do things is cc. and as an enh shaman i can tell you that both scatter and concussive are most definetly cc.
85 Tauren Warrior
5925
The abilities seem fun, but I wonder if this "talent" system will have enough depth to keep people interested. There is no ability to customize the strength or behavior of our existing abilities. Glyphs already do this to some degree, but in order to fill the void left by the complete removal of what we know now as the "talent system" they will need a lot of work.

This game doesn't need to be any more convenient. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't necessarily need to be any harder, either. It just needs more depth. A LOT more. It has become very one-dimensional, and I believe that is why people can't stay interested in WoW these days. Time will tell if Blizzard is making the right decision.

IMO.
83 Tauren Druid
1670
Hmm... as I recently returned to playing this particular toon after taking a break to level a couple alts I'm finding the proposed talent tree rather sad for ferals... the first tier alone makes me want to shelve this toon again to be honest. Hmmm... either give up the 30% movement speed in cat form I have liked since I started playing or give up the effective charge attack that has made the class all that much more fun to play of late. Gee... what a non choice of suckage either way. I dunno... makes me wonder if any of the developers actually play a feral druid.

Actually, I do care about other classes being kick !@# and enjoyable to play.
While I am über biased about Locks being cool as to play, I think Blizz could add some more jazz to the rest of the team.

Bear with me, I realize these suggestions would require a massive reworking, but look at Destro/Demo.

Rogues should have an actual finishing move a la MK. When the enemy reaches 5% health your new ability 'Deaths Door' becomes active, click, and if they are within 10yds you shadowstep behind them and double strike. That's Rogueish behavior. Then pick 10% of the gold/dust/cloth you're carrying. Serves you right for dying.

Warrior, ability like strangulate, except you pick up your enemy by the throat - silencing them for 2 sec and stave their head in with the pommel of your axe/hammer/sword etc.
Or 'Ragdoll' an ability that activates when you have 60% more health than your target, allowing you to throw them 25yds away, damage them, disarm them and disorient for 2secs.

Paladins/priests/Resto : holy spell school always damages the enemy or heals a mate. If you cast PW:S on an enemy it takes additional damage (1shield active at a time). Smite your friends. I've always thought Holy should have that mechanic. Now healers can level just fine/ support deeps if they're gun healz.

These are not so over the top if you consider Conflag/Backdraft, Titans Grip, Exploding Fungus or Cheat Death. I think the dev team have more creative room for movement than they realize. I hope they start creating lateral more often than linear.
85 Blood Elf Death Knight
1545
wen could it come out?
85 Draenei Paladin
3560
I think the warriors disrupting shout talent has to have a bigger range to be viable, especially in arenas. With only a ten yard range the warrior would have to be right up next to the caster to disrupt and at that point the warrior could probably pummel anyways. And disrupting shout will never hit two casters with only a ten yard range, which is why it is only ten. But i just feel like there is no point to it unless it is at least a 20 yard range.
85 Worgen Rogue
2655


I don't see tree form listed under the spells or spec :(

or is it tied in with:

Incarnation?


If so that kinda make's that talent mandatory for raiding resto druids (among other resto druids) as this is a big cooldown for us.

Yes it is tie with incarnation
85 Human Rogue
11815
all 3 level 90 paladin abilities: there's a light and it's all bright and stuff and if you're a bad guy it hurts you but if you're a good guy it gives you a back massage.
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