Topic
Updated Warrior Talents and Abilities
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Edited by Bulliwyf on 2/15/12 3:46 PM (PST)
Edit: Please request as a sticky and post all updated warrior talent feed back in one thread. Please keep everything constructive so that our favorite class isn't a screwed up joke when MOP is released.
Diluting the post with random posts and attacks or having 90 threads spread out across the forums about the same topic is counter productive. :) Didn't see any other warrior specific posts when I started this, I hope that Blizz will either sticky a post for each class for people to comment on, or create a thread for each class. My feedback is mostly from a prot point of view, and we need to keep in mind that we can change these talents from fight to fight (assuming that this is still true!) and we are not locked into the talents until our next trip to a major city. Talents Tier 1 - Movement Tier No real complaints here. All are good, logical choices. If Im tanking trash/adds/5 mans, I could take any of the options and it would work great. I would like to see a 5 second stun on warbringer, giving time for 2 attacks instead of only 1. Tier 2 - Self Healing Same problems that I had last time: - Enraged Regen should not be a talent, it should be a baseline ability. If you want, make a talent to improve it, or a glyph. Taking a self heal/tanking CD and turning it into an option is not a good idea. Go back to the drawing board please. - Second Wind appears to be what it has always been, a useful PVP talent, only moderately useful in PVE. Alot depends on how often it procs, and what kind of ICD it has. - Impending Victory looks like it could become a mandatory talent for tanks, hitting it every 30 seconds to help with the healing, especially as we are starting out in the expansion. I'm glad that it has been buffed from the live version, which was honestly pathetic (execute range for only 5% if not glyphed, and had to be proc'ed). I think that this is good as is, and it doesnt need to be messed with. We need a third option (to replace enraged regen) that will make it a compelling choice to choose between imp victory and the third option. Please, please, PLEASE do not take a current CD away from us. Tier 3 - Control Glad to see some compelling and interesting options here. A root, a snare, and an aoe silence. Loving it. Just a few suggestions: - Staggering Shout: increase the root, or offer a glyph to increase the duration of the root. I'm making the assumption that thunderclap will still count as a snare effect? If it doesn't then this talent becomes effectively useless and needs to be retooled. - Piercing Howl - Love it except that duration should be 10 seconds. - Disrupting Shout - Love it except the range - would like to see 15 be the minimum. Offer a glyph to increase duration to 6 seconds? Tier 4 - Iconic I think that these abilities were once the lvl 90 abilities? LOVE the fact that they are now lvl 60. Cant think of anything wrong except as prot, bladestorm is still useless. - Bladestorm - useless to prot because I can still be disarmed, only 75% of weapon damage (1h weapon) and all I can do is shout? Something needs to be added to it to make it enticing to prot warriors. Applies a special debuff, we can thunderclap, add in retaliation effect (counterattacks while spinning), increase our parry rating while blade storming. As it is right now, its just a dps move, and is of no use to us. - Avatar and Shockwave - love it. An aoe move and a single target option. Will we still be able to increase the damage of shockwave somehow? Tier 5 - Defensive moves Wow! I have 2 options that make me excited, and 1 that is situational. - Mass Spell Reflect - tytytytytytyty! for bringing this spell back. My only question/request is if I cant spell reflect the ability (a boss ability) can we have a magic reduction tied to it? Only apply it to mass spell reflect, not the single target, and can not be stacked with the shield barrier effect. - Safeguard - will be used in PVP, and how it is/was used in the live version: I'm OT'ing, I intervene the other tank to take a hit. Situational, but decent. Not a compelling choice. - Vigilance - WHOA! I love this, and this is what it should have been from the start. Its like hand of sacrifice, and can increase damage done by enraging us! The only issue is that if mass spell reflect becomes immune/impotent to boss abilities, then this becomes the only option. Please keep this in mind. Tier 6 - Buffed Abilities - Deadly calm still seems lack luster. Not really excited about this. - Bloodbath - This will be awesome for aoe tanking/kiting. Charge in, thunderclap will apply deep wounds (via blood and thunder) and then this will be an additional source of threat. Change or make a glyph to increase the duration? 12 seconds with a 1 minute CD seems really short. Increase the duration or lower the CD to 30 seconds. - Stormbolt - loving this, and even took into account bosses being immune to stuns. I CANT WAIT to see this animation (please dont skimp!). Abilties: Once again, looking at this from a prot point of view. Remember, from the blue post announcing the update: If you don't see a favorite spell in the talent list, there is a good chance it is something you get automatically for choosing a particular spec. For example, all Fury warriors learn Raging Blow without having to choose it as a talent.... If you don't see a favorite spell or mechanic as a class ability, spec ability or talent, then there is a good chance it is becoming a glyph. Examples include Atonement (priest), Gag Order (Warrior), Rude Interruption (Warrior), and the Acts of Sacrifice Cleanse component (Paladin). Still not crazy about the cost of Shield Block, especially seeing as I seem to recall that we will be receiving less rage from being hit, and generating more by ourselves. Good to see that Revenge costs no rage, and still cleaves (will it be a smart cleave and not break CC still?) Cost of devastate? 15 rage like sunder? Or free? Shield slam generate rage. Hope sword and board procs alot.... What happened to thunder clap or blood and thunder causing an aoe hamstring? That seemed cool. Cost on spell reflect? Will it still generate rage on successful reflect? Battle shout increases Ap, not agi/str? I would prefer agi/str so that we can get more parry or offer dodge to druids/monks. Shield Barrier looks sexy Hope Rally Cry and last stand are not on a shared CD still. I hate having to choose between saving myself, or my party. War Banner - Couple issues/questions about war banner. - What is the CD on it? - What is the range? - Can we drop a skull, and then a demo as soon as skull is on the ground? Or will we be able to drop one as soon as the other one's efffect expires? - Instead of making it one ability, make it 3 different abilities, all on separate CD's. I would hate to see the raid making us use or not use certain banners when the warrior needs it in order to stack it with other CD's (we can use mocking banner because demo banner will be needed in X amount of seconds, or we cant use demo banner because we need to make sure skull banner is available for lust...) - Give us back Challenging Shout, and change mocking banner to something else. Increase healing taken, everyone causes a bleed, everyone causes a cleave... mocking banner is lack luster - Demomoralizing banner - like it, would rather see it last longer than 15 seconds (20), or increase the mount of damage reduction to 15% - Skull Banner - please give it a better name!! Like what it does. |
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Edited by Bulliwyf on 2/15/12 3:42 PM (PST)
Please remember:
From the blue post announcing the update: If you don't see a favorite spell in the talent list, there is a good chance it is something you get automatically for choosing a particular spec. For example, all Fury warriors learn Raging Blow without having to choose it as a talent.... If you don't see a favorite spell or mechanic as a class ability, spec ability or talent, then there is a good chance it is becoming a glyph. Examples include Atonement (priest), Gag Order (Warrior), Rude Interruption (Warrior), and the Acts of Sacrifice Cleanse component (Paladin). Arms Thoughts and Opinions I only play arms as an offspec/pvp spec, and I in no way claim to be an expert or master. I am only covering the talents and spec specific abilities. Talents Tier 1 - Movement Tier No real complaints here. All are good, logical choices. I would like to see a 5 second stun on warbringer, giving time for 2 attacks instead of only 1. All solid choices Tier 2 - Self Healing Same problems that I had last time: - Enraged Regen should not be a talent, it should be a baseline ability. If you want, make a talent to improve it, or a glyph. Taking a self heal/tanking CD and turning it into an option is not a good idea. Go back to the drawing board please. - Second Wind appears to be what it has always been, a useful PVP talent, only moderately useful in PVE. Alot depends on how often it procs, and what kind of ICD it has. - Impending Victory looks like it could become a mandatory talent for warriors for raid-wide damage encounters, hitting it every 30 seconds to help with the healing, especially as we are starting out in the expansion. I'm glad that it has been buffed from the live version, which was honestly pathetic (execute range for only 5% if not glyphed, and had to be proc'ed). I think that this is good as is, and it doesnt need to be messed with. We need a third option (to replace enraged regen) that will make it a compelling choice to choose between imp victory and the third option. Please, please, PLEASE do not take a current CD away from us. Tier 3 - Control Glad to see some compelling and interesting options here. A root, a snare, and an aoe silence. Loving it. Just a few suggestions: - Staggering Shout: increase the root, or offer a glyph to increase the duration of the root. I'm making the assumption that thunderclap will still count as a snare effect? If it doesn't then this talent becomes effectively useless and needs to be retooled. - Piercing Howl - Love it except that duration should be 10 seconds. - Disrupting Shout - Love it except the range - would like to see 15 be the minimum. Offer a glyph to increase duration to 6 seconds? What happened to a AOE hamstring? I liked that ability - spreading a hamstring via thunderclap or automatically applying via single target weapon strikes. Tier 4 - Iconic I think that these abilities were once the lvl 90 abilities? LOVE the fact that they are now lvl 60. Cant think of anything wrong from an arms opinion. - Bladestorm - I kind of wish it did a little more than 75% weapon damage. Will there be a glyph to somehow improve it? - Avatar and Shockwave - love it. An aoe move and a single target option. Will there be a way to buff shockwave? Tier 5 - Defensive moves Wow! I have 2 options that make me excited, and 1 that is situational. - Mass Spell Reflect - As prot this excites me, as arms, I'm wondering how this will be useful to me without me being forced to maintain a macro for swapping weapons. - Safeguard - will be used in PVP, and how it is/was used in the live version. Situational, but decent. Not a compelling choice. From an arms perspective, this is another PVP/lackluster talent. - Vigilance - WHOA! I love this, and this is what it should have been from the start. Its like hand of sacrifice, and can increase damage done by enraging us! I see this as being the only option for a DPS'er. Boss is about to do a major strike, I cast vigilance and take 30% off the top. Another warrior casts vigilance and takes the top off the next strike. I like vigilance, but from a DPS standpoint, there is no compelling option. Tier 6 - Buffed Abilities - Deadly calm still seems lack luster. Not really excited about this. Useful in aoe phases of fights, or for some quick burst, but just not awesome. - Bloodbath - This will be awesome for aoe phases, assuming that they are not to long. Go Berzerker stance for the extra aoe damage, charge in/heroic leap, thunderclap will apply deep wounds (via blood and thunder), cleave and whirlwind, sweeping strikes and then this will be an additional source of damage. I see arms getting a nerf on the AOE front if we can do all this on a 1-2 minute CD... :( Change or make a glyph to increase the duration? 12 seconds with a 1 minute CD seems really short. Increase the duration or lower the CD to 30 seconds. - Stormbolt - loving this, and even took into account bosses being immune to stuns. I CANT WAIT to see this animation (please dont skimp!). Spec Abilities: for the more generic class wide abilities, Im pretty sure I hit all the major ones in the prot section. For the sake of brevity, hitting the spec specific ones. - Mortal Strike will generate rage. The MS effect is only 10%. I thought the devs already figured out that 10% was not enough, that a healer will always be able to push through 10%. Increase it back to 25-30%. - Whirlwind is listed as spec specific, but is listed for both arms and fury. Assuming its a typo and belongs in the class list. -Overpower is free? Or doesnt have a rage cost listed. - I notice rend is gone :( I liked that we could have deep wounds and rend up at the same time, spreading rend, although I suppose it was redundant. RIP Rend - Strikes of opportunity (mastery) needs a retooling of some sort. Its bland, invisible, and doesnt seem to be interesting. Also, its nerfed by 50% from live. Not cool, and makes mastery one of the least interesting choices for stats for arms, right next to haste. - Colossus Smash - assuming that physical vulnerability is the same thing as sunder/devastate and is basically a way for us to keep sunder up on the target if there is no prot warrior spamming devastate (basically what we glyph for now?) Also thought that only arms was getting it, fury has it as well? - Sudden death - hopefully procs often enough to help keep CS up for more than 70% of the time. Lost the rage protection from execute (let us keep 10 rage when executing). Hope this ability does more than what it currently does. Not really exciting as it is. Please see comments/concerns concerning War Banner at the bottom of the Prot Section. |
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Edited by Bulliwyf on 2/15/12 3:42 PM (PST)
Please remember:
From the blue post announcing the update: If you don't see a favorite spell in the talent list, there is a good chance it is something you get automatically for choosing a particular spec. For example, all Fury warriors learn Raging Blow without having to choose it as a talent.... If you don't see a favorite spell or mechanic as a class ability, spec ability or talent, then there is a good chance it is becoming a glyph. Examples include Atonement (priest), Gag Order (Warrior), Rude Interruption (Warrior), and the Acts of Sacrifice Cleanse component (Paladin). Fury thoughts and opinions. In no way do I claim to be an expert, nor do I even play fury often: only when my guild made me. Just listing comments and concerns from a casual point of view. Talents - please see the arms section. For the most part, the comments are the same for fury: Tier 2 sucks, Tier 4 is fun, Tier 5 is questionable for DPS, Tier 6 is ok, not great. Spec Abilities: for the more generic class wide abilities, Im pretty sure I hit all the major ones in the prot section. For the sake of brevity, hitting the spec specific ones. - Bloodthirst will generate rage, 1% healing is pretty minuscule. 1.5% baseline on live (.5 per charge, 3 charges), before several talents increase the amount healed. I'm hoping a glyph will be available to increase the amount of healing. Whats good is it is no longer 3 charges consumed by weapon strikes, but all upfront. - Wild Strike - new, OH ability. Looks interesting, worried about the MS effect being to low. See Mortal Strike in arms sections. - Kind of worried that this ability wont be usable often while in lower gear levels. Can only be enraged for 6 seconds, after a crit. Deathwish is no longer listed, so we only have zerker rage to force an enrage now. - Deathwish is gone :( - TG/SMF is available at much lower levels now, this is really good. - I think Bloodsurge is good, maybe offer it sooner than lvl 50? - Meat Cleaver is a good response for fury not having all the aoe options that arms has. - Colossus Smash - thought this was an arms only attack now. - Main worry about fury is that it is, and always has been, difficult to hit and expertise cap. I dont see anything that offers passive hit anymore, as well as the low crit levels warriors will have when leveling or gearing up, not being able to proc or force an enrage for raging blows. I also can't prove or show it, but it feels like arms is more active and fast paced than fury (always kind of been like that), with fury missing something. |
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good read. I want to make some comments but I will wait until I have a bit more time to think about it :D Overall I agree with 99% of what you are saying about the prot (Haven't read the others)
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Reposting from a thread I created, didn't see this one when I started. Should keep all our stuff together and what not.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I noticed this before, when they first introduced the new talents, and rejoiced at first. Then it occurred to me: Congratulations my fellow warriors, we are death knights. I am of course referring to the fact that most primary abilities of each spec GENERATE rage rather than consuming it. Much like DKs generate runic power. Infact, these abilities cost NO resources whatsoever, they just incur a cooldown, which leaves a damn near Runes resource taste in my mouth. The reason I am against this, is it feels like change for the sake of change. Will it make our rotations slightly more predictable and by extension easier? Maybe. But the current system IS WORKING. I can't remember the last time I was rage starved, as Arms, Prot, or Fury. As DPS, once you are hit capped and dodge capped, your white swings generate enough rage to sustain a basic rotation. Add in random damage, Bloodlust, spec specific procs (like Blood Frenzy or Anger Management) and/or cooldowns (like Deadly Calm), and our rotation can be a little more involved, requiring more use of Heroic Strike or Cleave to dump rage or altering the priority of abilities. For once I use this phrase without sarcasm: WORKING AS INTENDED I see no reason to further "dumb down" warriors. I LOVED tanking on my warrior pre-Cata. It had a high skill cap; it was challenging. Not so much anymore. Stance dancing now as an arms warrior means using 8 macros to put yourself into Battle Stance to Overpower/Rend/Thunder Clap, and Zerker for everything else to squeeze out more damage. I'm sure the nay-sayers will mark this as a "good ol' days" post, and maybe I AM slow to change. But I think we need to ask ourselves: do we think warriors need a complete overhaul of our core mechanics AGAIN? Rage as a resource has been plagued with issues in the past, both under and over powered. I personally think Blizzard has finally happened upon a good balance, and I'd hate to see that change...again... And if we as a community DON'T think any change is needed, we need to let them know now, constructively, before these proposed changes become set in stone. Do we want to be second class Death Knights? |
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I'm sure the nay-sayers will mark this as a "good ol' days" post, and maybe I AM slow to change. But I think we need to ask ourselves: do we think warriors need a complete overhaul of our core mechanics AGAIN? Rage as a resource has been plagued with issues in the past, both under and over powered. I personally think Blizzard has finally happened upon a good balance, and I'd hate to see that change...again... Rage on my 66 prot warrior is never ending once I get into the fights a little bit. Not to mention dps had a ramp up and lost out on high movement fights if they weren't always on the boss. Yes you had to pick and choose what to use with your rage. They still intend to do that even more so with prot since they'll have less of it. The new rage design is mainly to make Prot have to make meaningful choices on spending rage and to make Arms and Fury more forgiving on high movement fights. It also makes rage less gear dependent. |
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Taken from MMO-Champ:
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Edited by Glave on 2/15/12 4:39 PM (PST)
Well before the changes I was really looking forward to PvP in MoP as a warrior again. As it stands now, I'm confused and not looking forward to mists:
1. Gag Order: Why was this removed? 2. Throwdown: Same question. It was completely removed from warriors. 3. Crippling Strikes: This is the big one. Warriors were finally going to be at least a little on par with other passive snare classes, and are IMO the class that needs them the most, but it was completely removed. I don't even know if I remember the name correctly. The one where all rended targets get hamstring applied and autoattacks apply hamstring as well. Shield Wall and Spell Reflect tooltips are showing shields required again. I am happy that avatar no longer increases your size though... That polearm that increases hunter/druid size looks ridiculous to me. |
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Well before the changes I was really looking forward to PvP in MoP as a warrior again. As it stands now, I'm confused and not looking forward to mists: Gag-order will be re-introduced as a glyph of some sort Throwdown was tied into the new charge ability, and it completly sucks that it has been removed Cripple - they have essentially balanced all snares in the game to 50% {with a few retaining a 60% slow) Other than that, Warriors Talents are un-inspired and boring. I wasn't expecting them to overhall the class, but I was excpecting a cool new mechanic or two. Not a rehashed Wotlk Prot Ability {aoe reflect}, an AOE Improved Hamstring, and My very much loved Throwdown taken away and replaced by Stormbolt. |
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Well before the changes I was really looking forward to PvP in MoP as a warrior again. As it stands now, I'm confused and not looking forward to mists: From Community Manager Kaivax If you don't see a favorite spell in the talent list, there is a good chance it is something you get automatically for choosing a particular spec. For example, all Fury warriors learn Raging Blow without having to choose it as a talent.... If you don't see a favorite spell or mechanic as a class ability, spec ability or talent, then there is a good chance it is becoming a glyph. Examples include Atonement (priest), Gag Order (Warrior), Rude Interruption (Warrior), and the Acts of Sacrifice Cleanse component (Paladin). The removal of Throwdown is a good point, but it could be added in as a glyph. I also pointed out the lack of the AOE hamstring, and was really looking forward to that particular talent. Once again, could also be added as a glyph. |
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Tier 1: Mobility and Uptime
Juggernaut: No change. Double Time: No change. Warbringer: Your charge also now knocks an enemy to the ground and stuns them for 3 seconds. This tier is unchanged for the most part. I don’t know if I like the new stun effect of Warbringer. If it’s not additional to the stun charge, then it’s only an extra 1.5 seconds. If it is, then it’s closer to 5 seconds and that’s pretty decent. This tier always has been fairly well designed and interesting for warriors to choose from in my opinion. Tier 2: Regeneration and Self Preservation Enraged Regeneration: No change. Second Wind: When you are the victim of a stun or immobilize effect, you generate 20 rage over 10s. Whenever you take direct damage, you have a 10% chance to generate 10% of your max health over 10 seconds. Impending Victory: No change, but clarified. They made second wind slightly worse in pvp with the removal of health regeneration from snares/immobilize effects, but made it more attractive to tanks by moving that health regeneration to the proc from direct damage. Mathematically Second Wind will now heal for more on a tank in a standard 5 minute boss fight than either IV or ER but it’s more likely to heal for the same when you factor in tank avoidance. It’s also not controlled like ER or IV, and always has that chance of not ever proc’ing or proc’ing so much it’s not funny. Tier 3: Shout! Shout! Let it all out! (Control) Staggering Shout: New. Causes all targets that are snared to become rooted for 5 seconds. Piercing Howl: No change. Disorienting Shout: No change, but moved from tier 4 to tier 3. There are some interesting changes in this tier to say the least. It still provides us those fun snares, roots, or CC in the form of shouts. Throwdown and Cripple are removed, which is a sad day for warriors who wanted the easy to apply snare or stun. Warriors do have access to quite a few stuns though, so it’s not too bad losing Throwdown, but cripple is a huge loss. Staggering Shout’s usefulness is going to be tricky. Does it count *any* snare effects or just ours? What abilities count as snare effects? It’s a good idea that I’d love to see tested in Beta. I like the idea and combination these talent choices better than Throwdown, Piercing Howl, and Cripple choices. Tier 4: Signature Skill Bladestorm: Slight Change. Weapon Damage has been reduced to 75%. Shockwave: Slight Change. No rage cost. Avatar: No Change. Good God! This is awesome. These abilities were our level 90 abilities, but I agree that they weren’t quite fun being level 90 abilities, having to level 5 more levels to have what we essentially already had. Bladestorm’s cooldown is still a tad long for how little it does compared to Avatar. Avatar is still beastly. Is it intentional for Shockwave to not have a rage cost? If so, that change solves some issues with us having rage competing for either threat or survivability and give us back our AE tanking ability (Though I’d prefer at this point for Shockwave be baseline to Protection if that’s going to be the case.) Tier 5: Group Support Mass Spell Reflection: New. Your spell reflect has an additional charge and protects party and raid members within 20 yards from a single spell. Safeguard: New. Run at high speed toward a target party or raid member, removing all movement impairing effects. You intercept the following attack and reduce their damage taken by 20% for 6 seconds. Replaces Intervene. Vigilance: New. Focus your protective gaze on a party or raid member, transferring 30% of their damage taken to you for 12 seconds. During the duration of Vigilance, your taunt has no cooldown and all attacks against your target enrage you for 6 seconds. Wow, this is a nice addition. Every one of these has some good utility for any specs, though for dps I’d probably see Vigilance or Safeguard getting more use than MSR. Any of these are good for tanking, though I wish Safeguard had a flat amount absorb shield over a 20% reduction. That may end up making it too good. New Vigilance is like Hand of Sacrifice and is an interesting choice. MSR is fairly decent for pvp too, though has very limited use in pve unless it counts AE volley style skills. MSR needs a new name: Reflective Wall, Parabolic Mirror, Polished Shields, etc. Tier 6: Cooldowns Deadly Calm: Slight change. While active, heroic strike and cleave deal 50% more damage. Bloodbath: No change. Storm Bolt: Slight Change. Weapon damage reduced to 50%. This tier used to be our tier 5, now it’s our tier 6, and DC was buffed. This was a pretty nice tier prior, and now it’s less of an easy choice with Heroic Throw being buffed to be exactly the same as Storm Bolt, but without the stun effect or the damage bonus on stun immune targets. It doesn’t feel new due to being a tier previously, but it’s way cooler than choosing BS, SW, or Avatar at level 90. DC’s buff and knowing how HS and Cleave work make it much more competitive to Bloodbath now, though I think Bloodbath wins out on cool factor. Other thoughts later on general skill and spec changes. |
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yea, id like to see a forum update/post that would show warrior where to obtain a charge in combat like ability, casue ive read forums, talents, abilities, specs, and more forums and i see no viable option for it. i would like to see where it is so i know whether or not charge is still usable when MOP comes out
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Charge is usable in all stances and while in combat. It currently reads "cannot be used in combat" on live, and that's no longer there on the ability. I vaguely recall blizzard confirming this, but losing intercept and the restriction tag from charge also confirms this. |
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Here's my feedback on the stickied announcement thread:
Warrior questions [Prot perspective]: 1. Double Time: would the first use of Charge not trigger the CD [normally 20 seconds] and put a buff/debuff on you lasting 20 seconds that makes the next Charge trigger the CD? If it doesn't have some sort of reset, it could be a lot to track between fights [am I on my free charge, or will this one trigger the CD]? 2. Level 30 tier: While there are some differences due to predictability and healing burst, long term average healing done on these is fairly disparate:
At these numbers, I would pretty much always take Second Wind: more healing, and completely passive. If a boss had a damage burst that required Enraged Regeneration, I would switch, but that's about it. 3. Staggering Shout: 40 second cooldown, "Causes all enemies within 20 yards that are snared to become rooted for 5 sec." What can I, as a Warrior, do to snare enemies? It looks like Hamstring, one target at a time. 40 seconds seems like a long time for an ability that might only affect one opponent [that I've used Hamstring on] or none, if I'm using it in PvP hoping one of my teammates has put up a snare effect on someone near me. 4. War Banner. Having to renew this every 15 sec. seems very annoying [especially if you have to choose where to place it on the ground when you cast it], but it is marked as Passive, so something's going to be changed about it, guess we'll see what changes in the future. |
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I really don't like having to choose between Bladestorm and Avatar. It's an AoE cooldown vs a straight DPS cooldown.
I'd like Avatar moved to the lvl 90 tier, competing with Bloodbath and Deadly Calm. Put some other AoE ability to compete with Bladestorm and Shockwave. Stormbolt should have the increased damage part removed and basically just have it be used as a ranged stun. or Just make Bladestorm baseline for all specs and get rid of Whirlwind. |
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Woo changes.
Talents: Tier 1 Nothing really to say here I guess. All three seem like they'd have their places (there are times I would take Double Time over Juggernaut in PvE, and Warbringer in PvP is pretty nifty I suppose). Solid choices all around. I do suppose, however, that Warbringer means Throwdown is no longer in the game, at least not as we know it. Maybe disappointing to PvP warriors, I dunno. Tier 2 So self-healing, cool. Removing the rage cost from Impending Victory and clarifying that even with the talent you'd be able to use VR normally are both good moves. I also like the note about "This replaces Victory Rush," and similar notes for other talents/skills. Smart move. Having not seen MoP raid/dungeon content, I can't say for certain how useful Second Wind would be, but given how it is now I don't see it being a great PvE talent. Still good in PvP though. I do want to say that I'm very leery of ER being one of the choices. Having seen some of the other melee trees this does make sense, but I guess I'm just a bit wary of it. I don't know. Tier 3 Staggering Shout to me is very... weird. I can see it being useful if, say, what was Cripple is now a glyph of some sort or it being useful in group play where you can get, say, a rogue to use FoK with Crippling to snare a group and then use Staggering, but having it as an option against Piercing Howl is a bit conflicting. Disrupting Shout is cool, though. Tier 4 Glad to see you moved these abilities to this tier and moved the previous T4 to T6. Losing abilities we'd get around that level only to not have them until level 90 again would have been a bit crappy. I can't say much about Bladestorm's new damage since you're rebalancing and I haven't seen it working in practice, but since you've said it's going up at 85 to keep DPS the same or so, I'm not worried too much. I would like to see the Disarm taken off, however. I think it's not really needed in this day and age, but that's me. Will BS hit with both weapons as Fury? Just curious. Avatar is still awesome. Even I as a proud Orc wants to macro FOR KHAZ MODAN to Avatar. Shockwave is still the same too. I can see a place for all of these really, so good job here. Tier 5 Mass Spell Reflect is cool but we had that in Wrath in Prot so not too exciting. Still exciting, though. Safeguard is pretty danged awesome. Huge thanks for giving us HoSac in the form of Vigilance. As a tank I'll miss the constant infinitaunts, but it adds a pretty large utility to the warrior's arsenal. Anything to help warrior utility in raids (and PvP I guess) is immensely beneficial. Big kudos there Bliz. Tier 6 Deadly Calm is better than it was in the previous talent calc with the damage buff along with the making HS/Cleave free. Bloodbath seems pretty awesome. I'm guessing the damage is going to have to kind of stack like Deep Wounds does, else the talent would just be underwhelming. Storm Bolt is also awesome. We can be a Mountain King fully, thank you. I can see this as being part of the reason Throwdown was removed, but 350% weapon damage is a huge chunk of damage against raid bosses. We'll see how it holds up. General Class Notes: -Heroic Strike at level 1 versus Strike is a good change. -Pummel's CD inc to 15 seconds. If the game is balanced around that I don't have a huge problem with it. -Berserker Rage's duration down to 6 seconds. Guessing it's to match Enrage lasting 6 seconds as well. -Can we do something about the downsides to Recklessness? Either the longer CD or the increased damage taken please. It's definitely outdated. -I'm glad to see Deep Wounds back in Rend's spot. I think it's a better solution. -Is Intimidating Shout gone? -I still really love War Banner. Increasing the range on some might be nice, and maybe upping the damage reduction on the Demo banner might be nice. Really liking the Skull Banner. Warriors should have amazing utility and buffs in MoP. Quick Arms Notes -Thanks for finally making Slam instant cast. -Taste for Blood only procs every 9 seconds compared to what it is now. Is this trying to have more free GCDs as melee? -I'm guessing the weapon damage change to Strikes of Opportunity is with the new changes in mind, so again, not worrying too much about the damage until I actually see it. Quick Prot Notes -Cool beans about Devastate and Revenge having no rage costs. We'll need that with Shield Block/Barrier's rage costs. -Woo Shield Barrier! Magic damage reduction is awesome. -Woo Thunder Clap applying the Demo debuff! Also, cool beans on simplifying debuffs and such. Quick Fury Notes -Damage buff to Wild Strike is well appreciated. -Healing on BT severely diminished. Hopefully that's looked at since it's kind of a nice perk. -The change to Single Minded Fury seems odd at first, but it kind of makes sense a bit given the general damage difference between 1h weapons and 2h weapons. -Meat Cleaver as Fury only is quite nice as it separates how Fury and Arms do AoE damage. -Again, the change to WW damage I'm not worried about so much since damage is being redone and such. -Woo, new icons for WS/RB! -Still a bit wary about Enrages in MoP, especially with Fury's mastery. I worry a bit that unless rage is renormalized (again), we'll basically need 100% uptime on Enrage to even have enough rage to do a basic rotation (BT -> RB -> WS as filler, HS as needed, CSmash on CD). I guess we'll see in beta. -I still don't like the change to Flurry. It definitely devalues crit as a stat, but maybe the Enrage change will make up for that. Again, we'll see. Hard to say now. -This applies to Arms as well, but thank you for reducing CSmash's rage cost to 30. 80 rage was a terrible, terrible thing. Also, cool debuff. -I guess Rampage is gone? I know that's supposed to be one of the buffs still in the game, and I hope the Skull Banner isn't that. I guess that's all I have to say now from what we have. Can't wait until beta. |
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They also changed it to 100% weapon damage (75% for cleave).
It needs to be at most 3 minutes and no damage taken penalty. That's the only way to bring it back to usefulness for any spec. 5 minutes and 20% taken penalty is antiquated.
I like that it's auto apply from a singular attack. Gives Devastate a bonus as well now that Devastate will not proc Sword and Board. It's also nice seeing damage spread around, rather than all tacked into shield slam. Blood And Thunder applies it too, so no more spending that extra GCD! Yay.
Could be, would be a shame to see it go though. |
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Edited by Dauzat on 2/15/12 8:34 PM (PST)
General
Tier 1
Tier 2
Tier 3
Tier 4
Tier 5
Tier 6
I do have one gripe about the current set-up though: I undetstand that class's are being completly retooled and everything is getting a second looking-at, but Warriors are the only class that has not recieved a single NEW ability. Blizzard is in the process of redifining the purpose of class talents/abilities and the only thing Warriors have gotten is a glorified Totem [War Banner?]? Shamans are going to transform into elemental monsters, Rogues will potentially giving their entire group stealth! Deathknights can literally play the Darth Vader card. Mages will paint the grounds with beneficial aura's or powerful hazards for enemies. Warlocks are essentially being completly re-designed and are given some really nifty portal effects and the ability to summon multiple demons. Hunters are now able to polymorph people and Lasso them to an Arrow. Paladins are going to literally blind people with how awesome they are [ not kidding...its a talent]. So many of the Druid talents have multiple utlity functions that change drastically per form. And my concern is this: Where is the equivalent mechanics for warriors? Something new and diffrent, instead we get a plethora of [though awesome] returning abilities from the past? Can we get -some- new effects and abilitiy options? please? |
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Edited by Jep on 2/15/12 9:06 PM (PST)
I'm a Prot/Arms warrior who does a fair amount of raiding (usually completing normal over the course of a patch, changed things up a bit this patch and we're very close to 2/8H). I usually tank, but on some one-tank fights I'll switch to dps. I occasionally do some arena or BGs in Prot (I don't gear to flag carry and try to give someone else the job as much as possible).
Talents Tier 1 - Movement Love it. Tier 2 - Health Regeneration I feel that this tier is now fairly solid (once balanced in beta). If/when I don't take Enraged Regeneration as a tank, I'll miss it, but I can understand where the designers are coming from. Tier 3 - Shouts This was fine before the update, but Staggering Shout is a great addition, and the tier feels much better for it. Tier 4 - Signature Abilities I like the movement down the tree, it should make warriors much more fun once they hit level 60. As Arms and PvP protection I'm excited for this tier. Very excited. Avatar especially, but even the choice of shockwave and bladestorm will be good. As a tank, unfortunately, I can't see myself ever going for Bladestorm. Avatar will be the choice for anything single target and Shockwave for where that stun will be handy, or I need the extra AoE dps. Bladestorm just doesn't have that much appeal unless the adds are coming out in 1.5 minute intervals AND our raid team seriously requires that extra burst. Most adds don't work that way as far as I can recall. Tier 5 - Protection The new look Vigilance looks fun, but my concern here is for Mass Spell Reflection in PvE. Very few abilities can be reflected (or even deflected), and even fewer of these are cast at the raid. What I would propose is a small magic damage reduction. That should balance it out. Tier 6 - DPS Deadly Calm just hasn't looked anywhere near as fun as it is now ever since these talents came around. I can understand that why too - these talents are purely a damage increase (whereas free rage would be a defensive increase for protection) and because the other two talents would need to be VERY strong to compete with it. Bloodbath looks alright and would probably be a fairly big dps increase, and Storm Bolt is a nice ranged attack to replace Heroic Throw. My problem with this tier is that it just doesn't get the blood pumping ENOUGH. Here's what I would do: - Return Deadly Calm to it's current in-game effect. - Recklessness now causes our attacks to leave our enemies bleeding for X% of the damage we dealt, but increases our damage taken by Y%. Bloodbath now increases critical strike chance by Z%. Recklessness would stay baseline, and Bloodbath would stay a talent. The increased critical strike chance of Bloodbath would generate more rage for Protection warriors, giving it a defensive purpose. - Switch places with Avatar, increase the stun duration of Storm Bolt. (Perhaps add in a damage reduction to avatar). Tier 4 now has four similar semi-utility, semi-dps abilities each with their own niche and flavour. Tier 6 is now BIG WARRIOR COOLDOWN. All three abilities increase damage done and allow for extra rage generation. Adjust cooldowns and durations as necessary. Abilities I don't have much to say here, because I can't really tell how everything's going to work until I finally get my hands on it, or hear reports from beta as to what it's like. I do like Shield Barrier. I hope Berserker Rage doesn't activate the increased rage generation. It's never felt like a minor cooldown, merely a minor emergency button (whether to give Fury another enrage, to break Fear/Sap/Incapacitate, or to allow for Enraged Regeneration). I'd probably macro it into my abilities if that was the case, rendering the CC immunities and Enraged Regeneration parts useless. What I dislike is War Banner. - Mocking Banner is quite clearly the current Challenging Shout. I like Challenging shout, so that's fine. - Demoralising Banner is a simple Raidwall. With our tier 5 talents, I don't really feel this is needed (especially if Mass Spell Reflection is changed to be useful in PvE). - Skull Banner is where the real problem is. This ability would be Bloodlust 2, and as such either all raids would require a warrior, or the ability would need to be spread around to other classes. The other problem is that crit works in strange ways with different classes, but haste is a little more consistent (haste never flat plateaus, but there are many different breakpoints for some classes). Frost mages for example gain very little benefit from crit once they're soft capped (which they should already be), however Bear druids (in their current form) gain STUPENDOUS amounts of both damage and damage reduction from extra crit. Everyone to a certain extent would enjoy extra crits, but I don't see the point in a second bloodlust-like ability. Naturally War Banner would have a somewhat shared cooldown for all three effects. This would mean that which one is used would be a matter for the raid leader to decide, as two of them are raid cooldowns, instead of the warrior themselves. In my opinion this is a very, very bad design. The other problem with the shared cooldown is that Mocking Banner/Challenging Shout isn't a raid cooldown, it's a tanking cooldown. Having that conflict just doesn't make sense. I also don't like the idea of putting down a banner and something happening as a warrior ability. I already carry around two banners (one guild one and one Horde one), and when I put one down, it just stands there, we get a little bit of a buff and that's the end of that. The enemy might attack if they want to, but I won't really notice or care that much. There are too many other interesting spell effects, noises and other things going on for a banner to really be noticed or feel special. Finally, I don't think warriors need another raid cooldown. We already have our tier 5 talents, Shattering Throw and Rallying Cry. There always seems to be one group of people complaining that warriors don't have enough utility, but I disagree with them. We DO have enough, and to get another one is just plain going over the top. What should we get to replace it? I don't know. Perferably not a multiple choice ability or another raid cooldown. EDIT: Clarified Recklessness/Bloodbath suggestion. |
