World of Warcraft™

Frost has no place.

Look at the spectrum of classes: Plate classes like Paladin's with Bubble and heals are impossible to down, literally, and Frost spec has no other survivability or mobility - contrast Holy Paladin or other specs - against Rogues and Mages; now add Druid Bear form.

In addition, going for full Resil makes it pretty impossible to do any damage because of Resil on opposing players - and not gemming Str - much less to have any place for Mastery.

However, the game already has DPS classes. Having 4 roots and a little healing that takes multiple abilities to activate, how does that play? The spec has no specialty besides the class diseases, and those, in PvP, are useless, even if just because survivability is so low.

Blood is better even if it hits like water sprinkles.

(BGs)

Now add that going back and forth from specs is near impossible without multiple sets of gear.

Frost is a spec that benefits immensely from your teammates ability to control opponents.
Pair a frost DK with a Rogue, Ret or Feral druid and they're free to put out a ton of damage without fear of reprisal. Live fast or die hard.
Frost also offers an interesting dilemma for the enemy team. You either attack the ret paladin, or he is free to use word of glory on the frost dk. So basically you being left alone is bad for the enemy team, so you play with other specs who benefit greatly from being left alone.

Your post helps nothing. The OP is obviously talking about BGs.

Figure out something better to do than troll the DK forums.

*Make Frost another survivability spec, but with damage, so that people have to pre-made. Where else does the spec go?



(Edit) Not posting anything helpful, like in the post below, is either spamming or trolling.

Your post helps nothing. The OP is obviously talking about BGs.

Figure out something better to do than troll the DK forums.

*Make Frost another survivability spec, but with damage, so that people have to pre-made. Where else does the spec go?

disagreeing with your opinion doesnt make us trolls.
come up with a coherent argument in english that makes sense and maybe people might take time to listen to you.

Your post helps nothing. The OP is obviously talking about BGs.

Figure out something better to do than troll the DK forums.

*Make Frost another survivability spec, but with damage, so that people have to pre-made. Where else does the spec go?

Horse_ebooks plays a DK?

02/16/2012 09:30 AMPosted by Laina

Pair a frost DK with a Rogue, Ret or Feral druid and they're free to put out a ton of damage without fear of reprisal.

Except, how often does someone get a Rogue or Feral to stay with them? No matter what, this game is still a 1v' game unless multiboxing.. per se. In addition, when is it ever even group numbers? Blood is better because most of the time going against 4 people is necessary.

That's why in bgs you run with mobs and in arena you have partners. Stop trying to rambo !@#$ in pvp and you'll probably see better results.

Is this a complaint about battlegrounds or arenas? Because your complaints seem to be about survival, which lead me to believe it was about arena where survivability is more of an issue.
In bgs you pop cooldowns and hope for killing machine procs.
Its in the nature of pugs to be disorganized, so unless you play with a friend or healer regularly your going to suffer for it. Thats just how the game is.

Blood does virtually no damage now and couldn't even hope to delay 4 halfway decent players beyond a minute at most.

02/16/2012 09:42 AMPosted by Willmc

Stop trying to rambo

Dude, I know how to play the game. People gank, like Farm in AB, when that is the only spawn. What, in EoTS, is comprised in any part of the battlefield, especially the middle? A bunch of people huddled, thus getting hit a few times by 4 different people is very probable.

Logic like "look at the spectrum of classes and abilities and tell me where Frost has a place" is meant to be just that, not "play better".

(edit)

Blood does virtually no damage now and couldn't even hope to delay 4 halfway decent players beyond a minute at most.

I call BS. The game is advancing beyond "get premades or do horribly", and I have videos to prove the opposite of your statement.

(Edit 2) OP is about BGs, when survivability is slim. That statement is valid, because people are looking to ideas like Mage healers and Rogue tanks. Beyond that, though, this is that the spec isn't fun. The game has too many DPS classes, and, otherwise, Frost has nothing else to keep it interesting, like a Druid's forms or Mage's/Rogue's control.

Playstyles are what matter.

Tell me where Frost has a place

Healer hating damage and massive peels. I understand if it's playstyle doesn't suite you. A lot of people don't like Frost's playstyle, but to say it has no place in PvP because YOU don't like it's playstyle is false.

I doubt any of said videos are post vengeance nerf.
I've been playing my warrior while I grind a full pvp set, Blood is nothing now, Disarm, throwdown, Charge stun and they're dead. Because all of them think its possible to take on four players.

Also I didnt say get a premade. I said get a friend, or a healer to play with, two people isnt a premade, its a group.
Frost has very high burst damage, to counter this it is very susceptible to snares and roots.
It has nearly the same survival tools as unholy with few differences. Its death coils are weaker but you can build RP faster to throw more at yourself, You dont have Death's Advance but you can root people with chains of ice, You have easier access to death runes for death strike and finally you dont have access to AMZ, but is AMZ really the deciding factor for survivability to you?

Playstyles are what matter.

Oh, this is an opinion thing.
Solution. Dont play frost. There are plenty of people who enjoy the spec and make it work for them.

02/16/2012 09:57 AMPosted by Laina

Oh, this is an opinion thing.

The following statement was invalid. If it's an opinion thing, reason out what I think is wrong with the class before saying don't play it.

--

If you would read the post again, you could decide if what you're saying isn't already covered.

1) - "burst damage"

[taking] full Resil makes it pretty impossible to do any damage because of Resil on opposing players

2) - [impossible to do damage, too easy to take]

The heals are weak, especially in contrast to Paladins or the survivability of Druids or the control of multiple other classes, just because they are DPS classes. They each do damage, so survivability, in reality, is ridiculously low -- "Frost has no place", because other classes have such great survivability, like Rogue's vanish, a Frost Mage's control, that playing against all these classes at once is nigh impossible.

Frost has issues sure, but burst damage is not one of them. The spec is widely accepted as the burst damage spec. Nearly every Frost strike you do should have a killing machine proc behind it making it crit for about 20k or more with pillar of frost up, combined with very large necrotic strikes thats a lot of potential damage.
Just becuase you dont know how to play frost does not mean its a bad spec, like I said, plenty of people can make it work, myself included.

Then, what is coming, is that the game has no room for another burst spec with low survivability. Even a Rogue can get out of a tight situation, and so many classes have too much CC for the spec to stand still.. enough to get KM procs and such.

I can play some more matches, but maybe the point is that some people have full Conquest gear, and that's really difficult to get late in the season w/ a 1650 weekly cap. That Resil would be hard to match. However, it should be a lot easier to play a game than grinding out weeks worth of Conquest points.

(edit) *A game can't be so seasonal.

Honestly? Diseases should keep most classes from using stuns/slows. They don't keep Rogues from Vanishing currently, and too many classes have CC.

In addition, I'm still looking for interesting conversation that actually focuses on the original post.

massive peels

Seems otherwise.

(edit)

PS: NSs hit like sand. The Frost Fever dot hits for more, literally.

Frost is good. You just actually have to pay attention rather than the encouraged tunneling unholy has. Also you have to use cds correctly otherwise you find out corpse explosion is an ability innate to frost, but its your own.

Sounds like a player issue.

02/16/2012 11:37 AMPosted by Ohgodfleas

Sounds like a player issue.

Sounds like you're in auto- mode.

I've made apparent my problems with the spec in the OP, while looking for rebuttals and logical, relevant statements.

Again,

The spec has too much to gem/reforge for, like Mastery, Str, and Resil, thus it reflects the general status of the class - a jumble of ideas that have been tweaked but never properly rebalanced to be played against other classes. The utility is a 1/10 compared to a majority of other classes, and mobility and survivability are next to none.

(Edit)

It's a Plate class that can't get hit any more than a Rogue with high Resil -- a melee that has to stand back and cast to stay alive and, thus, do the most damage.

The game already has DPS classes.