World of Warcraft™

Well i have away from the game for 2.5 years. Just reactivated old account one week ago. An understatement is how much this game has changed. When i last raided basically i used Demonology and Des depending on my mood.

For you lock players i have some questions i wanted to ask and all responses are appreciated.

1. How are locks currently in DPS? My friends I have talked to say overall doesn't seem like locks are in high demand. Even nin the guild i now joined there aren't many locks.

2. How are the speccs? When i left i used demon and des. I checked the wow armory and seen almost every lock was AFF specc.

3. Can i ask in this thread or is it better for me to read alot and ask what the current spell rotation is? With all the changes to this game and this class and the new spells i'll behonest i have no clue what i am doing lol.

Those are my main 3. God i have so many more since this game feels brand new to me. But that's the general ones as I level and try to re learn this class. On a side not. I would always use this forum and the ones at WOWhead. I am having problems with that site creating a new account since my old one doesn't work.

If anyone uses that site as well. I have some questions if you could assist me since i can't ask around on their boards without an account. Thank you for reading my thread and well await any responses.

In reply to number 1 (and it may just be the way I play) destro dps is not good. however somehow I can consistantly be above people with much better dps in total damage. (really too bad that only helps in groups you know).

Aff is the best in tossing out dots by far. demon is the best for singles, (they are much more melee now then they were).

destro is second best pretty much everywhere in pve as far as locks go. with that said I would say it depends greatly on your playstyle, the differance isn't that huge, and if one clicks with you go with it. except in arenas/rbg's pvp afflic is really the the best there.

For rotations, it is so situational i more or less have to go by what we are heading into. to be of much use to give a standard. (even then I am much more used to destro).

ok let the flames start. =)

1. Locks are great at doing dps now but locks also have a harder "rotation" and you need some insight on how locks function in order to achieve the amazing dps that they can deliver. Because of that, locks are the least represented class.

2. Spec is really fight dependent. There're wonderful threads on this forum that will tell you which spec's the best for which fight.

3. You should read up on your own. noxxic.com and elitistjerks.com are both great sources.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1009751028
It's starting to show its age, but it's still very accurate.

Destro DPS is actually very good. Affliction is the best at multi-target, Demo is best for singletarget patchwork(immobile) fights. Destro is within 2k of Demo though, and is better at multi-target fights due to BoH. Demo AE is the undisputed best, and also has the best burst.

You are probably best off going Demo and Afflic, and gearing pure haste after the hit cap. Haste is, before a plateau, the BiS stat for Afflic, and despite mastery being best for Demo, haste is within a few hundred DPS of it. The reason I suggest haste is that you probably won't be able to get a second set for now, and mastery is absolutely terrible for Afflic.

And I say you should spec Demo/Afflic, because in all honesty, everything Destro brings to the table, between the two of them they bring it better.

And because I still want it stickied, here's a very good Demo guide:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2913172711

Well Kaleva yeah as i said i found it funny dam near anyone i looked up in the armory was DES. But and mind you i havent raided yet, when i specced DES to try it out, my god the burst is insane. I am cruising through the mobs and quests in Hygal like nothing.

Every talent in the tree seems like add damage here or debuff there, dunno how that would seem bad in a raid. Anyone reading this who has been raiding and tried DES, feel free to comment on DES damage in a raid.

Ya AFF was always a good specc all around. Even when i last played, DES was kinda in number 1, but aff a close second. Oh and ok i just stopped maybe 2 months before lich king came out. Trial of the champion raid just started so...

Demon does seem like they added alot more as far as the pets are concerned, damage i don't see much changes at the moment.

You mentioned arenas and pvp. Mind you i love the felguard always have and will. with all the changes to him with bladestorm and the stun axe throw and the new jump when you metamorph, i would assume DEMON rules pvp. Any comments on why not?

I would assume rotation would start always with Curse of elements obviously. Ya after that i mean god we can do the soulbum buff for instant soulfire and i dunno lol.

ADELE: Yes the few real life friends i have talked to said almost verbatim what you did. My buddy said that the rotation was harder and went back to his rogue, and also some guild members said that was why the class has not been represented as much.

Regardless even with NAXX came out, i go into a raid and people were like OMG avime i thought all locks quit lol. Then go in des specc and rule the damage charts hehe. Mind you hunters and then when they added Death Knights and them being gods it was not always easy but i always did the top 3.

Yes i know that we do have dual specc. But that is interesting that your saying specc is fight dependent. The old raids i would just be demon or des the whole raid. i will need to check into these threads. Also some common sense will kick in lol. Obviously if i am specc AFF choosing instant Howl Of Terror or Curse of exhaustion is Pvp and not raid wise.

yes elite jerks a friend of mine reccomended to me a few hours ago. will check that myself. yes sadly tried wow head again with no luck. sent them an feedback email hoping to resolve the issue. but will try the jerk site. ty for the post.

Well, the reason Demo dosen't rule PvP is because it's not as good as laying down DoT's and Fears, which is extremely important in Cata. The pressure from Afflic is much greater than from Demo. Also, Demo's amazing burst potential comes from Mastery stacking and Metamorphosis. When Meta is on CD our DPS kind of... Dies.

And yes, CotE is always your first spell, but as Demo you need to have a complex starting rotation called pet twisting, which is in the Demo thread I linked. Pet twisting is the reason why Demo is considered so hard to play, because it really is quite difficult until you get the hang of it.

EDIT: I've mistaken Cata for MoP... Woe unto me.

ROBIN: Ok i know i can read the stat but can you tell me fight wise what Boh does? Is it basically i cast it on the boss and it damages every mob near it for a certain amount of damage? Also you said Demon AE is the best, did you mean AOE and how so? I have been questing just trying each specc out so forgive my lack of trying these spells and talents out.

Ya i mean i did at one point during the naxx fights get a dot timer and use aff. i did in some way enjoy not just spamming incinerate all day like des. But with all the new spells and abilities i need to look up rotation and wonder things like instant soulfire are they even used and do you use Bane of Doom now or just agony?

also the biggest thing im lost on with aff is drain soul. Before even in the spell description it would say when the enemy is under 25% health does 4x the damage. Now it does not. For my own experience i sent the voidwalker in to tank some mobs in hygal and just using only drain soul and killing mobs in 2 casts. But now i dunno is it just cast dots and spam shadow bolt or more complex?

also what did u mean talking about mastery being best for aff?

BoH does the opposite of what you think, it causes damage you do to everything but the target of BoH to do 15% of that damage to the target of BoH. Basically it lets you DoT up the boss, put BoH on ihm, and then DPS other stuff.

To make BoH simple: It can be used to keep doing damage asides from DoT's while damaging other targets.

Yes, I did mean AoE (I leave out the "of" because I don't like abbreviating short words). Demo has the best AoE because of several factors, but principal among them are the Felguards Felstorm, Hellfire, Shadowflame, and Immolation Aura(Metamorphosis required).

Instant soulfire is used principally by Destro, although Afflic can do it too. As all three specs, you use BoD if you believe the target will live for the full duration, and BoA if you think it won't.

As for the Affliction rotation, it's basically CoE, haunt, and DoT. Cast Haunt on CD and spam SB as a filler, and obviously refresh DoTs. BUT, once the target goes below 25% HP, you swap SB filler with Drain Soul filler, while still refreshing DoTs and Haunt.

I don't remember saying that, but Mastery is absolutely terrible for Affliction.

As destruct i Have my instant SF tied to most of my cooldowns, it is almost always reseved for a boss. in that case it's soulfire, dots. immolate, conflag, incinerate, incinerate.. then whatever cooldowns or whatever procs.

im sure this isnt op but it does ok, (heck i could learn a lot here).

anyway maybe it is a start for you in destro

When you said for demon that mastery stacking and metamorphosis, what did you refer to? Also i understand the dots that AFF put up for pvp, so the felguard doesn't become an issue? I only ask because last i played in BG's, he was very good at killing, and now with his increased spells, just thinking maybe more so.

Yes you did say that mastery is bad for AFF and good for demon. Again this may sound like a dumb question, but is that a glyph or something lol. I dunno what mastery refers to.

Yes i will have to check out your thread on this pet twisting. For me honestly just spamming 1-2 spells doesnt excite me as much as a complex system. So while many people prefer simplicity, my thing is who wants to do a 2-4 hour raid mashing the same button?

I mean for NAXX i used DES alot mainly because well the numbers i put up were impressive, but once in awhile i would come in with my Daily Demon specc, but just i was doing ok but wasn't matching the massive chaos bolt crits.

Yes you made a good point on Demon and AOE, because hell when i was in Naxx i would pop demon form and use immo and dam near die everytime from the aggro lol but the damage was insane. Also is hellfire used now? It used to kill me very fast. Thank you on the Doom versus agony, will remember that.

Yes on the aff rotation i got lost because now just hitting 81, i was thinking of the rotation you said,but ok agony and corrup are instant and unstable has a timer. Is it wiser to get the instant off first or unstable cause it does more damage? Also i just learned fel flame. Because it's an instant spell i noticed it's not powerful enough to just spam, but i'm guessing it's there to just save you time correct?

Obviously if it resets unstable then casting that versus the 1.5 on unstable saves time.

ok so right now doing some dungeons with guildies. Just completed throne of the tides. I'm using the feldog since now his shadow bite is stronger right? My current rotation is COE, then haunt, agony, corrup,unstable, then fel flame. I figure cause it's instant and makes unstable last longer.

On bosses i been using doom and casting instant soul fire after the dots since it's more then a shadow bolt. Been killing each mob spamming SB then using drain soul. Ok soul swap i think i have down, but feel free to correct me. It's basically a time saver when you fight 2 mobs correct? Take mob 1, dot it up then throw the dots on mob 2 instantly without recasting them all then have to go back to mob 1 and re dot it up.

As for as aoe i just been casting rain of fire cause i wasn't sure do i use that or seed of corruption? Other then that it seems easy to play again. Also i just got 4 new pieces of gear and i understand what mastery means now lol. Basically just makes your dps stronger correct? Spells do more damage the higher my mastery is.

I know i am not raiding yet. But if i see gear with crit strike or haste or hit, i have always known hit is priority 1 because you need to hit the mobs. What is a good number to aim for? Then haste is gona be more important than crit strike correct?

What I meant by the Mastery stacking Metamorphosis was that, for PvE and PvP both, Mastery is in general the best stat to stack after hit. As to what Mastery is, as of Cata a new stat has been added that has a specific benefit depending on your specialization. Demo's mastery effects their demons damage, and their own damage during Metamorphosis.

The Felguard is a good pet in PvP, as Felstorm is very good at dealing a lot of upfront damage if you can keep him on target, and Axe Toss is also great CC. However, the Felhunter is better, because if you look at his ability Shadowbite, you will see that it increases in damage based on how many DoT's you have on target. Not to mention, Cataclysm isn't called Casterclysm for no reason. Casters are some of the most dangerous people you will find in PvP, and the Hunter has tools to deal with them better than the Felguard.

Hellfire is used as a major AoE tool now yes, the self damage is a good deal lower, and the damage it puts out is just astounding. Healers will generally know that Demo uses Hellfire, but just in case they don't, give them a heads up so they can throw a HoT on you (a single Renew or Rejuvination will easily keep you up).

Unstable should go up first, followed by instants, and while you're casting the instants run to the boss. After you finish casting the instants, use the spell Shadowflame. The damage this ability causes is, in itself, trivial: But the synergy it has with the aforementioned ability Shadowbite on the Felhunter causes even more damage. Just watch out for boss AoE. You will want to weave in and out of close range to keep Shadowflame up as much as possible. This is true for both Demo and Afflic, but not Destro as Destro uses the Imp as its best damage pet.

You should only use Fel Flame while moving, as it's our only spammable instant, and its damage is terrible. If you're standing still however, you should always prefer to refresh the DoT by recasting than by using Fel Flame.

Yes robin thank you for explaining that to me and i feel like a total idiot now LOL. It says it right there on the talent tree summary i'm like wow miss the small things.

OK thank you for the HELLFIRE tip, will remember. Also the shadowflame tip I NEVER would have thought of, im leveling an alt priest as im typing this, but will try these changes when i hop back on my lock.

Yes and as for UNstable, i just grabbed a charbringer in hygal, unstable lasts 15 sec. i thought that around 5 cast fel flame it would refresh it, it just adds 5 more seconds, so yes for the full 15, recast unstable unless moving for some quick damage.

2 main questions for you.

1.Ok so then the rotation should be COE, HAUNT,UNSTABLE,AGONY,CORRUP, then shadowflame and spam shadowbolt?

2. You said Mastery helps Demon and bad for Aff. Under the summary it says increases damage done by your demon servants and damage you deal while transformed into a demon by 31%. Each point in mastery increases damage by 2.3%.

AFF says : increases all periodic damage you deal by 22%. Each point into mastery increases shadow damage by an additional 1.63%.

Now how is adding more damage not beneficial for AFF?

1)Opener looks okay but you need to precast shadowbolt first to apply the shadow and flame debuff. Use bane of doom over agony on single target.

2)Mastery is not bad/worthless for affliction, it's just that the other stats are better. Mastery is very strong for demonology because it buffs doomguard and meta which increases the burst you can deal inside your cds by a huge amount.

It's hard to keep optimal gearsets for each spec but in general having high haste will be best if you play all 3. If you are demo hardcore you just need to hit certain haste plateaus depending on what your gear is like and max mastery.

Our DPS is good. Any spec is fine.
It's not that we're not in high demand, we're just not very popular. We're a rarity.

If you want to know more about detailed spell rotations sites like noxxic will give you a rough feel for each spec and tell you the basic spell priorities.
You can also find more detailed guides like Freohr's raiding Demonology guide, which is floating around the forums somewhere.

Everything that Whereismyfd said is true, although I still stress that you cast Agony over Doom if the target won't live for the full Doom duration.

If you can't keep two seperate gear sets , than yes, Haste is a good stat for all Lock specializations. Haste is actually within a few hundred DPS of Mastery for Demo, so it isn't frowned upon if you can only get one gear set.

As to the specifics of why Mastery isn't the best for Afflic, I probably shouldn't have used the word terrible. Mastery isn't neccessarily bad for Affliction, it just so happens that haste (Which will give Affliction more ticks from DoTs) adds up to doing more damage than their Mastery. I don't know the specifics of Affliction stats though, so I recommend looking at the Shadowflame guide at the top of the forums for the stat weights.

whereismy: well i understand the shadow and flame debuff, but i figured COE does more damage by spells while the debuff adds more crit, but also coe is instant.

Well besides mastery and haste what other stats do we get? Also i never understood haste and DOTS. I mean say a spell takes 2 secs to cast, haste would make that spell say 1.5. But a dot is a dot haste doesn't change the time the dot lasts.

As Demo, you pretty much always want to reforge to Mastery (unless you have to use a haste set) once you are past the hit cap. No other stats have as big an impact as Mastery and Haste. And as Affliction, Haste is the absolute best.

As to why Haste is the best, no it dosen't make the DoT last longer, it does just the opposite. It lowers the time between each tick of the DoT, and once it gets so low it reaches the next tick, seeing as it can't remove a tick, it adds another and goes back to the original time of the DoT. It can do this several times before the next Haste plateau is too high to be feasibly achieved.

eversca: I really don't care about being really popular right now. In some ways i enjoy it because u wont see hey we have too many locks in the raid lol. Ya i seen as far as rotation and what not robin linked that guys stickie about demoology, i looked at some of it earlier amd it does seem pretty nice.

As far as any specc being nice, well still i mean certain speccs would be better then other that's just the way it's always been.