World of Warcraft™

Because there is nothing new. It's the same old pig with new makeup. No new playstyles, major homogenization (every one needs a speed boost, a execute, ect...), no new mechanics. No new anything that matters.

Classes are simple. 85 levels and we have hardly any useful end game tools. Seriously the amount of abilities a class has, compared to the amount of abilities the class actively uses is pathetic.

Why do specs offer no meaningful difference now, and they will offer no meaningful difference in MoP. Every disc priest is very similar, every arms war is very similar, ect ect.
Why does every heal spec have to have a flash heal, heal, and greater heal equivalent? For that matter, why must every healer be able to do heal any aspect of a raid good? Why can't they have specific classes to do specific roles? If I wanna tank heal, I look to role a class that specializes in it, likewise for raid healing.
Why can so many bosses have their core mechanics boiled down to "Move left, move right, don't stand in fire, burn."

This is why I am actively looking to new MMO's. WoW makes no attempt to offer anything new. I won't lie, I really enjoyed my time on WoW, but I honestly can't justify it anymore.

Personally I'm worried MOP won't hold me because it looks like my PVP disc priest will play more or less exactly the same for the third expansion in a row. I'm already playing a lower damage and lower haste and less exciting (yay flash heal spam) version of the wotlk pvp disc. And next expansion it looks like nothing real has changed (except I lose two of my fun heals, renew and binding), since 3 talent tree revisions in disc still seems to have far lower focus on it from the devs, which to me smells of the same bull that happened in the first patch of cata where disc were released useless and the blues didn't even realise it till a month or so in ("We think priests will be good if not great!") at which point they had to buff the living hell out of us because of how far behind we were.

And the fun part is the recent blue post for the recent talent tree revision mentioned that two of the other classes hadn't changed much for some reason, but failed to mention disc until someone called them on it, making me think disc is actually seemingly around the same place as it should be, and they just didn't realise that "where it should be " happened to involve no real changes till someone pointed it out to them, and they had to think quick for a response.

Really not very confident with where this game is headed for my class at the moment.

-New Talent Systems
-Pet Battles
-Pve Scenarios
-New Class
-New Race
-New Continent
-Revamp of the classes
-Change to stats again

Yeah, your right they arent changing anything.

Me I'm afraid MOP will actually drive me away from the game.

I've been playing on and off since launch, and I am still having fun in battlegrounds right now. But the MOP talent system and the new dispel system make me think I won't be having any fun in PvP in MOP.

So many CC abilities, so few ways to prevent them. I'm already fed up with stuns, fears and poly. I won't play another whole expansion where I keep dying at 100% mana because I was bursted while CCed the whole time.

Me I'm afraid MOP will actually drive me away from the game.

I've been playing on and off since launch, and I am still having fun in battlegrounds right now. But the MOP talent system and the new dispel system make me think I won't be having any fun in PvP in MOP.

So many CC abilities, so few ways to prevent them. I'm already fed up with stuns, fears and poly. I won't play another whole expansion where I keep dying at 100% mana because I was bursted while CCed the whole time.

Agreed, instant and unavoidable CC was out of control this entire expansion, and it doesn't look like it will let up in mists either.

-New Talent Systems
-Pet Battles
-Pve Scenarios
-New Class
-New Race
-New Continent
-Revamp of the classes
-Change to stats again

Yeah, your right they arent changing anything.

And in your attempt to make me look like a fool, you exposed your self as an idiot.
Throughout all of those "new" things, nothing changes. The game is still the same as it has been for the past 4 or 5 years I played it.

I guess people have played it already.

02/22/2012 02:07 PMPosted by Víke

I guess people have played it already.

Is future you too poor to afford a time machine? l2invest.


Anyway, OP, I will do my best to remain helpful, rather than condescending following this introduction. Know that this is the eleventy-first time I have responded to this exact post, written by a possibly completely different Death Knight who has also refrained from checking the last page to find his opinion parroted by no fewer than three people.

You speak of not wanting homogenization, and wanting more varied encounter design in the same post. These things are at cross-purposes.

By providing more classes/specs/roles some certain utility, it becomes increasingly viable to produce encounters that call for such a utility. As niches become 'softer' (that is, some specs/classes are better at certain functions within a role, but none incapable/detrimental), it becomes easier to "build up" the mechanics on which raiding is founded. It's clear that you know the whole thing is, in large part, an exercise in choreography with some math thrown in for flavour, but think about the more advanced choreography that can be explored when you know that every character can increase their movement speed, if only temporarily. Think of the damage models that can be explored when it is a certainty that every character has some means of avoiding/mitigating harm, and that every Healer has some means of repairing it. Consider the sorts of aoe/burst challenges that can be put forward when there's no danger of completely shutting out an entire raid group by requiring such!

If your main hope for PvE, and raiding in particular, is that more interesting mechanics be encountered, know that giving every character of an appropriate role some tool designed to suit every sort of problem faced, even if they have varying degrees of applicability, is the way to see it come to fruition. When putting a screw in, it is vital that everyone have a screwdriver. Not everyone needs the computerized, depth-sensing, power-screwdriver with hand-job attachment, but no one should have to resort to finding a large rock to bash it in with.

Or, to put it differently, more of your tools will be usable, because Blizzard will be able to safely assume the presence of a like tool.

And specs have many meaningful differences in playstyle. Where on Earth did you get the impression they didn't? Now, and going forward even moreso, since every spec can be designed self-contained. Could you elaborate there, for me?

Also, what new raid mechanics are you encountering in other MMOs? Anything really juicy you can describe?

So you decide to not play when MoP becomes out because you know theres nothing new? well i kinda get your point but they cant make it an entirely diffferent game. Its been out for seven years or so, its not a completely new MMO or anything like that

Because there is nothing new. It's the same old pig with new makeup. No new playstyles, major homogenization (every one needs a speed boost, a execute, ect...), no new mechanics. No new anything that matters.

Classes are simple. 85 levels and we have hardly any useful end game tools. Seriously the amount of abilities a class has, compared to the amount of abilities the class actively uses is pathetic.

Sounds as if you're QQ about TBC before it came out. Except for the lvl 85 part of course.

-New Talent Systems
-Pet Battles
-Pve Scenarios
-New Class
-New Race
-New Continent
-Revamp of the classes
-Change to stats again

Yeah, your right they arent changing anything.

And in your attempt to make me look like a fool, you exposed your self as an idiot.
Throughout all of those "new" things, nothing changes. The game is still the same as it has been for the past 4 or 5 years I played it.

Well, World of Warcraft will be World of Warcraft, they are not going to change the game drastically to cater a small portion of gamers, and hurt the other bigger portion that like the game how it is and don't mind how it is right now.

Blizzard does something GOOD, like adding something new like Pet battle system for instance, and you complain that it is the same game.

I would encourage you to at least try Pandaria before you make assumptions on how it is going to turn out.

I'm just going to address this one part.

02/20/2012 08:17 PMPosted by Parsky

why must every healer be able to do heal any aspect of a raid good? Why can't they have specific classes to do specific roles? If I wanna tank heal, I look to role a class that specializes in it, likewise for raid healing.

Because telling your friend the healing paladin that she can't go to the raid because you already have a tank healer IS NOT FUN. Because telling the disc priest they can't heal your guild 5-man run IS NOT FUN. Because when you have one good tank healer in your line-up and she's HAVING A BABY ON RAID NIGHT, calling the raid because none of the other healers are tank healers is NOT FUN.

A lot of what you want seems to be at odds with the current design philosophy of "bring the player, not the class." I can appreciate that not every player likes that philosophy, but it's become an intrinsic element of how this game has been designed for the last two expansions, so if you're not really satisfied with it by now I'm not sure this is the game you want to play any more.

I love when people say they have no meaningful choices available with the new talent trees, especially when I armory them and they're using the basic cookie cutter spec. Let's face it, if you don't take the proper talents in your tree, people tell you you're wrong. The only thing Blizz is doing is taking away your ability to make a wrong choice. I guess if you want to not take Howling Blast and call it a "meaningful choice", that's your business. Your ability to play competitively will be severely impacted, and you will put yourself at an insane disadvantage, but I guess that's the meaningful choice you're looking for.

For me, I'm happy they're removing the illusion of choice and actually giving us a choice. Let's be honest, those 6 talents we get to choose from are more of a choice than we've ever actually had. Most specs have 3 or so points that can go "wherever", and even then, those three points get spent in one or two talents.

As far as the healers being similar across the board, it's due to balancing. If you only have 2 tank healers available to heal your 10 man, how are you supposed to do any AoE damage-heavy fights? Alternatively, if you only have AoE healers available and you're doing a tank damage fight, what do you do? You don't want to have to bench people because their spec is incapable of healing something. It's not fun. Just like you don't want to have to sit DPS because they don't have an execute/have less burst/can't mitigate bad stuff.

Each player should be able to complete the role they've been assigned, regardless of their class/spec.

Classes are simple. 85 levels and we have hardly any useful end game tools. Seriously the amount of abilities a class has, compared to the amount of abilities the class actively uses is pathetic.

You might want to try some PvP for once.

I guess people have played it already.

Is future you too poor to afford a time machine? l2invest.


Anyway, OP, I will do my best to remain helpful, rather than condescending following this introduction. Know that this is the eleventy-first time I have responded to this exact post, written by a possibly completely different Death Knight who has also refrained from checking the last page to find his opinion parroted by no fewer than three people.

You speak of not wanting homogenization, and wanting more varied encounter design in the same post. These things are at cross-purposes.

By providing more classes/specs/roles some certain utility, it becomes increasingly viable to produce encounters that call for such a utility. As niches become 'softer' (that is, some specs/classes are better at certain functions within a role, but none incapable/detrimental), it becomes easier to "build up" the mechanics on which raiding is founded. It's clear that you know the whole thing is, in large part, an exercise in choreography with some math thrown in for flavour, but think about the more advanced choreography that can be explored when you know that every character can increase their movement speed, if only temporarily. Think of the damage models that can be explored when it is a certainty that every character has some means of avoiding/mitigating harm, and that every Healer has some means of repairing it. Consider the sorts of aoe/burst challenges that can be put forward when there's no danger of completely shutting out an entire raid group by requiring such!

If your main hope for PvE, and raiding in particular, is that more interesting mechanics be encountered, know that giving every character of an appropriate role some tool designed to suit every sort of problem faced, even if they have varying degrees of applicability, is the way to see it come to fruition. When putting a screw in, it is vital that everyone have a screwdriver. Not everyone needs the computerized, depth-sensing, power-screwdriver with hand-job attachment, but no one should have to resort to finding a large rock to bash it in with.

Or, to put it differently, more of your tools will be usable, because Blizzard will be able to safely assume the presence of a like tool.

And specs have many meaningful differences in playstyle. Where on Earth did you get the impression they didn't? Now, and going forward even moreso, since every spec can be designed self-contained. Could you elaborate there, for me?

Also, what new raid mechanics are you encountering in other MMOs? Anything really juicy you can describe?

Whether you wanted to be or not, you did a great job of sounding condescending. Apparently, your disclaimer had no effect!

And even with your lengthy reply, you seemed to miss the point of the OP... that nothing in Mists is fundamentally different. That's actually up for debate, but you didn't actually argue with his original premise.

Balance PvP around the top .5% and ban all forms of PvE Gear above the Heroic Blue Gear (346 gear this expansion) from PvP. 346 and below is allowed because people have to gear up somehow.

-New Talent Systems
-Pet Battles
-Pve Scenarios
-New Class
-New Race
-New Continent
-Revamp of the classes
-Change to stats again

Yeah, your right they arent changing anything.

And in your attempt to make me look like a fool, you exposed your self as an idiot.
Throughout all of those "new" things, nothing changes. The game is still the same as it has been for the past 4 or 5 years I played it.

Ahem.....excuse but....PLAY ANOTHER GAME THEN. They are also redoing all the classic character models too. Cry some more.

I don't think MoP will hold me in the game because the things I'm not happy with, for the most part, aren't changing. For example:

- Nothing was said about reducing travel time.
- I really disliked the idea of guild perks, but not only they are set to remain, Blizzard plans to add more guild perks.
- RNG in gearing seems prone to be increased, now that Blizzard have the LFR as a new "safety net" for players who are not lucky with normal or hard mode loot.
- Apart from a few minimal improvements, seems like Blizzard does not want to change loot distribution. I would really love to see less loot rolls.
- Blizzard does not seem to mind the fact players abuse the LFD/LFR by queuing for roles they don't have the gear or spec, by using PvP gear to get into the queues, by going AFK and expecting to be carried, etc.
- Nothing concrete said about fixing faction balance and the problem with low population realms; the most direct quote we have is a cryptic quote by a CM who hinted at some bold plan to tackle this without giving any specifics.

On the other hand, MoP does seem to me like a huge improvement over Cataclysm. It's just that I'm really tired of issues like those, and with a few games to be released this year that should address a few , or even most, of my issues - including Blizzard's own Diablo 3, with free town portals, individual loot, and no realms or factions to segregate the player base - I'm not likely to keep playing WoW.