If the DS buff reduces enemy health/damage...

90 Orc Mage
11500
...it should also reduce stats on the items obtained by the same percentage.
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90 Worgen Mage
16810
Let's hear your reasoning behind this, if you may. :)
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88 Human Warrior
15645
This is a retarded argument. No one wants to make gear that already may not be dropping for them (primarily 10-mans but 25s also experience this to a degree) even worse when it finally drops.
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90 Orc Mage
11500
Give people an incentive to turn the buff off.
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Or, they should not nerf them in the first place.
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90 Troll Hunter
11020
Oh hey Vial of Shadows finally dropped! Oh wait.....it only has 300 agility on it now and the proc sucks.
Edited by Naumu on 2/22/2012 12:57 PM PST
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90 Troll Hunter
10205
02/22/2012 12:51 PMPosted by Thecheatt
This is a retarded argument. No one wants to make gear that already may not be dropping for them (primarily 10-mans but 25s also experience this to a degree) even worse when it finally drops.


raids that want the 100% gear can turn the debuff off.

02/22/2012 12:49 PMPosted by Digerati
Let's hear your reasoning behind this, if you may. :)


it would give better gear to people as a reward for clearing more difficult content?
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90 Orc Mage
11500
Pretty soon Dragon Soul normal is going to be as braindead easy as LFR. Why should it drop better gear?
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90 Orc Mage
11500
02/22/2012 01:04 PMPosted by Griever
Or, they should not nerf them in the first place.


How would casual get their 410 content then?


Woops. I forgot about that. :P
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90 Dwarf Hunter
19700
Holy special snowflakes batman!
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90 Undead Death Knight
13565
There really should be an achievement or something for doing the heroic bosses without the buff.

I mean it doesn't really matter, you can look at the date of the achievement but it would be nice for the folks killing HSpine and such when it was soul crushingly hard.
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90 Troll Hunter
10205
There really should be an achievement or something for doing the heroic bosses without the buff.

I mean it doesn't really matter, you can look at the date of the achievement but it would be nice for the folks killing HSpine and such when it was soul crushingly hard.


super agree. even though my raid will be fully utilizing the 10% debuff, those who can get by without it should be given something, be it something pragmatic (20% chance of an extra piece of loot perhaps?) or something cosmetic (achievements are only awarded to those who clear the bosses with the debuff toggled off)

actually that last idea sounds like a perfect solution. casual guilds like mine would get to see the content, get our shinies, and then work on getting the achievements, while hardcore guilds dont have to worry about the debuff 'cheapening' their progression.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
8865
Why do you care about the quality of loot that other players get? Does it effect your own raid groups progress in anyway? Does it effect your enjoyment of the game and the challenge it presents to you personally?

Can't you just take personal pride in knowing that you can do the content without the buffs if you chose to do so? Do you need to be able to show off your superior iLvL to a bunch of strangers? Are you really that vain?

Listen I was surprised by how soon they provided the buffs, I honestly didn't think they were necessary. They are helping our guild progress though, so I'm not going to say no to them. If we want to we can always turn it off to attempt to prove to ourselves that we can handle the content without a handicap.
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90 Human Rogue
10305
02/22/2012 12:47 PMPosted by Fmya
...it should also reduce stats on the items obtained by the same percentage.


This is brilliant. It's fair, the baduals still get to see watered down versions of content, they get reward proportionate to effort... Wonderful idea. The reason is will not be implemented is because the reward would once again become proportionate to effort and apparently while this works for literally everything else in life it doesn't work for WoW (according to blizzard).
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90 Undead Death Knight
13565
02/22/2012 01:18 PMPosted by Neryssa
Killing a heroic boss with no buff on = 100% chance on 1 random ring/trinket on 10-man, and 2 on 25.


Marchok shouldn't count though.
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90 Human Rogue
10305
Why do you care about the quality of loot that other players get? Does it effect your own raid groups progress in anyway? Does it effect your enjoyment of the game and the challenge it presents to you personally?


I could ask you the same in favor of not nerfing content.

Can't you just take personal pride in knowing that you can do the content without the buffs if you chose to do so? Do you need to be able to show off your superior iLvL to a bunch of strangers? Are you really that vain?


That's got very little to do with it. It's the same argument that was made about 378s dropping from 5 mans and 384s from LFR; there's no incentive to go back and do FL. Right now there is no incentive to click the buff off what so ever. If you want to do things the right way you are rewarded with being out progressed by lesser guilds, getting a lesser quality of recruits due to slow progression and virtually ensuring that you will rank 10% lower then you should. That aint right.

Imagine for a second if the new 5 mans dropped 365 gear and LFR dropped 372s. Do you think more people would run firelands? Of course they would, there would actually be a reason to. Apply that logic to the debuff.
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