Why were Shamans not viable in firelands?

43 Night Elf Hunter
8610
I keep hearing how great Shamans are at healing in DS but in firelands they were the worst healers, im guessing its because of all the stacking in DS. The reason im asking is because im reallying enjoying my resto a lot more then i thought i would and i want to get into more raiding with him but im kinda concerned next raid teir if they are terrible again then im just stuck?

Did any of you do progressoin raiding with a resto shaman?

thanks
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90 Troll Warrior
16215
02/24/2012 09:18 AMPosted by Taqus
but im kinda concerned next raid teir if they are terrible again then im just stuck?

We don't know how the skillsets will be changing for next raid tier, so any healer could end up sucking. I'd say, just go for it.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
8455
The main QQ this whole x-pac from Resto Shaman came from 10 man players. Even in the darkest days of T11 before we got our first big Buffs I felt OK. I was at the bottom of the healing but not that far back from the top.

10 Man Shaman had legit issues with Chain Heals viability as an AoE heal when the Raid was spread. The issues were almost nonexistent for 25 man Shaman just because the number of bodies made the spell mechanics strong.

I think we're looking good for Pandas and we still don't have our level 90 Talents. We still need something to help us match Priests and Druids when the Raid is spread and there's a lot of Raid healing needed but I have faith that Blizzard knows those issues for Shaman and Pally's and will do something.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
6425
I keep hearing how great Shamans are at healing in DS but in firelands they were the worst healers, im guessing its because of all the stacking in DS. The reason im asking is because im reallying enjoying my resto a lot more then i thought i would and i want to get into more raiding with him but im kinda concerned next raid teir if they are terrible again then im just stuck?

Did any of you do progressoin raiding with a resto shaman?

thanks


In T12 in my old guild our third healer (We did Druid Pally Shaman, Shaman would DPS for 2 heal fights) was a Resto Shaman that would pull nearly even with the Druid while I barely pulled ahead of the Druid. They had problems but were viable if you knew the class well.

As said before we don't know how the next tier will be, so you should go ahead and gear him if you enjoy him. Who knows, maybe Shamans will be omgwtfop again
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85 Night Elf Druid
0
Firelands had spread phases, and shamans don't have any workable spells for spread phases, other than direct heals.
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5 Human Warlock
0
If you really want to ensure high performance, level multiple healers. I leveled a druid, priest and shaman for Cata and wound up playing both druid and priest. Now for some reason they are pressing me to play my shaman. In fact if she were geared, I'd be doing the last two bosses with her instead of my druid. We won't know who will be smacking the meters in MoP until part way through beta sometime late summer.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10945
In 10 mans, resto shamans struggled with mechanics. Holy Priests did as well.

The fact that resto druids were simply so amazing, especially in the context of a 10 man at that time, only exacerbated the issue. More or less, if you had three healers, and two of them were holy priests/resto shamans, you were often better off replacing them with one resto druid.
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85 Goblin Shaman
5885
Shaman were always "viable" in Firelands. The people who said they were not are either the >.5% of people clearing new raids with inferior gear (the 10ish guilds realistically able to compete for world firsts), or idiot slappys who have no clue what the words, "in context" means.

So in other words, unless you were tackling Heroic Firelands in nothing but t11 gear, Shaman were fine.
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90 Troll Druid
17505
...im reallying enjoying my resto a lot more then i thought i would...


This is all that really matters.
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85 Draenei Shaman
10680
Shaman were always "viable" in Firelands. The people who said they were not are either the >.5% of people clearing new raids with inferior gear (the 10ish guilds realistically able to compete for world firsts), or idiot slappys who have no clue what the words, "in context" means.

So in other words, unless you were tackling Heroic Firelands in nothing but t11 gear, Shaman were fine.


Shamans were not fine, viable yes, but not fine. There is a line to draw between these two words. Just because a boss could be killed, doesn't mean there were not major flaws and problems that should've been corrected after T11 but weren't.


----

As for the OP, if you're enjoying it stick with it as I wouldn't worry too much about T11/T12 status as that is history. Hopefully our problems get addressed in MoP ;).
Edited by Sensations on 2/24/2012 12:17 PM PST
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85 Human Paladin
6300
I think sometimes perceptions are blurred.

To be honest, resto shamans were the most useless class in Firelands. Yes, they were viable, but they were flat out terrible. Running with a resto shaman was not an option if you wanted to net a kill ASAP for ranking purposes..

That being said, I think players confuse the line between optimal and viable. Just because shamans rode the bench throughout Firelands in many hardcore guilds, doesn't mean that running with one not on the bench was wrong... It just meant that they valued the player more, they did not really care about achieving a higher ranking over friendship/loyalty, or a number of other reasons...

If you are an established raider in your guild, or run pugs simply, there is absolutely no reason to worry about class viability. If you do well, you will stand out in a pug, regardless of your class.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7910
i have healed on my holy pally since wrath, and our other healer has been a resto shaman since wrath.

it really comes down to the player, like with many other things. she is an exceptional healer in general, and had no problems pulling her weight as resto, whether progressing through normal T12 modes, or 2-healing heroic T12, or whatever.

it's easy to see that shamans are doing better in DS, but, most healing classes are.

those complaining about the healing mechanics of a resto shaman, well, every class has limitations. it's what leads to spell selection. if you select the wrong spells, then you're probably going to suck, unless you get lucky.
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85 Draenei Shaman
10680

those complaining about the healing mechanics of a resto shaman, well, every class has limitations. it's what leads to spell selection. if you select the wrong spells, then you're probably going to suck, unless you get lucky.


What are the limitations in the healing mechanics of druids and priest then in regards to shaman limitations, last I checked they can heal Stacked and spread, a long with tanks? That's a terrible argument you have there, sure limitations should exist but as long as they don't for every healer then it's unrealistic.
Edited by Sensations on 2/24/2012 2:09 PM PST
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85 Worgen Druid
4585
I keep hearing how great Shamans are at healing in DS but in firelands they were the worst healers, im guessing its because of all the stacking in DS. The reason im asking is because im reallying enjoying my resto a lot more then i thought i would and i want to get into more raiding with him but im kinda concerned next raid teir if they are terrible again then im just stuck?

Did any of you do progressoin raiding with a resto shaman?

thanks


My 10m group in T12 went 6/7H with a R Shaman. I was not available for their last 3 heroic kills, which is why I was only 3/7.
Edited by Cyberg on 2/24/2012 2:44 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Shamans just did not have the utility and throughput other classes had. I love Shamans mastery, but the numbers just didn't translate well to meters and Spirit Link is very situational (Obviously it's very awesome in DS).

Mana Tide also got nerfed so that really sucked as if you did not spec into TC then you were basically SOL if you run oom because mana tide is pretty mediocre as a mana regen cd compared to other classes.
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50 Human Priest
14170
If the shaman had another healer to play for FL instead of the shaman, they would have been much better off. This is the situation that pops up the most I think when people are thinking optimally. Not, "let's replace bill because he plays a shaman", more of, "let's have bill bring his druid". At this point "Bill" can bring the druid and it will be better off for his raid or he can keep on with the shaman and bring down the raid some but he gets to play what he wants to play and get his achievements/mounts on his main.

Its not just the top players that think optimally. The shaman performance mattered to a lot more people. Saying shaman were viable is not saying much when the other choices were excelling.

What it comes down to is not having the tools to deal with the situation. Whether it was spread raid healing or just keeping mana at an adequate level, 10m shaman had a rough time in FL compared to the other healers.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
9750
Shaman were always "viable" in Firelands. The people who said they were not are either the >.5% of people clearing new raids with inferior gear (the 10ish guilds realistically able to compete for world firsts), or idiot slappys who have no clue what the words, "in context" means.

So in other words, unless you were tackling Heroic Firelands in nothing but t11 gear, Shaman were fine.


But for the other 99.5% of guilds out there, how many 10-man guilds do you think realized that they could increase their successes merely by replacing their Shaman with ANY other healer? Or simply dropping the Shaman on 2-heal fights?

In 10-man, Shaman were "viable," but not "fine."
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85 Draenei Shaman
5945
I have raided all through firelands and now DS as resto and I have managed just fine. I'm not sure why anyone would say they were not viable in firelands when from my guilds viewpoint, they were. I have been one of the top healers in my guild next to the Holy priest since FL's. Maybe it just depends on a persons own viewpoint.
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02/24/2012 09:18 AMPosted by Taqus
Did any of you do progressoin raiding with a resto shaman?


I did not do progressing raiding with a resto shaman, but here is someone who did:

http://lifeingroup5.com/?p=2491
(Resto Shaman Lessons from Tier 12)

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