Gurthalak, proc more.

02/28/2012 10:42 AMPosted by Wooshylooshy
I've been steady World ~50th 25m division since BC across 3 toons, mainly ret. I would shut the !@#$ up if I were you.


Please post on this toon.
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85 Draenei Shaman
6810
02/28/2012 10:42 AMPosted by Wooshylooshy
3/8H I know the in's and out's of my class.


Lol'd.

Stay cool 3/8H 10% nerf.

Why do I even bother coming to these forums, it's filled with bads that think they know how to play after killing their first heroic nerfed 'progression' encounter.

I shouldn't take it so seriously, but yes I'm mad. I've been steady World ~50th 25m division since BC across 3 toons, mainly ret. I would shut the !@#$ up if I were you.


:D added to ignore. Ty blizz


Why not post on this character? What are you scared of if you are so godly good at ret?
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85 Orc Warrior
3685
02/28/2012 09:40 AMPosted by Wooshylooshy
It was nerfed for ret specifically because it proc'd off seal which it shouldn't.


That's not true, seals are (were) paladins' way of generating extra melee hits for mechanics that require them such as trinkets and weapons because not only do we swing slow but half our rotation is composed of spells. The nerf is unjustified because warriors are getting considerably more procs now and unholy dks are getting around the same number of procs but they can scale the damage off their mastery.

Blizz needed to fix the weapon instead of nerfing one spec that could use it.

02/28/2012 10:26 AMPosted by Wooshylooshy
maybe actually do progression and realize gurth isn't even BiS. Casuals.


Lol yeah...maybe you should pass this nugget of wisdom to all the top ret pallies who have and use a heroic gurth so they can laugh at you too.

02/28/2012 10:42 AMPosted by Wooshylooshy
shouldn't take it so seriously, but yes I'm mad. I've been steady World ~50th 25m division since BC across 3 toons, mainly ret. I would shut the !@#$ up if I were you.


After reading your posts and seeing the general ignorance in them about the game and ret pallies in general I'm going to call b.s. on your comments unless you can show some logs to back up your claims. Otherwise you should shut the !@#$ up.

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85 Human Paladin
5870
I was with madness of deathwing for a few weeks and I see no procs at all. Our arms warriors however, gets 10% of their damage from gurth tentacles.

This result is based on a few billion damage in total in those fights and I think they hold some statistical value. I mean its just ridiculous how my guardian of ancient kings does more damage than my tentacles combined.


Might as well call it the voice of depressing
Edited by Mækir on 2/28/2012 3:28 PM PST
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90 Human Warrior
13005
02/28/2012 12:13 AMPosted by Bralor
OK, first off, you're describing the warrior class, not paladins.

...Are you trying to imply that warrior DPS is sub-par at the moment? Because if so, I would like to disagree with you very strenuously.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13780
on ultraxion my buddy the war had 70ish ticks with his and i had 10 woots!!!
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85 Human Paladin
6940
02/28/2012 03:55 PMPosted by Muspel
OK, first off, you're describing the warrior class, not paladins.

...Are you trying to imply that warrior DPS is sub-par at the moment? Because if so, I would like to disagree with you very strenuously.


DPS? Oh hell no.

The fact that we get cool !@#$ that is then seen as OP and nerfed into the floor? Yes. Warriors are sub par in PvP because of all the changes. They would be amazing if they could sit on a target, but they can't.
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90 Tauren Paladin
11050
02/27/2012 08:17 PMPosted by Silverbolt
Because Blizzard thought ret was op having the most procs, so the best course of action was to nerf it until we had the least by far. It's pretty much the history of paladins in a nutshell - everything we get is too op at first, so it immediately gets nerfed down to sub-par levels. I don't know why anyone's surprised.


lol.....QQ more plz.....its all about RNG and DK / Warrior have the same % chance for it to proc.
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85 Human Paladin
2475
02/29/2012 05:46 AMPosted by Bizzerd
lol.....QQ more plz.....its all about RNG and DK / Warrior have the same % chance for it to proc.


It's my understanding that this is completely not the case, and that in fact, after the "tweak" made by Blizzard, Ret paladins have had their proc rate intentionally reduced. A tweak that does not impact Warriors and DKs.

It's also my understanding, based on the general lack of language and comprehension skills, that you're a bit of an idiot.

The argument being posed by many people is that they feel that too much of a reduction has been made. While many agree that a small reduction may have been warranted, the end result reflects a drastic reduction.
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90 Tauren Paladin
11050
lol.....QQ more plz.....its all about RNG and DK / Warrior have the same % chance for it to proc.


It's my understanding that this is completely not the case, and that in fact, after the "tweak" made by Blizzard, Ret paladins have had their proc rate intentionally reduced. A tweak that does not impact Warriors and DKs.

It's also my understanding, based on the general lack of language and comprehension skills, that you're a bit of an idiot.

The argument being posed by many people is that they feel that too much of a reduction has been made. While many agree that a small reduction may have been warranted, the end result reflects a drastic reduction.


Yes I know Seal of Truth can not proc it but that doesn't mean it proc's less for Pallies specifically. Now Warriors are procing it like crazy and DK's Procs scale with mastery but the proc it's self is relatively the same for all melee with the exception of warriors. Which in turn makes it's RNG.
Edited by Bizzerd on 2/29/2012 10:46 AM PST
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85 Human Paladin
2475
02/29/2012 09:19 AMPosted by Bizzerd
Yes I know Seal of Truth can not proc it but that doesn't mean it proc's less for Pallies specifically. Now Warriors are procing it like crazy and DK's Procs scale with mastery but the proc it's self is relatively the same for all melee with the exception of warriors. Which in turn makes it's RNG.


Alright.. so if what you're saying is true, then "best case scenario" and "worst case scenario" should be about the same for each class, with everything averaging out in the end. Such is the definition of RNG.

So.. with a quick saunter over to World of Logs, lets look at "best case scenario" between the classes. We'll use DS10N, and go with Warlord Zon'ozz since each class should have comparable uptime.

Let's pick a warrior first. To compare apples to apples, lets try and get something in the last week or two.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Dragon_Soul/Warlord_Zon%27ozz/10N/Fury_Warrior/

How about Synch at #5. 1,344,129 Tentacle damage.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-jby1805950869658/sum/damageDone/?s=2744&e=2934#Synch

When we look at the details:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-jby1805950869658/details/28/?s=2744&e=2934

We see a total of 40 ticks, and 18 tick crits.


Now lets pick a similar DK:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Dragon_Soul/Warlord_Zon%27ozz/10N/Unholy_Death_Knight/

Edgecrusher is recent, sitting at #7. 2,251,027 Tentacle damage.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-eu83qhh7vukun7wq/sum/damageDone/?s=5919&e=6128#Edgecrusher

Looking at the details for his Tentacle damage over the fight:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-eu83qhh7vukun7wq/details/28/?s=5919&e=6128

60 Ticks, 17 Crits.


Bring on the Ret pallies:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Dragon_Soul/Warlord_Zon%27ozz/10N/Retribution_Paladin/

Now to find a recent pally parse... Oh wait.. there really isn't anything recent near the top (Nothing english at any rate, and those that aren't English don't look like they're using Gurth). I wonder why that is. Have to go all the way down to #54 to find a pally that's even ranked with Gurth in the last week or so.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ggwpafvrh6pcs3kp/sum/damageDone/?s=2987&e=3184#Trenholm

Now for the good stuff! 971,819 Tentacle damage.

Digging further:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-6ngjjvgwwoffyc73/details/52/?s=7614&e=7811

Hrmm.. 21 Ticks, 6 Crits.

Disclaimer: I didn't see another pally above 54 that was recorded in the last week or so that used Gurth. If you do go through the list and see one (that wasn't from before the changes were made), please post it. I'll eat my keyboard if you find one that doesn't support the numbers I'm putting on the table.

Now keep in mind that we're looking at the "best case scenario" here. You have to have RNG in your favour to even make it on the list. With such a discrepancy in the best possible results, it's easy to see why paladins are complaining.

Out of curiousity, what logs were you looking at?
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85 Tauren Druid
1420
Cylarus and Kangarooster can I has your babies?????

Anyway not much more can be said that they haven't said already. But I got to say this I think it can be agreed that the change itself should have been changing the way seal of truth works with the gurth instead of taking it out completely. That change would have brought out more of a satisfactory responses then this. Then the proc rates would truly be on RNG, but this currently is proc rate with number of melee attacks and Ret doesn't stand on par with warriors and Death Knights on that front.

The only thing more irritating is these forums post happen every time a new Ret pally gets the sword. We should just sticky this and keep it on top for future reference.
Edited by Camulós on 2/29/2012 11:32 AM PST
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90 Tauren Paladin
11050
I randomly choose Ultrax 10N and took the Top Pally / DK / Warrior from these logs. Yes I understand DK's Mastery scales with the proc and Warriors Proc can gain the Crit% they stack and Pallies have nothing, but Ive been talking about Proc in general not DPS.

All 3 are relatively on par with each other.

Pally
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/hw992mvenvjnv1bg/sum/damageDone/?s=8686&e=8873

88Ticks 22Crit

Warrior
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/8txcodgx33097njs/sum/damageDone/?s=4475&e=4722#Crunchycooki

16 Ticks 9 Crits

DK
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-g553n2bmmafay6bb/sum/damageDone/?s=5472&e=5631

36Ticks 7 Crits



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85 Tauren Druid
1420
I randomly choose Ultrax 10N and took the Top Pally / DK / Warrior from these logs. Yes I understand DK's Mastery scales with the proc and Warriors Proc can gain the Crit% they stack and Pallies have nothing, but Ive been talking about Proc in general not DPS.

All 3 are relatively on par with each other.

Pally
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/hw992mvenvjnv1bg/sum/damageDone/?s=8686&e=8873

88Ticks 22Crit

Warrior
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/8txcodgx33097njs/sum/damageDone/?s=4475&e=4722#Crunchycooki

16 Ticks 9 Crits

DK
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-g553n2bmmafay6bb/sum/damageDone/?s=5472&e=5631

36Ticks 7 Crits



you took a random selection cylarus took ranked so anyone can get your results if you do it randomly. If you guys really want to start posting logs then post more then 1 person. get a group of ranked people top 100 melee using gurth (normal not heroic) if you have to or whatever and then compare the procs. Better results and its not just oh look at this guy and this guy or that guy.

Also you just posting logs doesn't prove much either unless its a bigger pool of people. You are not backing up what you want to say. The people have been giving sound and reasonable explanations.

Also last thing you are forgetting something, many people have posted how the tentacles do not attack ultra because they are to close or they bug. Cylarus used a typical boss such as Zon'ozz which there have been no issues with any procs not attacking.
Edited by Camulós on 2/29/2012 1:40 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
17495
02/29/2012 05:46 AMPosted by Bizzerd
Because Blizzard thought ret was op having the most procs, so the best course of action was to nerf it until we had the least by far. It's pretty much the history of paladins in a nutshell - everything we get is too op at first, so it immediately gets nerfed down to sub-par levels. I don't know why anyone's surprised.


lol.....QQ more plz.....its all about RNG and DK / Warrior have the same % chance for it to proc.


Half of pallies' attacks are spells, and most pallies don't stack haste so we're getting far less melee hits in, whereas all warrior abilities are physical attacks that can proc the sword. DK's stack haste, not mention the reduced GCD on unholy presence...the end result is that the proc rate may be the same for all the classes, but warriors and DK's get more procs by far because they're hitting with physical attacks more often. Funny how that works.

What's also funny is how stupid you look now.
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90 Human Paladin
18040
I randomly choose Ultrax 10N and took the Top Pally / DK / Warrior from these logs. Yes I understand DK's Mastery scales with the proc and Warriors Proc can gain the Crit% they stack and Pallies have nothing, but Ive been talking about Proc in general not DPS.

All 3 are relatively on par with each other.

Pally
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/hw992mvenvjnv1bg/sum/damageDone/?s=8686&e=8873

88Ticks 22Crit

Warrior
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/8txcodgx33097njs/sum/damageDone/?s=4475&e=4722#Crunchycooki

16 Ticks 9 Crits

DK
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-g553n2bmmafay6bb/sum/damageDone/?s=5472&e=5631

36Ticks 7 Crits


Did you happen to notice that the Paladin one was pre-nerf?
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85 Human Paladin
1295
Not sure if its been tweaked again but i got more procs lately and double tentacles bout every 2 or so minutes. Love this weapon.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7275
02/27/2012 08:07 PMPosted by Providentia
You weren't facing north while attacking.

Pfft, silly man.
Don't listen to him, it's south by south-east.


i thought it was westish east?
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