Blackthorn (lootship) 10M normal help

100 Blood Elf Rogue
7330
Hi guys.... we are a casual guild and we started DS a few weeks back and now we are stuck on the lootship boss... I was wondering if people could help us out, esp. guilds in similar situations as we are not exactly decked out in gear.

Problem:
Our problem is we can't even get to the boss, the adds stop us. For the most part, we get the first wave and first sappers down. Then its chaos after that as we got to kill drakes in the first wave, kill the 2nd wave melees, and the 2nd sapper while soaking the big spots on ground. We even tried ignoring the little patches the mob creates but we wipe every time as the ship blows up when the third wave comes (1 2nd wave mob still up).

Raid Composition:
I done this on a pug sucessfully, but they had almost all ranged dps. Ours is a bit melee heavy... our composition is 2 tanks (1 druid, 1 pally), 2-3 heals (druid,pally, priest who can off-spec shadow), and 5 dps-- 2 ranged (hunters- one is marks the other is BM) and 3 melee (rogue, warrior, enh. shaman). Most of us are 385+ ilvl (our highest is 395 and lowest is 385).

couple of thoughts:
one thought is that I am not sure if we are geared enough? My thoughts are its extremely hard to dps the melee mobs while soaking as melee and our group is melee heavy. also the drakes go down slow.

Any other guilds out there in similar situations that have done this fight successfully? would really appreciate any tips.

Thanks in advance
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100 Blood Elf Warrior
12700
If your raid is gearing at 385-ish for everyone, you should be more than geared enough for blackhorn.

We do it with a melee heavy group too, and the one thing we have to do to ensure the ship doesn't explode is have the tanks try to soak the little blasts as well, or failing that, try to move towards them.

If at all possible, try to have your tanks group the two elites together as well, allowing cleaves and other multi-target abilities to hit, speeding the process up.

Otherwise, it's just getting used to the fight.
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90 Orc Shaman
17940
Have you tried having your melee switch from the tanked adds to a drake when they land? They have to be standing right underneath the add to hit it, but once they're close enough they can melee it no problem. Your tanks can bring the other two adds in for cleavage too.

Are your hunters dpsing the drakes a little bit while they fly overhead? With a ranged heavy group, you can get them below half with DoTs (Shadowpriests are amazing at this fight), but every little bit counts. Also, survival is the hunter spec of the day. The beast mastery hunter gives you 3% raid damage, but I don't know if it's worth it. Have they tried and discarded 4.3.2 SV?

Try having your melee and tanks to starboard and your healers (priest should go shadow) and hunters to port, with the paladin tank near the middle with a sapper target&stun macro. Melee burst down the starboard drake when it lands (it lands first, so it should get a little help from ranged) and your 3 ranged ought to be able to kill the other one by focusing it hard.

In my group, we use personal cooldowns on the second set that land, and bloodlust on the third set, to keep either from taking off.
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
16800
On the hunter end, check your buffs and debuffs, make sure you're covering as much as possible. From the looks of things, your druid has the 5% crit buff going, so that rules out the wolf and devilsaurs; your warrior offers the STR/AGI buff, which rules out cats and spirit beasts; your MM hunter is probably granting the group TSA, while the BM is giving ferocious inspiration.

The Cataclysm Pet Flowchart is excellent for this.

Also, your MM hunter should be able to have Rapid Fire/Readiness up every 3 minutes, which is good for a drake phase. Same goes for Bestial Wrath (every 90s). Don't go halfsies on this, focus them down one at a time.

When we do Blackhorn, the hardest thing to deal with are the sappers. (I don't know why.) We know where they're coming from, but the vanish tends to stymie most people. What I like to do is lay down an Ice Trap, Flare, and Explosive Trap in their path to slow them down and force them out of stealth. Your BM can use Intimidation at this point, either hunter can use concussive shot.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12090
I'll make this really simple: Kill stuff faster.

This doesn't look like a DPS race, but it is. Winning the fight is all about laying down enough DPS on the elites and the drakes to take them down before something bad happens. Do what you can to crank up your DPS. Everything else is secondary. Doing what you can usually involves getting better gear, but it also helps to reduce target switching and movement, to cover all buffs, etc. For instance, tank the elites in the middle of the boat so you don't have to run as far for the Barrage.

Stop the sappers, and burn the drakes fast enough, and you won't have to worry about the ship blowing up, even if you ignore the small circles.

You can tell you're doing it right if you never get three elites and never get three drakes at once. It can still be beaten if that happens, but it's much harder.

Seriously, I've been in raids with low DPS, and raids with high DPS, and the difference on this fight is amazing. In a low DPS raid, this fight is a nightmare. In a high DPS raid, it's yawningly easy.
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The big thing with the "lootship" is that it is in no way a lootship, aside from madness, this is the only boss i have to spend the MOST attention span on. The little sappers that come on board, if you can get a guild DK tank or DK Dps, they are for once viable with death grip, the sappers do roughly 450k dmg to the ship, which is about how much a big dragon blast does with only 1 person soaking it(dying of course). and the sad thing is, is people don't think of it as a dps race, if dps was high enough on a mob-to-mob kind of deal, you wouldn't even have to think twice about the drakes or the mobs on deck. Sadly, most people see this fight as being much like "lootship" from wrath so their span on the idea isn't exactly "sub-par" with the actual intelligence and attentiveness. One day blizz will give everyone a +30% HP buff +30% dmg buff and a +30% Heal/Absorption buff so this raid will become just as big of a joke as reg ICC became.
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85 Human Paladin
11570
it's commonly adviced for 10mans to pop heroism on second set of adds. the boss himself isn't ... that big of a deal, but add overlap sure is. if you nuke add set #2, you fix the overlap.

the ship itself...it can take quite a beating but not sapper-level of beating. so plan when you want some damage to go through. I'd do soaking during adds 1 and 3 and maybe let swirls, big and small during add set #2 go through?

also dont call it "lootship". it's...still a bossfight afterall. unlike its ICC cousin.
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90 Goblin Mage
14915
"Lootship" is the Gunship Battle in Icecrown Citadel. It was called lootship because it was so easy that it was essentially free loot. The Warmaster Blackhorn fight is not a lootship.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14475
Kill the drakes first. They cause the Barrages. Dead drakes = fewer barrages = ship doesn't die.

If your DPS can't clear two drakes and two melee adds before the next wave lands, tell them to stop sucking (or perhaps, on your next raid night, run a training night instead to help everyone improve their toon. Sounds silly but it can work and save time in the long run!)

If you have cleave melee in your group make sure the tanks are stacking the melee adds (and preferably also stacking them on drakes). If your tanks are doing it properly then your melee will all read 25K on phase 1.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14475
02/22/2012 12:46 AMPosted by Robokapp
it's commonly adviced for 10mans to pop heroism on second set of adds. the boss himself isn't ... that big of a deal, but add overlap sure is. if you nuke add set #2, you fix the overlap.


I think it should be saved for Goriona, especially with only 2 ranged. The phase with void zones, shockwaves, and ranged looking the opposit way to boss, can be chaotic if the group is uncoordinated (which seems likely if they are having trouble on P1)

also: 2heal, and just organize cooldowns for the end of the fight so that you can chain with someone always having at least one up. (tanks/healers)
Edited by Lusignan on 2/22/2012 12:55 PM PST
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100 Worgen Mage
18975
Use your Time Warp on the second wave of adds, a few seconds after the drakes are reeled in. It's what we do in Heroic to not fall behind. You won't really need it as much in P2.

Edit: It looks like this was suggested elsewhere in this thread too. Cool beans.
Edited by Digerati on 2/22/2012 1:04 PM PST
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90 Troll Shaman
12580
02/22/2012 03:48 AMPosted by Keeblik
"Lootship" is the Gunship Battle in Icecrown Citadel. It was called lootship because it was so easy that it was essentially free loot. The Warmaster Blackhorn fight is not a lootship.
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85 Night Elf Druid
1630
if your really looking to progress, both your hunters should respec to surv, or at least the bm should, its not that viable with the damage and the rotation for them is pretty easy, also 2 healing it with your priest going shadow will give you 3 range 3 melee which would make it easier to manage the adds
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100 Draenei Paladin
13495
We were in the same boat as you for a while(*crickets*) and some things that helped us were having only two healers and using raid wide CD's intelligently. Meaning using spirit link on the forst big swirl and then tranq on the second then raid wall on the third. some sort of rotaion like that. You'll obviously have to change it to your comp but those are the CDs that popped into my head.

Another thing we did was we assigned a leader for the melee and ranged groups, each leader would mark the current add they were burning. having 2-3 dps on the melee adds and 3-4 dps on the drakes worked best for us but our best geared dps are melee so that may be different for you.

For the little swirls we split the boat into quadrants with 1 healer and 1 ranged near the door while melee and tanks split the front of the boat(near where Thrall and the dragon aspects hang out) this setup was so that melee would be able to have the most time on the sappers as possible. If all your melee dps is on the first melee add it should die about 15 second before the second wave of melee adds drop. Your tank who doesn't have a melee add should be able to soak a ton of the little swirls alone during that time. While he's tanking it gets a little trickier though.

For the sappers it REALLY depends on your comp. we have a rogue and DK so if the dk can't DG the sapper to the group during an eruption or whatever then the rogue shadowsteps the add as soon as the damage goes out and stun locks it while the other dps get on the sapper. again this works for us but your comp will dictate what you have to work with. Your pallies should remember that they are stunnable and if its useful enough they can grab improved hammer of justice and stun every sapper. this will help because you should be able to kill the sapper in less than 8 seconds so once its stunned it won't move any further.

The last tricky part we ran into was the blade rush from each melee add. This is the main reason that we burned melee adds and held the dragons. If you have more than 1-2 up at a time the blade rushes start to become much harder to heal through assuming people don't avoid the damage. Its also good to note that the blade rush hits its target and anone in the line so clear out as soon as it pops and make sure you clear WAY out because the efect is always larger than the animation.

Hope this helps.
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100 Troll Hunter
12280
02/22/2012 12:52 PMPosted by Lusignan
fewer barrages = ship doesn't die.


If your ship dies on normal 10 man, you have some serious issues to work out.
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85 Undead Priest
6130
1) melee can hit the drakes when they're harpooned, so melee heavy isn't as much of a limitation as it might seem at first.

2) If you kill drakes first you don't have to worry much about the barrages, but you do have to worry about debuff stacks on the tanks.

3) The boss doesn't spawn until the last drake dies... or if he does, he waits quite a while. If you have extra boat health, leave 1 drake alive as long as you need to in order to clean up elites, let debuffs drop and let healers regen mana.

If you tank the elites on one side of the boat, all the way near the edge... right next to the harpoon, then you can assign melee to the drake on that side and ranged to the drake on the other side. a melee heavy 5DPS setup would have 2 ranged on one drake and 2 melee on the other drake with one melee staying on the elites full time (cleave melee or the melee that will lose the most DPS by target switching.)

If you can avoid the charges from the elites, it's much easier to handle the add phase with 2 healers / 6 DPS. This can make Phase 2 rougher if you're not well geared, but if you can't get there to begin with... If people are taking charges though, that won't last long. Note that melee need to get out of the way too. Not just whoever is targeted.
Edited by Concillian on 2/22/2012 4:50 PM PST
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100 Night Elf Druid
16525
02/21/2012 06:59 PMPosted by Bladephyre
(1 2nd wave mob still up)


That's a problem, are you focusing the adds down one at a time or is DPS split between them?
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
7330
thanks for all the replys. I'll tell our raid leader to give it a shot this week.
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88 Human Warrior
15645
I think it should be saved for Goriona, especially with only 2 ranged. The phase with void zones, shockwaves, and ranged looking the opposit way to boss, can be chaotic if the group is uncoordinated (which seems likely if they are having trouble on P1)


In all cases, both normal and Heroic, the cannons will be doing the vast majority of the damage to Goriona before she leaves/lands. Having 1-2 more ranged on 10-man speeds up her flying off by *maybe* 5-10 seconds at most (and hardly speeds up landing at all on Heroic).
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