WoW Training Grounds. Youll never be the same

85 Human Paladin
8105
I approve.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
7475
02/29/2012 12:39 PMPosted by Daxxarri
The WoW training grounds is a max-level training ground with scripted training for each class and each of their specs.


We've discussed a similar idea in the past, and it might be possible to use the technology we're using to build out the Scenarios coming in Mists to make something like this happen at some point in the future. Maybe!

It would be cool.

This whole "training" used to be covered during the initial levelling with quests that required groups and frequent trips to dungeons that required more than using 10% of the abilities provided in the game where failing to complete even a dungeon was a real possibility.

Keeping your position in a raid group also made it necessary to continue to work on your abilities and to keep current on class abilities and changes. Working with guild mates practicing against world mobs or group ambush techniques in battlegrounds. I used to spend time with my tank in vanilla practicing pulls aggro transfer before tanking became a run in and button mash. Practicing Trap/FD/Trap sequences before trapping became a skill that could be used in combat, etc.

The most training I ever got was the Hunter Demon quest and actually doing it as intended, completely solo. I spent hours practicing kiting, line of sight, stings, using terrain, min/maxing gear for the task (using Shaman gear for the Winterspring demon for eg), and how buffs and debuffs work. This took time a planning to complete, patience, etc but at the completion I felt like it was a real accomplishment. Of course most hunters found the exploits to complete this but that was their loss.

There really is no training required now besides learning a shot rotation and how not to stand in the fire.

Now, I can blitz a character up to max level without breaking a sweat, I can complete an LFR raid from start to finish in one night with the bare minimum of gear without a fatality. Easier if I go with 3 or 4 guild members, it is almost like we can carry a 25 person raid with little or no effort.

I miss the required teamwork of the past. I especially miss the challenges of the past, including some of the repetitive grinds to get something special such as the original Winterspring Frostsaber quests where even on a high population server there might only be five there and those people all knew each other cause we worked together to complete it (I did this with 4 other people that were in different guilds). In fact people I used to play with for hours have generally left the game due to the lack of camaraderie and working as a group in the new Azeroth order.
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90 Orc Death Knight
12750
I support this Idea
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
12610
02/29/2012 01:46 PMPosted by Ardastarsong
Training grounds will not work in the same way tutorial levels in games do not work.


Brilliant idea, OP. As far as it not working, if you made it fun - offered an achievement(s), vanity item, etc. many would go for it. With account wide achievements you could add in for those who complete the training grounds for each role. Much like the expected hardmodes coming, you could have the TGs on timers so essentially you could compete against yourself.

If executed well, this could be a great deal of fun and learning in one giant bundle.


Offering rewards for completing a tutorial inherently defeats the purpose of the tutorial.

You do not learn anything with the reward/incentive in place. The learning should be the incentive. Offering the carrot on a stick only serves as a means for people to post Youtube videos and Wowhead comments on the best ways to earn the carrot on a stick rather than the best way to play your class.

As a result, the scripted event that is supposed to teach the player a PvE raid rotation (some classes have priority systems which require thought rather than pressing butans in order) instead becomes a butan pres pattern puzzle and thereby does not teach the player how to think about the priority system but rather how to press 1 2 3 1 2 3 to defeat the script. When it comes time to defeat a different script, say a boss encounter, 123123 doesn't work anymore and the player learned nothing but has his achievement.

Incentives are failures. Behavioral economics knows this to be true in the actual business world model. Why would it be different in a video game?
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85 Human Paladin
9180
I was actually considering making a post like this not but a few days ago. This game relies too heavily on outside sources to teach players how to play their class properly. Many encounters rely on you being able to pull max DPS to get through it, and I dislike the idea of players having to rely on outside sources in order to beat encounters.
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85 Human Warrior
3960
dont respond with what youve been thinking about doing, blue posters.

JUST GREENLIGHT EXACTLY WHAT THE OP SAID.
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90 Night Elf Druid
0
Agreed.
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This would be really amazing. I think I could benefit from it, and I don't think I'm a bad player.

However, there's one big downside:
If there's only a single, set way of ever doing anything, only one item/glyph/spell rotation/whathaveyou that always works, then why are you even playing? Wouldn't a robot do better?

Are you familiar with Raids at all?

Yes, though that's only one aspect of the game. And lets face it: things almost never go exactly as you're supposed to. Even in raids, its more important to understand your class and abilities, and when its good to use them, so you can change stragedy to try to save raids when something goes wrong.

Also, useful in general.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
18850
02/29/2012 12:39 PMPosted by Daxxarri
The WoW training grounds is a max-level training ground with scripted training for each class and each of their specs.


We've discussed a similar idea in the past, and it might be possible to use the technology we're using to build out the Scenarios coming in Mists to make something like this happen at some point in the future. Maybe!

It would be cool.


Translation

"Crap... I can't tell them EXACTLY what we're doing, maybe I could ... wait! That's it! I'll make it like we 'might' be doing this! Yes!"

*Posts*
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90 Gnome Warlock
21015
I'm blinded by the sheer brilliance of this idea!
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85 Worgen Druid
13420
I like this idea. With different difficulties, one can add in specific situations, such as light movement out of danger, interrupts, timing of cooldowns, etc.

Easy could be a fight similar to Patchwerk - just maintain high dps for "x" minutes. It could advance all the way to a "Hell" difficulty (shameless steal from D2), with a fight similar in movement and target swapping to LK.

Just for nolstalgia purposes, I would love to see older bosses being brought back - so people can experience a taste of what was needed in previous expansions.

Edit: This almost has the feel of a 1v1 pve duel (to some extent). I guess the current arena maps + ToC/Gurubashi/Dire Maul arenas would work.
Edited by Aredyl on 2/29/2012 2:15 PM PST
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37 Draenei Paladin
2285
Good idea.

Your training score could factor into LFD or LFR queues to help appropriately match players to content.

Or say, completion of these training grounds can count a certain level toward your ilvl, so you can play content base on skill in order to build up your sets.
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90 Troll Druid
7320
This is a great idea, 100% like, good post
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85 Draenei Shaman
11185
100% on board. Just the fact we would be able to DPS check with full buffs/debuff would be a god send.

Roll this into cross realm dungeons (ie. make the training center a "dungeon") and you can make it so guilds can "work out" potential candidates.
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85 Dwarf Hunter
6795
Take it a step further.

Get rid of item level requirements for entering a dungeon/raid.

Require completion of a certain "difficulty" setting of the training grounds to become eligible to enter as the spec you choose. So if you can complete the criteria in greens, then you can queue for a raid. If you can't complete it in epics... then you need to try harder.
Edited by Mcgruffin on 2/29/2012 2:37 PM PST
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90 Worgen Mage
8565
Each difficulty will take you through 10-15 different tests, beginning with simple assignments such as a basic rotation to your spells, all the way up to staying out of fire, dodging falling objects, while still attempting to kill a series of npcs on a timer.


NO.

Absolutely not. I have underlined what I disagree with.

I do not intend to sit for an "examination" every time I level a new toon. Want to do this? YOU PAY ME for my time, as it is what you suggest can take at least two hour or more.

Fifteen separate tests? I would not sit still for this even for a job, mate. In my profession in the real world? YOU would not last three minutes to meet my level of competence and training in my field. Or pass the stringent compliance and legal requirements to be able to even sit down and pick up a phone.

If I have 5 alts I will be asked to do this five times, one for each toon? Ten times? Every time I level a toon?

Not a chance in hell.

This is not a job.

This is not you employing me.(and if you want to know what I am paid per hour/ per year come ask me)

I do not "sit for tests" to play a game.

Ever.
Edited by Zhenogre on 2/29/2012 2:52 PM PST
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90 Worgen Rogue
10795
02/27/2012 07:11 PMPosted by Shorthealed
No one wants to read Elitist Jerks... and new players have no idea it exists. And lets face it, reading is no where as good as experiencing.


My only issue is how concise and direct the explanations are in those guides. I could fight a boss over and over and try a number of different methods, and while I could figure out that some were more successful and some less, I would still have no idea about stat weights and priorities.

There isn't really any encounter that's going to explain to a druid tank to prioritize dodge, or for a frost DK to avoid crit. Either Blizzard straight out says it, or we find it in a guide.

02/29/2012 02:47 PMPosted by Zhenogre
I do not "sit for tests" to play a game.


I don't enjoy wasting my time because players don't have a flippin' clue what they're doing.
Edited by Sneakygreek on 2/29/2012 2:53 PM PST
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51 Night Elf Warrior
300
Training grounds cannot train a healer to heal. There is way too many variables.

Did a DPS not move in time?
Did the tank time his CD wrong?
Did the other healer blow their CD's to save the tank?
Did a DPS blow their CD's and start DPS'ing before the tank pulls?

In fight #!, 3 of the DPS took a million damage.

In fight #2 they took 2 million.

In fight #3 they took 500k.

In each fight you would heal them differently.


This training ground would teach dps and the tank how to do these things that you are talking about. The healers aren't carrying the group after all.
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90 Worgen Mage
8565
This training ground would teach dps and the tank how to do these things that you are talking about. The healers aren't carrying the group after all.


I do not need, "training" thank you, already have two melee dps and one caster dps toon at max level, and already know what to do, and when to do it.

I do not sit "fifteen mandatory training tests" to do a dungeon.
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90 Worgen Mage
8565
I don't enjoy wasting my time because players don't have a flippin' clue what they're doing.


Unlike you, I have all my glyphs in place.

Practise what thou preachest.
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