WoW Training Grounds. Youll never be the same

85 Night Elf Druid
4905
The WoW training grounds is a max-level training ground with scripted training for each class and each of their specs.

Players at max level (cause lets face it, you can just button smash your way pre-max-level) will be able to visit the training grounds in any major city to enter an arena with a trainer.

With 5 different difficulties (Easy, Normal, Hard, Hardcore, Master) players will be tested in an arena against scripted NPCs.

Each difficulty will take you through 10-15 different tests, beginning with simple assignments such as a basic rotation to your spells, all the way up to staying out of fire, dodging falling objects, while still attempting to kill a series of npcs on a timer.

DPS would be put through enrage timer tests, where only after executing a rotation to a raid standard would grant victory.

Healers would be put through a benediction style test, at first simply healing an npc taking some minor damage from a dot, all the way up to keeping 4 other people alive while staying out of fire and dodging falling objects.

With my understand that tanks are being adjusted to be more like DKs, tanks would be put through survival tests.. being forced to use abilities (such as Death Strike) at the proper times to stay alive long enough to finish the event.

Awarding achievements, transmog gear, mounts and pets as rewards would be enough incentive for players to want to experience the content, and give new players a way to learn their characters.

Let's be honest with ourselves... learning while leveling doesn't work. You button smash and win.. and if you die, oh well, get back to your body, keep smashing and you'll win that time. It only matters when your max level and the encounters are difficult... Players have no idea how to play their class, and have no way of learning...

No one wants to read Elitist Jerks... and new players have no idea it exists. And lets face it, reading is no where as good as experiencing.

It's time blizzard develop the WoW training grounds.. this would work... and scripting events as such wouldn't be so bad... you are talking about 30 specs, with most events being simple tasks. First 3-6 stages would be just an NPC standing there while players went from learning what each spell does to how to use in a rotation... so the amount of encounters (while still a lot) would not be a crazy amount that isn't doable.

Dooo it! :)


i like the ideas.




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85 Draenei Shaman
0
I like this idea for dps as well as the possibility of tanks (I am mostly out of my element on tanking, only running a druid tank through last x-pac), but as a healer there are a few variables that work against this model.

Healers would be put through a benediction style test, at first simply healing an npc taking some minor damage from a dot, all the way up to keeping 4 other people alive while staying out of fire and dodging falling objects.


Coming in late so forgive if this has been covered. I did not read through all post pages. With that said...

Would Blizzard be able to implement a way for me to use my healing addon for these situations? I have not free hand healed in years. I've used Healbot the first two after moving to heals, and Vuhdo for the last several not to mention Grid/ Clique for many others. (Hitting on the ones I know are highly used, there are many more addons available for healing.)

Would this require a complete rework of my current usable resources? Would I be creating an entire set of mouseover macros in order to complete? If so, this would require an immense amount of work. I'm no slouch when it comes to heals, but an entire rotation/ situational rework requires a lot of time and effort. This would not be beneficial to a new player if you take away the out of game resources that many of the veteran players are using and recommending, and vice versa, how would a veteran player adjust after years of use of player created addons?

Relying on outside resources has been a part of the game for some time now. The great thing about WoW is its ability to use it's player base to create any range of addons for an class. Is this a "go back to the roots and use in game only" or is this something available to utilize the blood and sweat put into outside lua coding that has been accessible for some time?
Edited by Zoja on 2/29/2012 11:48 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
12610

Which is why, as I suggested a few posts back, it should be mandatory but have useful rewards for all players, so they don't feel like their time is wasted.


And i've stated before your post that incentives are failures. Behavioral economics knows this.

Incentivizing the suddenly mandatory training scripts doesn't cause people to suddenly learn their class or roles. It simply causes people to narrow their view and learn the specific training script. That's nice and all but completely defeats the purpose of having a training ground in the first place.

You've essentially turned it into a solo attunement quest with dust and essences as the quest reward rather than a class role training ground. No one ended up learning anything because the fastest and easiest way is to figure out 123123123 is the order to press your buttons to finish the script for training boss 1. Unfortunately, unless every raid and dungeon boss shares the exact same abilities and timers as training boss 1, the butan pres pattern that we've successfully taught everyone doesn't do anything.

To be able to teach someone how to play requires someone to think and be willing to accept the fact that they need to be taught. If all it took was to hand out dust and essences, why don't you just give people essences to read Elitist Jerks right now? What's preventing this from happening? Is there some massive difference?

The lack of an incentivized in game training grounds isn't what prevents people from learning. Dunning-Kruger does. There is a wealth of resources available for people to learn. Some people are just immune to learning.
Edited by Alleyne on 3/1/2012 12:24 AM PST
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85 Blood Elf Priest
7430
I'm happy to hear that mostly everyone is on board with this idea.. I hope we can keep this thread constructive.

From the sounds of it, Blizzard looks interested in the idea, and with scenarios being added in MoP as Blizzard said, this doesn't seem as farfetched as it once would have been.
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85 Dwarf Hunter
6795

Which is why, as I suggested a few posts back, it should be mandatory but have useful rewards for all players, so they don't feel like their time is wasted.


And i've stated before your post that incentives are failures. Behavioral economics knows this.

Incentivizing the suddenly mandatory training scripts doesn't cause people to suddenly learn their class or roles. It simply causes people to narrow their view and learn the specific training script. That's nice and all but completely defeats the purpose of having a training ground in the first place.

You've essentially turned it into a solo attunement quest with dust and essences as the quest reward rather than a class role training ground. No one ended up learning anything because the fastest and easiest way is to figure out 123123123 is the order to press your buttons to finish the script for training boss 1. Unfortunately, unless every raid and dungeon boss shares the exact same abilities and timers as training boss 1, the butan pres pattern that we've successfully taught everyone doesn't do anything.

To be able to teach someone how to play requires someone to think and be willing to accept the fact that they need to be taught. If all it took was to hand out dust and essences, why don't you just give people essences to read Elitist Jerks right now? What's preventing this from happening? Is there some massive difference?

The lack of an incentivized in game training grounds isn't what prevents people from learning. Dunning-Kruger does. There is a wealth of resources available for people to learn. Some people are just immune to learning.


Because for one, nobody is giving people anything to "go and read EJ". Further, some people learn a lot better with hands-on training instead of reading an explanation.

Will it fix all people? Of course not. Some people will just flop their way through it, and go back to their old habits immediately after.

But I believe that there will be enough people who actually take some valuable knowledge away from it that it becomes a worthwhile system.
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85 Human Priest
5330
I love this idea so much! Though, I don't agree that they be mandatory as some have mentioned most of us who have been playing for a significant amount of time already know most class abilities via experiencing them in PVP or seeing them in PVE. Perhaps a better idea would be once the character hits 15 their trainer offers a quest to go into the Training Ground. Perhaps a reward for completing all levels in honor points or through the quest I mentioned above.

For healers I do agree it will be difficult. Though, healers' training grounds could be more geared toward stat explanation, spell usage explanations rather than than amount healed, for example needing to cleanse NPC's, explanations on CD usage and scenario's where certain spells or cd's shine, sustaining mana while keeping group alive in varying damage for varying amounts of time eventually leading up to high damage burst healing for shorter periods or periods of low damage healing for longer amounts of time.
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13 Worgen Druid
40
making it mandatory will cause the same hemorrhaging of accounts that occurred at the end game of vanilla
people don't like artificial "tasks" that are annoying and just slow down progression
there is a reason we don't see attunements and keys to see further content, it is an archaic model from games like EQ
It was used to slow people down so content wasn't blown through, and also so uberguilds could waggle their e-peens in people's faces


Training grounds would be solo. Doable at the player's discretion. Not even nearly as bad as attunements were.

Also, a player that is already good enough to do the content would spend all of 5 minutes beating the training ground, and then be free to queue to his heart's content.

And a player that is not actually good enough to enter queues is better held out of the queues until he improves - and I believe everyone who has ever had to carry an horrible player will agree. It's not as if bad players were simply kept out of the game - instead, they would be given a tool to train and evaluate if they are good enough, and be cleared to queue with everyone else as soon as they were actually ready to pull their weight.
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90 Gnome Warlock
7610
02/27/2012 07:23 PMPosted by Shorthealed
Or how to move, stop cast, etc? You don't.


He said he uses it for testing, not that he's mentally disabled.
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85 Troll Mage
11970
02/29/2012 09:44 PMPosted by Zhenogre
1. Your arcane spec is less than ideal. I can't fathom why you would bother to put more than three points (Piercing Ice) into frost, and why you don't have two points in Master of Elements and three in Burning Soul.


Check the EJ arcane build and then mine. They are identical. Go argue with them.


Actually, the recommended EJ build is 33/5/3 with the fire/frost talents being burning soul, master of elements, and piercing ice.

Shatter(Frost Talent): There are 0 raid bosses that I can think of in Cataclysm that can be frozen, therefore that talent is useless for an arcane mage (the only benefit being a mage w/ fingers of frost which is a deep frost talent).

Improved Fireblast(Fire Talent): As an arcane mage you should not be casting fire blast. If you have to move you should be using Arcane Barrage. If you have to move for more than 1-2 GCDs, you should be blinking. If for some reason you can't, the only time you'd want to use fire blast is if you don't have presence of mind available for arcane blast.

Improved Polymorph(Deep arcane): There are 0 bosses that you can polymorph. If your poly target is broken it is stunned, this offers no dps benefit.

You can find their recommended spec at: http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t118084-cataclysm_arcane_mage_compendium/#Talent_Specs

The points in imp blink are situational, and depending on whether or not you will be AoE'ing may find more benefit in imp. arcane explosion instead.

3. Your gems need work. You should NEVER gem for hit unless not doing so would keep you from at least meeting the hit cap (17%)


Which is how I met hit cap.

And I'm not sure where you got the idea that you should never gem pure anything, because that's patently false. The only time you should ever consider a hybrid gem is if the socket bonus would give you more intellect than going with a pure gem (i.e. the socket bonus is +20 intellect or more, or +30 or more if you're going to be rocking the epic gems).


Check the Noxxic categories. Gems especially.


Actually, it's not as simple as "if it's a blue socket put a purple gem in it." You have to look at the bonus and see if it outweighs the loss of intellect. For example, in your gloves you have a +20 int/20 hit gem, with a socket of +10 intellect. Since you are currently 39 points over the hit rating, you gain 0 value from the 20 hit, and lose 10 intellect by not having a red gem.
Edited by Nihilo on 3/1/2012 2:03 PM PST
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I support this! Great Idea.
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90 Worgen Warrior
10020
02/27/2012 07:13 PMPosted by Zentrox
I SUPPORT THIS 100%


And with an actual blue response, it even might come true!
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85 Night Elf Druid
6080
two thumbs up.
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85 Night Elf Priest
7265
Blizz, this idea no matter who it originated from should be implemented as soon as possible. Just think of it from this exemplary point-of-view:

The more people that are proficient in whichever role they so choose means considerably less overly-judgmental players berating them for their lack of skill. People will get along much more than at this moment, which in turn causes the community to be better even if by a minute amount and more *drumroll* people will be more inclined to actually RENEW THEIR SUBSCRIPTION DUE TO ACTUALLY HAVING FUN!
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35 Night Elf Hunter
11150
The WoW training grounds is a max-level training ground with scripted training for each class and each of their specs.

Players at max level (cause lets face it, you can just button smash your way pre-max-level) will be able to visit the training grounds in any major city to enter an arena with a trainer.

With 5 different difficulties (Easy, Normal, Hard, Hardcore, Master) players will be tested in an arena against scripted NPCs.

Each difficulty will take you through 10-15 different tests, beginning with simple assignments such as a basic rotation to your spells, all the way up to staying out of fire, dodging falling objects, while still attempting to kill a series of npcs on a timer.

DPS would be put through enrage timer tests, where only after executing a rotation to a raid standard would grant victory.

Healers would be put through a benediction style test, at first simply healing an npc taking some minor damage from a dot, all the way up to keeping 4 other people alive while staying out of fire and dodging falling objects.

With my understand that tanks are being adjusted to be more like DKs, tanks would be put through survival tests.. being forced to use abilities (such as Death Strike) at the proper times to stay alive long enough to finish the event.

Awarding achievements, transmog gear, mounts and pets as rewards would be enough incentive for players to want to experience the content, and give new players a way to learn their characters.

Let's be honest with ourselves... learning while leveling doesn't work. You button smash and win.. and if you die, oh well, get back to your body, keep smashing and you'll win that time. It only matters when your max level and the encounters are difficult... Players have no idea how to play their class, and have no way of learning...

No one wants to read Elitist Jerks... and new players have no idea it exists. And lets face it, reading is no where as good as experiencing.

It's time blizzard develop the WoW training grounds.. this would work... and scripting events as such wouldn't be so bad... you are talking about 30 specs, with most events being simple tasks. First 3-6 stages would be just an NPC standing there while players went from learning what each spell does to how to use in a rotation... so the amount of encounters (while still a lot) would not be a crazy amount that isn't doable.

Dooo it! :)


Awesome post. I gave you a thumbs up.

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90 Undead Rogue
9775
I SUPPORT THIS 100.99256%
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