World of Warcraft™

Thrall cared more about helping than Horde than destroying the Alliance and Garrosh cares more about destroying the Alliance than helping the Horde.

True/false?

Garrosh doesn't see them as different things.

02/19/2012 09:52 AMPosted by Mutterscrawl

Garrosh doesn't see them as different things.

This is correct.

We just dont know enough about Garrosh to say what he is or is not about. We have snippets of conversation whiney one liners accusing Thrall of being a coward. Yet the flip side is we never see Garrosh out and about banging heads together.

Twilight highlands was the perfect time to let him shine, yet his imcompetent bungling led to the fleet being decimated, he was no where to be seen until after the port was already secured then he took a portal back to Orgrimmar rather than pressing an attack.

Heck instead of a random player beats old dragonmaw leader a warchief vs warchief deathmatch woulda been way more epic... imagine the dragonmaw warchief calling in black dragons to attack Garrosh, yet in the end Garrosh triumphs and rescues the player.

Blizz just hasn't run with the character like they said they would.

Thrall had a fairly steady personality and a rather united group of writers behind him.

Garrosh is written by several different cliques of autistic 12 year olds who all want to sell him as a very different character, and as such any proverbial legs he had to stand on have been turned to mush by the idiocy of Blizzard's writing department and the people they outsource too.

It's noteworthy that I'm talking about 'old school' Thrall. Not the terrible ooze-pile that he's become in Cata via Metzen riding him to get his super-hero fantasy complex satisfied.

I actually liked what they did with Garrosh in Stonetalon.

Garrosh for all his arogance, pride and bluster truely loves the horde. Id say at least as much as Thrall. The horde embodies a rebirth and a second chance for his race. He grew up seeing the shattered remains of what the orcs once were. Org represents a new hope for him and he is extremely protective of it.

I think part of the reason he sees destroying the Alliance as important is he feels that the dominance of the Horde is neccesary for securing the future of the horde. I dont think he sees peaceful coexistance with the Alliance as possible.

The real question I wonder about is if he would swallow his pride for the sake of saving the horde. Dying for the horde isnt a big ask for Garrosh, but Garrosh's pride is very important to him as in centeral to his nature. If he was willing to except shame for the sake of the Horde it would mean more about his character than if he died for the Horde.

02/19/2012 09:52 AMPosted by Mutterscrawl

Garrosh doesn't see them as different things.

As is often the case: ding ding ding! We have a winner with master Skytotem.

The truth is, Thrall cared, but most of the time he gave a blind eye to the skirmishes and frictions between both factions. Also to soem of the biggest problems within his city.

And, Garrosh, even for his d-bag attitude, he cared enough to charnge drastically the city and their environment. I really liked thrall's mentality as warchief, i reckon he cant be anywhere and control everything... but the changes Garrosh brought to the orcs and orgrimmar are quite visible and obvious, and in the end that's what matter for the average OrcJoe (and why he has too much support from orcs).

I remember those quests in Stonetalon Mountains, there is one in specific who makes you listen on how since Garrosh started as Warchief, Orgrimmar has a much better lifestyle than with Thrall.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:We're_Here_to_Do_One_Thing,_Maybe_Two...

Gone are the days of our people starving in the streets of Orgrimmar as we sign treaties with elves.

I think there are more who explains all that, but cant remember more.

I actually liked what they did with Garrosh in Stonetalon.

I don't, because it's hypocritical at best, schizophrenic at worst, considering his armies are doing worse things than Kromgar did all across both continents, and his ultimate supposed plan of conquering all of Azeroth for the Horde would mean all Alliance races become slaves, live as second class citizens, and/or die slowly of starvation and poverty on the outskirts of Horde-controlled cities -- meaning Kromgar's quick, clean death via bomb might actually be a blessing.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that some of the directions didn't have potential.

But when you have a character trying to develipe in 6 different opposite directions, even if the developement is Shakespearen in how perfectly executed and profound it is, the character is going to be piss-poor.

As such the issue is only magnified by an immense magnitude by the fact that Blizzard's writing ability is less Shakespearen material, and more 6th grade creative writing elective trash.

+1 internets to you good sir

It wasn't Garrosh saying "Oh hey, we should spruce the place up!", it was more him saying "Well, we gotta rebuild from scrach.. Might as well do it the way I want!"

A point that was never really touched on in game, is that its all Northrend styled armor and materials that don't exist in Kalimdor... kind of a subtle these are the spoils of war from the Northrend campaign.

At least I remember reading some where that was the intent.

Thrall had a fairly steady personality and a rather united group of writers behind him.

Garrosh is written by several different cliques of autistic 12 year olds who all want to sell him as a very different character, and as such any proverbial legs he had to stand on have been turned to mush by the idiocy of Blizzard's writing department and the people they outsource too.

It's noteworthy that I'm talking about 'old school' Thrall. Not the terrible ooze-pile that he's become in Cata via Metzen riding him to get his super-hero fantasy complex satisfied.

I feel its worth noting, as Nyorloth pointed out, apparently the Quest Designers and Story Development team do -not- collaborate on the in-game quests. From that perspective, given short stories and novels, Garrosh's portrayal is more or less as a tactically sound individual who does get carried away in doing what he feels is best for the Horde.

The quest content in game contradicts this by portraying him as a pea-brain who makes remarkably simple mistakes in his desire to win daddy's affection by being a warmonger.

02/20/2012 06:07 PMPosted by Jaelara

I don't, because it's hypocritical at best, schizophrenic at worst, considering his armies are doing worse things than Kromgar did all across both continents, and his ultimate supposed plan of conquering all of Azeroth for the Horde would mean all Alliance races become slaves, live as second class citizens, and/or die slowly of starvation and poverty on the outskirts of Horde-controlled cities -- meaning Kromgar's quick, clean death via bomb might actually be a blessing.

Where are they doing worse things?

The Rageroar? Given.

But he's trying to crack down on the Forsaken, more than Thrall ever did.

At the very least he's less hypocritical / schizophrenic than Thrall's nonsense regarding "peacetime" Warsong in ashenvale.

Garrosh is better in bed.

I don't, because it's hypocritical at best, schizophrenic at worst, considering his armies are doing worse things than Kromgar did all across both continents, and his ultimate supposed plan of conquering all of Azeroth for the Horde would mean all Alliance races become slaves, live as second class citizens, and/or die slowly of starvation and poverty on the outskirts of Horde-controlled cities -- meaning Kromgar's quick, clean death via bomb might actually be a blessing.

Where are they doing worse things?

The Rageroar? Given.

But he's trying to crack down on the Forsaken, more than Thrall ever did.

At the very least he's less hypocritical / schizophrenic than Thrall's nonsense regarding "peacetime" Warsong in ashenvale.

If he was "trying to crack down on the Forsaken," We wouldn't have use of the plague in Gilneas and Southshore and the fact that he continues to allow Sylvanas to raise undead drudges. Unless, of course, the difference is that Sylvanas has more power. Poor Kromgar. He just didn't have an army of mind-control undead slaves behind him. That was his failing. I mean, hell, at least Thrall just pretended he didn't notice. Garrosh notices, but he's totally honorable about it because he shoots a quasi-misogynistic insult and a couple threats at her before looking the other way while she literally reduces alliance settlements to toxic goo. I mean, hell, at least Hillsbarad and Southshore were INTACT during Thrall's reign.

In addition, The Civilian Villages (Being defended by the Sentinels doesn't make it non-Civilian, or the Druid School would count as a military target too) of Ashenvale are under bombardment, and the Shatterspear tribe, ostensibly under Garrosh's command, were attempting to wipe out the remaining villages of Darkshore.

He has also, in Twilight Highlands, allied with a clan that enslaves sentient beings AND is constantly harassing the civilian villages of the Wildhammer dwarves such that it is proving difficult to impossible for them to rebuild.

I just really, really do not get why the Druid School is magically "dishonorable," but every other target of Garrosh's, as well as his plan to conquer all of Azeroth, which, again, will practically by definition involve enslaving, destroying, or starving most other non-Horde nations and peoples, is magically honorable and okey-dokey.

Garrosh cares about the Horde.

You know, the Orc and Tauren part. The Trolls are untrustworthy and weak, The Goblins are only good for their inventions and as servants like Peons, the Forsaken are a blight that are only a part of the Horde out of necessity, and The Blood Elves are only there because they rather have elf servants than them rejoining the Alliance and helping them fight the Horde.

Imo sometimes the difference between combatant and non combatant in the Warcraft Universe is exaggerated. These towns being attacked, astranaar, camp t, etc., are on the front lines and are legitimate targets with a war going on. Now I'm not saying there aren't more preferable ways to wage war, but it looks odd when I see "attacking X was completely justified but you attacking Y was immoral and you guys systematically defile their mass graves" when in reality they are similar.