World of Warcraft™

Alright, so I was kicked from my guild tonight while I wasn't online, which I found odd considering that I was still in the guild a few hours ago.

Btw, it isn't on this toon/server/guild. Just posting on an alt.

I found out that I supposedly got kicked because I didn't attend a raid I never even guaranteed for a fact that I'd go. At least that's what I was told when I asked one of my guildies what happened. Tried to see if the GM was online so I could speak with him but he was offline, and an officer told me he'd be online tomorrow.

So you'll probably want to know my backstory.

One of the guild officers (who is also the GM's wife) asked me earlier in the day if I'd like to attend a Heroic Ultraxion kill and clear the rest of DS on normal. I told her probably not, since I have friends who come over every Monday to watch wrestling with me, and I told her that if plans change (e.g, my friends don't come over), then yeah, I'd be more than happy to go.

My position in the guild is Casual. I did raid with one of the main raiding teams for a time, but because my stepdad was diagnosed with diverculitis, I asked if I could be demoted from the raid team, since I'd probably need to attend to him at any given moment, due to the severity of it that he's facing.

So I log off maybe 1-2 hours before wrestling starts, friends come over, we watch till it's over at around 10:15pm my time (CST), friends leave, I log back into WoW to practice my Unholy spec on the dummies and I notice I was gkicked. I thought it was a joke for a second since officers like to gkick all in good fun and we get re-invited, etc. Switch to my shaman, and I was kicked on that toon as well. That's when I thought "Ok, wtf is going on?"

GM isn't on, so I asked one of the guild members I have on RealID, and she said that the GM kicked me because I wasn't on for the raid (same raid his wife asked if I'd like to go). Mind you, she also said I didn't have to go, she was just trying to get the last dps spot filled and asked various people.

Here's the thing. I never said yes I'll go definitely, or guaranteed I'd be there. I said I'd only be there if my friends didn't come over.

I sent him an in-game mail clarifying the situation, so I'm waiting for his response. At the same time though, I'm upset because imo, I felt I was wrongfully kicked and I'm not sure what to do.

Provided all of this clears up and I get re-invited, a part of me kind of lost some of that trust I had with the guild and I'm not sure if I'd want to re-join.

So I'm asking here if you guys feel whether I was wrongfully kicked, or if the GM was right in kicking me.

my 2nd question is if provided the situation clears up, should I accept a re-invite if I get it, or move on to another guild? Like I said, I felt like I lost a bit of trust, and it bites me considering I left my old server of 3 years to a new server and guild where I have no friends.

So basically you declined the raid invite because your friends were coming over but left it open that if they didn't come over, then you would be available. Is that correct?

Seeing as you were no longer on the raid team, your GM was pretty quick to gkick you. Was there more going on?

So basically you declined the raid invite because your friends were coming over but left it open that if they didn't come over, then you would be available. Is that correct?

Seeing as you were no longer on the raid team, your GM was pretty quick to gkick you. Was there more going on?

To my knowledge, no. I'm assuming there was a misunderstanding and the GM thought I said I was going to attend.

I do recall this one time when one of our new recruits at the time was scheduled to attend one of our raids and the GM noticed he wasn't on and was about to gkick him but people in the guild were pointing out that the recruit posted earlier in the day he might've not been able to attend that night because he was having computer problems on his own PC.

It just irks me that I was kicked without at least being asked "Hey, why didn't you attend?" and rightfully clarify the situation, but this is reminiscent of a "shoot first, ask questions later" type of thing.

I am a former GM myself, and while I know different GMs have different rules, at the very least, I believe it would've been reasonable to at least question why wasn't I there and as I said, I'd clarify what I said.

I believe that they were wrong in gkicking you, and if i was in your spot, i wouldn't wanna go back. There's always that chance that they will end up doing it again. I would just find a new guild if i were you.

It sounds like the GM was wrong in kicking you. I would not want to go back if he's done the same to others. A player who doesn't show up (without warning - which doesn't even apply to you, as you notified an Officer) should be benched, not Gkicked.

02/21/2012 10:39 AMPosted by Tagmonkey

Putting "tentative" on the calendar or saying "maybe" is infinitely worse than declining/saying no.

^^ is so much more true than we could possibly express here.

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I think your GL was probably hasty in removing you from the guild and could very well have misunderstood your intentions. He could have been in a bad mood and over reacted...several things that are unknown to us could have contributed to what happened.

I definitely would try to talk to him and work out this misunderstanding if you honestly enjoy the guild. If I'm totally honest, my personality would force me to talk to him even if I hated the guild from "WTF" factor alone.

In the future, try to either say "Yes, I can be there" or "No, I cannot be there" and leave it at that. The "well, maybe if my friends don't show up I can come" leaves the team hanging and wondering whether you will show or if they should look for someone to fill.

If you're friends don't show and you said "No, I cannot be there" from the start a simple solution is to log in and say "Hey, I can make if after all if you still need me". Much simpler and easier to avoid trouble with a straight Yes or No.

I say just leave and forget about it. That kind of thing is BS.

02/21/2012 11:00 AMPosted by Ozgarski

I say just leave and forget about it. That kind of thing is BS.

I have to agree. The trust factor is gone now. Move on, the grass is greener!

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if there was a misunderstanding or miscommunication. No matter how clear you felt you were, you have no clue how your statement was received on the other end. And you have no clue how it was transmitted to or received by your GM.

Best advice I can give you is: keep a calm head, don't take it personally. Approach it as, "hi gm, I was wondering why I was kicked" "oh, for not attending the raid? I'm sorry but I thought I had made it clear that I couldn't commit. Is there something else going on? No, well since it seems there was a misunderstanding can I get re-instated?"


Keep a few things in mind:
1. it wasn't personal (that has to be your initial approach when you are still in the dark)
2. the gm's wife is involved. No matter what in-game mechanics are involved, you are dealing with a husband and wife, too
3. It wasn't personal (sorry, but I cna't emphasize this enough. If you approach it was a personal affront to you, that will come across and the conversation will go nowhere, so since you don't know for a fact that it was personal, assume it wasn't until you find out otherwise)

Hey, "tentative" is NOT the kiss of death.

In our Guild:
Confirmed = will be there 15 minutes prior to start ready to rock.
Tentative = I want top be there tonight, but real life may prevent me
Declined = real life hates me, I can't be there, good luck!

This easy system usually gives us a solid team and a couple of back ups. So far, it works great.

And no, the GM's wife waaaaay overstepped bounds. Sounds like she needs to take a few classes on communications . . . .

02/21/2012 10:39 AMPosted by Tagmonkey

Putting "tentative" on the calendar or saying "maybe" is infinitely worse than declining/saying no.

It wasn't a calendar thing. I was whispered on the spot.

I think your GL was probably hasty in removing you from the guild and could very well have misunderstood your intentions. He could have been in a bad mood and over reacted...several things that are unknown to us could have contributed to what happened.

I definitely would try to talk to him and work out this misunderstanding if you honestly enjoy the guild. If I'm totally honest, my personality would force me to talk to him even if I hated the guild from "WTF" factor alone.

In the future, try to either say "Yes, I can be there" or "No, I cannot be there" and leave it at that. The "well, maybe if my friends don't show up I can come" leaves the team hanging and wondering whether you will show or if they should look for someone to fill.

If you're friends don't show and you said "No, I cannot be there" from the start a simple solution is to log in and say "Hey, I can make if after all if you still need me". Much simpler and easier to avoid trouble with a straight Yes or No.

Fair enough. I'll take note for future reference.

Definitely talk with the GL if you can. That really does sound like either something else is going on or like he misunderstood.

Whether you want to go back or not is up to you, though, as Malorei said, I'd want to know regardless. Personally, if the guild is the kind of guild that gkicks you for no-showing ONCE, I wouldn't want to be there. That may just be me. But you're listed (or you were listed) as Casual, you didn't give a definite "Yes I Will Be There" and then back out, and this GL seems awfully quick to kick. I don't think it's a trust issue so much as "this GL is a mite kick-happy".

Definitely talk with the GL if you can. That really does sound like either something else is going on or like he misunderstood.

Whether you want to go back or not is up to you, though, as Malorei said, I'd want to know regardless. Personally, if the guild is the kind of guild that gkicks you for no-showing ONCE, I wouldn't want to be there. That may just be me. But you're listed (or you were listed) as Casual, you didn't give a definite "Yes I Will Be There" and then back out, and this GL seems awfully quick to kick. I don't think it's a trust issue so much as "this GL is a mite kick-happy".

A bit of an update.

I spoke with the guild officer that recruited me into the guild. Well ex-officer. She recently stepped down.

She wasn't able to do anything since she stepped down (wasn't aware till I brought this up earlier today about me getting kicked) and she believes that the GM might've taken out his anger on me by g kicking me. He was pissed that she stepped down (due to rl reasons) and I guess when he saw I wasn't at the raid after the convo I had with his wife regarding whether I'd be able to go or not, and g kicked me to take it out on me.

Imo, !#%@ move and very immature.

You only need to know one thing. While a GM may do this, no good GM will do this. It's contrary to all good sense.

I've kicked a few people in the guild where I am GM but I tell them why. It's been for nerd rage or begging every single time, not for not making a raid.

My guild has one rule (Level 25, 430 members, about 50 active accounts where folks log in regularly): "Don't be a jerk." You weren't being a jerk but the GM sure was.

If you just remember this rule, everything else done in a guild will follow the rule or break it. If you always follow it, you'll look for a guild where the other folks do too.

I'm with the masses on this, no matter what ask and find out what happened, but yeah this sounds like a pretty petty gkick and unless you have a real solid connection to this guild I would turn down any invite back and look for a new home.

Don't do anything drastic, don't pull a "Jerry McGuire" and make a big scene just move on and hope your next home has a leader who has their head on straight.

Maybe isn't yes. If the other person took it as such then that is their mistake. He said maybe, but he should have said no right off the bat. If someone says maybe then I take it as a no and fill that spot with someone else. You can't plan on a maybe.

I think the kick was unfair. He never said he would be there so punishing him for this is ridiculous.

Though if I were the OP, I would ask for an explanation, but not go back to the guild. That is evidence of how the GM will act in the future.

You only need to know one thing. While a GM may do this, no good GM will do this. It's contrary to all good sense.

I've kicked a few people in the guild where I am GM but I tell them why. It's been for nerd rage or begging every single time, not for not making a raid.

My guild has one rule (Level 25, 430 members, about 50 active accounts where folks log in regularly): "Don't be a jerk." You weren't being a jerk but the GM sure was.

If you just remember this rule, everything else done in a guild will follow the rule or break it. If you always follow it, you'll look for a guild where the other folks do too.

Your guild doesn't look like much of a raiding guild (I mean no offense). The OP's guild sounds like they take raiding somewhat seriously as they've passed that easy 1/8 H bump and they're likely enforcing attendance more strictly.

There's nothing worse than running with a strict, set roster and having one person who can't make a raid night and then having the replacement flake as well.

I'm with your GM. If anyone, especially a Casual, gave me a "maybe" or what I took to be a "yes" and didn't show then they would be gone, no questions asked.

Then at the very least, the GM should've explained to me from the get go regarding tentative attendance. I saw nowhere in the forum, nor was I told the consequence of it.

The guild has usually 50+ members online per night usually, and this was the weekend team, not even the main raiding team, or not even the other 2 weekday raiding teams.

I see where you're coming from, but like I said, the GM could've explained attendance rules regarding tentative since I saw nothing of it. Being part of a raid team at the time before being demoted, no !@#$, I knew I was required to attend. I'd attend every single raid up until I asked to be demoted due to rl stuff. If I knew the reality of saying "Maybe" and it would be assume that I'd go unless otherwise (which was in reverse, I wouldn't go unless plans changed, then I'd log on and go like "yeah, I can attend), then I'd just say no right off the bat.

As I said, I'm noting this down for future reference, so I appreciate the constructive criticism.