Do I need to change rotation on CLCret addon

85 Human Paladin
4230
I've noticed that the standard CLCret addon rotation is different than the rotation on elitist jerks.

Do we need to change rotation on CLCret FCFS addon or do we just keep the one that comes with the addon?

CLCRET Rotation: inqa inqrhp tvhp cs inqrdp tvdp exoud how exo j hw cons


Elitist jerks: inqa inqrhp cs how exo tvhp inqrdp tvdp exoud j hw cons
(Inq > CS > HoW > Exo > TV > J > HW > Cons
Inq > CS > TV > HoW > Exo > J > HW > Cons)
Edited by Benevor on 2/29/2012 9:02 AM PST
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85 Human Paladin
3670
There's an addon that plays ret for you now?









Abomination.
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85 Human Paladin
4230
Yeah
You just sit back and watch the show. Don't even have to touch the mouse.


Not.
I have it and still suck (or so I've been told).
;-)
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85 Human Paladin
10650
If you have an addon telling you what abilities to use, you are wrong. Learn to play the class yourself, experiment on the dummies with different rotations and gear sets, or switch toons. Quit giving us that do good DPS a bad name.

Sincerely,
Retribution Paladins Everywhere.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16315
There's an addon that plays ret for you now?









Abomination.


It's no different than Shock and Awe for Enh Shaman and Zombie for Unholy DK. Sure there's others as well.

They're great addons for the new player to learn the basics of the specs, especially the more complicated ones to initially learn like Enh and Unholy, and have the training wheels on a bit. The creators state that you shouldn't rely on the priority since reaction time to the priority box will cost you DPS though. There's no substitute for skill, a brain, and intuition, but it does ingrain the general priority in your head faster than elitistjerks spreadsheets and charts for many, especially newer players.
Edited by Bullettime on 2/29/2012 1:38 PM PST
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There's an addon that plays ret for you now?

Abomination.


It's no different than Shock and Awe for Enh Shaman and Zombie for Unholy DK. Sure there's others as well.

They're great addons for the new player to learn the basics of the specs, especially the more complicated ones to initially learn like Enh and Unholy, and have the training wheels on a bit. The creators state that you shouldn't rely on the priority since reaction time to the priority box will cost you DPS though. There's no substitute for skill, a brain, and intuition, but it does ingrain the general priority in your head faster than elitistjerks spreadsheets and charts for many, especially newer players.


Well said. Only time I ever used one was when I was raiding on my friends enh shaman for him in Ruby Sanctum last xpac, and I would have been completely baffled without it.
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90 Human Paladin
10930
If you have an addon telling you what abilities to use, you are wrong. Learn to play the class yourself, experiment on the dummies with different rotations and gear sets, or switch toons. Quit giving us that do good DPS a bad name.

Sincerely,
Retribution Paladins Everywhere.


You're not specced into Blazing Light and you're calling HIM out for giving dps a bad name? Rotations take some practice to getting used to, but how do you mess up something as easy as following a cookiecutter spec?
Edited by Sliphe on 2/29/2012 2:11 PM PST
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100 Goblin Warlock
17375
There's an addon that plays ret for you now?









Abomination.


It's no different than Shock and Awe for Enh Shaman and Zombie for Unholy DK. Sure there's others as well.

They're great addons for the new player to learn the basics of the specs, especially the more complicated ones to initially learn like Enh and Unholy, and have the training wheels on a bit. The creators state that you shouldn't rely on the priority since reaction time to the priority box will cost you DPS though. There's no substitute for skill, a brain, and intuition, but it does ingrain the general priority in your head faster than elitistjerks spreadsheets and charts for many, especially newer players.


If someone needs a priority box for UH...... I don't even ...... No just no. UH is POSSIBLY simpler to play than even arcane for a skilled arcane. Granted a bad UH versus a bad arcane the arcane is easier and brings more dps, but for the same player UH is really just completely dumbed down. The only thing I don't like that possibly can screw me up with UH is the tier bonus for 2 Sudden Doom because the internal proc reminder doesn't show that you got the although my eye catches the buff still there.

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85 Human Paladin
10650
02/29/2012 02:03 PMPosted by Sliphe
You're not specced into Blazing Light and you're calling HIM out for giving dps a bad name? Rotations take some practice to getting used to, but how do you mess up something as easy as following a cookiecutter spec?


Occasionally I do arenas with a fellow guild member. Selfless healer seems to help us out more than the occasional Art of War proc I get in 2s.

Also, since we're on the topic of "cookie-cutter spec," that's exactly why it's called cookie-cutter. You cut out what you don't like and modify it for your own personal use. It's why the talent tree exists like it does, so not everyone has to play exactly the same, you can play to your strengths.
Edited by Berelyte on 3/1/2012 1:08 AM PST
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90 Worgen Rogue
18095
I thought it was called cookie cutter because it was all the same. As in, all DPS specs are pretty much the same, outside of floating points(which almost don't count because some floaters are better than others). Of course, that's PvE.

PvP wise, there are still cookie cutter specs but as you mention, you play your strengths. As with rogues, if you say, run double DPS in 2s, you want points in Imp Recuperate. If you run healer/rogue then you can move those points into Puncturing Wounds.


But hey, Ret paladins. Those guys are pretty cool, right?
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
16005
I don't get why people are bashing CLC ret. It's an amazing addon. I'm logged in my prot gear, but my prot gear is better than my ret gear, and I pull pretty competent DPS with my ret gear, and I do 25 man GDKPs weekly with this toon. I don't top the meters because we have a few people that carry, but I've played with a couple other rets that outgear me and I consistently find myself competing or even outdpsing them.

Is it possible to pull more DPS if you don't blindly follow the addon? Yeah, I'm sure you can. But you also don't need to blindly follow this addon when you use it. I go against it periodically and I have had fantastic results with it because of that. Especially when I'm out of melee range, and it's telling me to CS. I'll judge to catch up, or exo if I can't judge. I'll Holy wrath during regenerative bloods because of spellcleave, and I'll use DS instead of CS when it's appropriate.

If you're pushing heroic content/progression you probably shouldn't mindlessly follow any addon period. While it's akin to making a cast sequence button and smashing it hoping to achieve amazing DPS using an addon like CLC ret is not nearly as bad. For people who play ret as an alt, do normal content, or even get heroics through nerfs...yeah, it's an amazing addon.

The only real problem it has this tier is with the T13 2 piece and the fact that the HoPo takes about 1-1.5 seconds to register. I just grabbed the two piece last week, and used it for the first time in LFR and noticed I was CSing a few times at 3 HoPo because of it.

03/01/2012 01:08 AMPosted by Berelyte
Also, since we're on the topic of "cookie-cutter spec," that's exactly why it's called cookie-cutter. You cut out what you don't like and modify it for your own personal use. It's why the talent tree exists like it does, so not everyone has to play exactly the same, you can play to your strengths.


Oh man you couldn't be more wrong. A cookie-cutter spec means there's no/little variety. That's why they're revamping trees (again) in MoP. Because Blizzard doesn't want players to fall into cookie-cutter specs. It's mostly dominant in DPS because...well DPS is math. Healing/Tank tends to be slightly more lenient, but every spec basically has a skeleton/cookie-cutter spec that you must use followed by like 1-3 floater talents.
Edited by Bubblenrun on 3/1/2012 8:13 AM PST
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100 Human Paladin
19020
I find it's useful for periods where you need to focus your attention elsewhere than your action bars; there's only so much "muscle memory" can do for a spec with so many clashing and incongruous cooldowns. That's the real reason why CLC exists. Ret "rotation?" No such thing. I mean, I'm sure you could map it out for a given period of time, like calculating Pi to the nth decimal place, but I'm not really sure why you would want to.

That said, its only real shortcomings are Judgement lag (where's the "predict that Judgement will generate HP" option? Has one for Crusader Strike...) and the lack of a built-in timer for Inquisition. And if I'm being especially nitpicky, it ought to have a toggle-able AoE mode... somehow. Those who knock it probably haven't tried the advanced configurations, or used it with the obsolete default priority settings, or are just hipsters who think they could beat Deep Blue at chess.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13990
Here we go again with this useless debate.

CLCRet is amazing to track holy power, inquision and art of war procs, if you enjoy nerfing yourselves, then play without it.

If you don't like it, then you should maybe uninstall DBM and learn how to do the fights yourself?
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
10790
Do you have 2pc T13? If so...

Normal: inqa inqrhp cs jhp inqrdp exoud tvdp exo tvhp how hw cons

Zeal: inqa inqrhp cs inqrdp tv exoud exo how

If no 2pc T13 then...(I think, its been awhile)

Normal: inqa inqrhp cs inqrdp exoud tvdp exo tvhp how j hw cons

Zeal: inqa inqrhp cs inqrdp tv exoud exo how j
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90 Draenei Paladin
11665


Occasionally I do arenas with a fellow guild member. Selfless healer seems to help us out more than the occasional Art of War proc I get in 2s.

Also, since we're on the topic of "cookie-cutter spec," that's exactly why it's called cookie-cutter. You cut out what you don't like and modify it for your own personal use. It's why the talent tree exists like it does, so not everyone has to play exactly the same, you can play to your strengths.


Regardless of how useful selfless healer is in PvP, giving out advice on DPS in PvE while using a PvP spec because it's "More useful in one aspect of the game" -Is- rather silly. Although I wouldn't bash you for it, just say to make sure to fix up a PvE spec for ret if possible instead of using Selfless healer =P

As for Cookie Cutter specs, they don't work that way. A cookie cutter spec is something that everyone uses that gives the same result. For PvE there are specific talents that are required to get the best DPS and they are the "Cookie Cutter" for the spec. You may have 3-4 talents to play around with in the end depending on the spec, but that is what everyone uses and it comes out the same, just like real cookie cutters. You don't look at it and pick and choose then say it's a cookie cutter build =/
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85 Human Paladin
3670
I only need DoTimer for all the classes I play (and I guess Grid for healers). These don't really add anything to the default UI, Blizz saw that these addons were so common (nearly mandatory) that they integrated them...but their versions are still lame and placed in inconvenient locations.

I don't feel like I'm nerfing myself by not using a "training wheels" addon. People tried to say the same thing about Healbot, you don't need that crap.

There was a time when you could research your class and fully understand your rotation/priority system, and it would give you a distinct advantage over those that didn't. Addons like these blur that line big time. You talk about it helping new players, but it's only helping them be lazy. They had 85 levels to learn the basics, a quick skim of elitistjerks.com and a little time on the dummy is all it takes.

I mean really, Blizz put all this effort into making Ret more complex and engaging. Isn't that what everyone wanted? Why dumb it down to the WoW version of Simon Says?

I maintain it's an abomination.
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90 Troll Shaman
12580
03/02/2012 10:20 AMPosted by Necralia
Addons like these blur that line big time. You talk about it helping new players, but it's only helping them be lazy. They had 85 levels to learn the basics, a quick skim of elitistjerks.com and a little time on the dummy is all it takes.


You really enjoy checking to see if you're at 3 HoPo for your TV?

You really enjoy checking to see if CS is off CD when you have DP proc, and then checking to see if what HoPo you have to decide which action you should take?

I'm not saying CLC ret is the end all be all, but it's a great addon. Does a 8/8H pally use it? No, there are other addons, or ways to create a great UI that doesn't tell you how to play, and you have to work harder with it, but probably for better results. The reality is that if the addon plays mindlessly for you, and you can't think outside the box without it, then if the addon didn't exist they'd still be a terrible player. And anyone who follows the addon as a "simon says" addon is doing it wrong. You don't need to use it as an absolute. That is your issue, not ours.

You'd have some validity if you raided. But you don't. So saying you can play consistently without one is meaningless. Congratulations, you can play without addons when doing dungeons. I mean jeez, at least gem and enchant your gear. If not using CLC ret isn't crippling you your effort you put into your gear definitely is.

Too bad you aren't horde. I'd love to group with you and outdps you with CLC ret.
Edited by Shamus on 3/2/2012 10:42 AM PST
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90 Worgen Hunter
10420
has this thread been derailed into "addons are a crutch" yet
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85 Human Paladin
3670
03/02/2012 10:40 AMPosted by Shamus
Addons like these blur that line big time. You talk about it helping new players, but it's only helping them be lazy. They had 85 levels to learn the basics, a quick skim of elitistjerks.com and a little time on the dummy is all it takes.


You really enjoy checking to see if you're at 3 HoPo for your TV?

You really enjoy checking to see if CS is off CD when you have DP proc, and then checking to see if what HoPo you have to decide which action you should take?

I'm not saying CLC ret is the end all be all, but it's a great addon. Does a 8/8H pally use it? No, there are other addons, or ways to create a great UI that doesn't tell you how to play, and you have to work harder with it, but probably for better results. The reality is that if the addon plays mindlessly for you, and you can't think outside the box without it, then if the addon didn't exist they'd still be a terrible player. And anyone who follows the addon as a "simon says" addon is doing it wrong. You don't need to use it as an absolute. That is your issue, not ours.

You'd have some validity if you raided. But you don't. So saying you can play consistently without one is meaningless. Congratulations, you can play without addons when doing dungeons. I mean jeez, at least gem and enchant your gear. If not using CLC ret isn't crippling you your effort you put into your gear definitely is.

Too bad you aren't horde. I'd love to group with you and outdps you with CLC ret.



I raided on this toon from Vanilla up to the end of WotLK. This is my 3rd 85, after my priest reroll main and my original warlock main (who both have alternate resources to monitor, similar to HoPo). I have been 85 for a little over 24 hours /played. My gear is still in flux and being rapidly upgraded, I'm not going to bother enchanting or gemming any of it that isn't going to be part of my final PvP set. I mean come on...I'm in a mix of prot, dps, and pvp gear ranging from ilvl 316-378.

Of course you'd out-dps me you bafoon, my gear is CRAP. It wouldn't have anything to do with the addon. I can still execute a priority system without training wheels though. Or do you think ret is somehow harder than a warlock? Let's not be ridiculous here.

Btw, it might be nice to have a HoPo counter in a more convenient place...but I've been doing fine with the big yellow text that comes up every time I generate HoPo telling me how many I have. I'm not hating on the HoPo counter, I'm obviously hating on the part of the addon that tells you how to play. Don't be obtuse.
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