Topic
Current PvP is infuriating
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Edited by Grancarudd on 2/18/12 9:07 PM (PST)
I don't claim to be some epic paladin. I don't arena often and my gear isn't amazing, but I'm good at what I do. Playing since early BC in both tanking and dps I've learned the paladin class and it's changes fluently. But since my recent half a year break, every Cata move about Paladins has been changed. So this is my list of why Paladins are so frustrating to play in PvP:
Word of Glory has a 20 second CD (I've been around this change when it happened) - Really? For something that consumes all of my HP for maybe 30% health, it has such a long CD Divine Shield - Almost not even worth it now. 8 secs is good, but pretty useless when half of WoW can remove it now. Priests can pop a non CD spell to remove my gimpy little bubble with a 5 min CD? That's not even right. DK's - I've heard a lot about how Pally's counter DK's hard. Where? Their anti-magic shell grants them Paladin immunity for 5 seconds on a 45 second CD. Their survivabilty is stupid high, and it's infuriating to spam Cleans and heals, just to beat an incompetent DK. Forbearance - We're the only class that has such a harsh repercussion for such gimped moves. We can only pop our main defensive moves (HoP, DS, LoS) once a minute. By then we're dead. Our damage is decent at best if you pop wings and keep inquisition up at all times. However, having the worst gap closer of the melee world and being 100% CD reliant, we're an easy focus target and pick off. Call this thread what you want (QQ, L2P, FAILRET) Idc. This is my personal observation about where we stand now, paladins are rapidly becoming a joke in PvP, and we need help. I'm sick of being stunned til I'm at 20%, or getting blasted off a cliff right when you're about to kill someone by some stupid shaman that comes out of nowhere. It's infuriating and PvP is not in a good state right now. |
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You don't have a pvp spec, so I can see how pvp would be pretty difficult to deal with.
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First off, you don't seem to be specced in the talents people use for PvP, like Selfless Healer/Last Word/Imp HoJ/ (possibly) Blazing Light. Second of all, get the T13 2 piece set bonus, it supposedly works wonders for Ret PvP.
What about timing it with Sacred Shield? Or using it on an Arena partner to get the Selfless Healer buff?
Haven't Warriors and Priests been able to break DS since Wrath of the Lich King? Also, almost everyone else just heals up or stealths away when you pop it, and people have been doing that for ages.
I have noticed that Pallies don't have a slow unless they use Seal of Justice, which is problematic. But if you can keep in range of your target and time your Zealotry, Repentance, HoJ and HoF right, you should output huge burst and keep your target pinned. Hell, I get hit for like 30k by Retadins at times in PvP. |
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I actually think that Ret PvP is at really nice spot at the moment to be honest, it's not overpowered and it's not underpowered.
Word of Glory's CD should be shortened, I agree, but if you are only getting 30% from each one, you're obviously doing something wrong (I've personally seen crits of anywhere between 60-80k).
I agree.
Use your damn racial/pvp trinket then, and don't stand with your back towards a cliff.. or do a 360 noscopz420xblazinx720xheadzhot Hammer of Wrath while you're flying away.
All of the above, good sire. |
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Come on now. We can beat DK's easily. Just stand there, pop your cool downs and watch them drop. AMS is not immunity, most of our damage is physical (although it may not seem like it). Need to heal? Repentance and run away, let NS fall off, then wog heal to full. If they trinket repentance, sweet.
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Ret is actually awesome right now. I love how we have insane off-heals (Word of Glory has a 10 second cooldown if specced right,) a decent survival mechanic, and very solid burst.
The only thing I'm not happy about is our massive weakness to dispels. I'm fine with everything else. |
Ret is actually awesome right now. I love how we have insane off-heals (Word of Glory has a 10 second cooldown if specced right,) a decent survival mechanic, and very solid burst. The only thing I'm not happy about is not having enough sustained (and dispels). Then again, what would I do without AW/Zeal? |
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Two things I'd like to see for changes to Ret PvP after playing a lot recently.
1. Long Arm of the Law - So I judge and get an extra 30% run speed on my 115%. But then I'm suddenly slowed by a procced frost armor back to 115% or rooted. :( -At least cause Long Arm of the Law to give immunity to 'appliance of' slows during the buff or cause judgment to NOT proc slowing effects... Against mages this is terrible as my "closer" does absolutely nothing because I am immediately slowed. But I know what you're saying... Why didn't you cleanse or pop Freedom just before? Which leads me to my next point. 2. Hand of Freedom - 6 Seconds of Slow/Snare immunity, sweet. -I don't care if I have to spend 3 points in a talent that will make this un-stealable/dispellable. I'd do it in a heartbeat... Too many times have I popped Freedom to only immediately get it stolen/dispelled then reslowed which then has me spamming cleanse to knock off the 4 Slows a mage has already reapplied through facerolling. I'd say these changed are decent as Judgment + our so called "Closer" talent just slows me down even more when other melee classes (excluding Enh Sham--They get a snare anyway) get a "slam-this-button they're in your face" closer. Anyways, End rant on the Cata expansion and the 7 years of previously being inadequate and inconsistent at PvP. So far Mists is looking good for PvE as well as PvP - Yay! Finally a slow! (At the loss of Repentence) Although changes I'm sure will come and Until I get to experience both sides of content thoroughly I'm not going to put a final verdict down. Please leave feedback on my outlook and add to it what you think would be cool. :) |
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Ok to end this thread, I just dueled a friend before our DS. I've gotten rid of my PvP spec for a Prot one, and all my PvP gear was in the bank. He's a sub rogue, with PvP gear. And alot of it. I beat him in PvE gear and spec. Come on now. We have a lot of utility that you obviously have no idea how to access.
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or the Rogue was just a scub..?
Just saying, this should never ever happen against a non brain-dead sub rogue lol. |
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your friend is bad |
This doesn't prove anything I could say I beat a GM frost mage, would you care? Would you believe me? No. Does it prove anything? No. |
Spec for Selfless Healer or play Holy. Problem solved. Divine Shield - Almost not even worth it now. 8 secs is good, but pretty useless when half of WoW can remove it now. Priests can pop a non CD spell to remove my gimpy little bubble with a 5 min CD? That's not even right. Divine Shield is still good if you use it properly. Warriors and Priests are the only classes that can remove bubble and last I checked, there are 10 classes not 4. So.. If you want to play a fun little game, try delaying bubble as long as possible. My record is bubbling with 1HP left. I didn't die afterwards either because I know how to heal myself and play defensively. You should try it. DK's - I've heard a lot about how Pally's counter DK's hard. Where? Their anti-magic shell grants them Paladin immunity for 5 seconds on a 45 second CD. Their survivabilty is stupid high, and it's infuriating to spam Cleans and heals, just to beat an incompetent DK. Rets counter DKs thanks to timing and cooldowns. The idea is you time your cooldowns around their cooldowns. You know they're going to AMS. You know they're going to IBF. You know they're going to Lichborne. You know they're going to bust their pets out. Just because you can't stun them doesn't mean you can't kill them. Forbearance - We're the only class that has such a harsh repercussion for such gimped moves. We can only pop our main defensive moves (HoP, DS, LoS) once a minute. By then we're dead. I remember when it was 2min and we couldn't use wings within 30sec of anything that gave us Forebearance. Why are you complaining about this again? Our damage is decent at best if you pop wings and keep inquisition up at all times. However, having the worst gap closer of the melee world and being 100% CD reliant, we're an easy focus target and pick off. My damage is strong outside of cooldowns and scary within them. It's not hard to hurt us but there are easier targets to pick off. The reason we should die first is because good rets will make sure the easier targets stay alive. Call this thread what you want (QQ, L2P, FAILRET) Idc. Then your issue is with the general state of WoW PVP, not the paladin class. Do not blame the ret spec for your personal failings. |
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Paladin is in a great spot. We are very competitive in arena/bg. The hardest thing about pallies are utilizing all that is given to us. We are not a pure dps class. We have many different roles for many different situations...just gotta know when to use what and why because of where you are and who you are with :)
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Im new to Pally Ret PvP tbh i dont think we are that bad of a class in PvP I destroy mages and rogues and we have decent off heals and HoF for our Allies in Arena i mean hell look at when u DS and thn pop HoP who else can do that? We are the Ultimate Tool in PvP Off Heals decent 2-3 minute high burst DPS idk about u guys but i hit 20-30k when im bursting down... and we have benefical spell and buffs to help allies...? glorified warriors :D no more QQ
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Ret is pretty nice I think. Most of the problems I have with PvP are other classes being a bit OP. I do agree that Mass Dispel needs a change. Dispels and spell steals need CDs or greater risk to use somehow. Right now they just get spammed. The other major problem are rogues. They are just ridiculous IMO.
Outside of those issues, I really enjoy my ret. |
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Dispels is Ret's one weakness. It's nice getting away from that weakness with this Enh shaman, but Enh introduces way too many other weaknesses that makes Ret seem... easy. But I digress...
The Pally community seems to severely underappreciate the usefulness of spam Cleanse and Freedom. Pallies complain about their 'gap closer' but if you're not using it with freedom or at least watching for cleanses while you gap close, of course it's going to be terrible. Honestly, I think Long Arm of the Law is more useful than Charge is due to the fact that I don't HAVE to place myself in front of someone and can use it to kite or get LoS quickly (think Hunters and Mages). |
