World of Warcraft™

$&^% it, let's do it live!

So, where did all the good players go. This is not meant as you may think it is. There are people out there with skill, i realize that. There is not however, the type of players old school GM's are looking for. Wait, i guess there is but we are spread around now. There seems to be a small core in each guild.

Recruitement is a pain the !@# now-a-days. Not that there isn't skilled players, it is the calibre of the players character that I miss. You know the guys. They know their classes inside and out but the real bonus of having these players is their character. They understand how things work, they see the big picture. They have solid character. They understand the wipes and that it is part of it. They have good social skills and you can count on them.

It is getting tougher to find these people. Maybe because I am older (and same with our core members in our team) but I expect people to have the solid character to go along with the skills. It is becoming a rare commodity within wow. It used to be there...not so much any more. Too many think raiding = gear, when actually...raiding = challenge and teamwork and all the fun that brings.

The good guys, how do we find each other again? At least I have 7-8 guys/girls like that. I am thankful for that and we have a been together quite some time. Give me a few more like my core and I will be a happy man.

I know you are out there. We just need to find each other. Especially with WoW's current climate.

/End Rant

Amen man. Went through a span of several months that we were unable to find the right fit for our group, and you always end up having to settle for someone that fits right now, but maybe not for the long run. It's like dating a girl that's completely wrong for you. You like her at first, and can ignore some things you don't like here and there, but down the road all the things that drive you crazy will drive you apart.

Sadly, this doesn't always end the best way. Sometimes, like in my case, the tight-knit core each ends up going their separate ways, in-game and out. But hopefully you find what you are looking for, instead of being disappointed. Luckily I've landed in a good place since then, it seems, so I'm sure that having a little more patience will give you what you are searching for. Good luck man.

Yeah for sure amigo. I know there has to be others out there in the void feeling the same way.

I had to server xfer, since most guilds did not fit my work schedule, and most of my long time friends in hyjal xfer to new realms.

Time to move to a new server?

Since my arrival to Stormreaver it has been great, there is allot of good guilds and recruiting is not an issue here, only issue we have here is the Hobbs followers but it's been great since I left Hyjal.

But one day I will return.

Twister.

@ the OP's comment, the vast majority of guilds are exactly like you describe. There's a strong solid core, and there's some churn at the edges... I don't think that has ever changed, except for a handful of guilds for a short period of time.

Looking around the server, what's alarming isn't the general decline in player quality (I have no idea if this is true or not). Instead, what's alarming is the very noticeable lack of people who are willing to (or are capable of) stepping up and doing something to change the situation. Forget about the where the good players are. Where are the good leaders?

Old guilds die, and fewer new guilds form, yet if people are truly dissatisfied, you would think that there would be at least a few groups here and there talking to each other, and making plans to build something new and meaningful. How does any "good guild" begin, if not in this exact way?

Cata has been a reasonably successful expansion for <TF>, yet despite that, I find it interesting that while occasionally someone will ask me a one-off question about fight strategy or class spec, never once have I been asked any question about how to form a guild, or lead a guild, or how to keep a guild together. And this is despite the fact that there is an enormous amount of information out there these days on strats and specs, and hardly any meaningful or reputable material on guild management!

There are a number of factors that I'm sure contribute to this trend.

1. Guild levels: people are far less likely to form new guilds and lose all the perks/guild reps they've already worked on. True, you will see people do this on occasion, but not usually in large groups or from guilds who are doing "well enough".

2. Many of the people who were hardcore about raiding, improving their characters, and working as a team through progression just don't have the same amount of free time they had 5 years ago. They may still be around, but they aren't able to regularly set aside the time and effort they once could. Some have kids now, some have better jobs that require more time. Whatever the case, many are now *cough* casuals.

3. Along the same line as two.... many of the people who have been playing since the beginning decided at one point or another that they needed a break. They come back to the game to find they can't get into one of the more dedicated guilds, with the caliber of players they have historically played with because they are a major content patch behind. So they join a guild that will take them, a high leveled casual guild. Which leads back to point 1.

Some excellent points made above. For me, and this is just what I feel, guild perks are just a perk. It eases the quality of life a bit but to me, not a game changer. I really believe community has taken a hit, that is part of it.

Dissecting what may be wrong, there is numerous reasons, and you guys have stated some above. The thinning ratio of great players to great people and trying to get someone that has both components...it's been a pain in thy !@#$.

Let's do this, the great player/great person has to now go through a 100 question application, once passed....they have to get a tattoo on their %^- so I can plainly see it (and so can other GM's) Honestly, I do not want to look at your bum....I just need to know.

Recruitement is a pain the !@# now-a-days. Not that there isn't skilled players, it is the calibre of the players character that I miss. You know the guys. They know their classes inside and out but the real bonus of having these players is their character. They understand how things work, they see the big picture. They have solid character. They understand the wipes and that it is part of it. They have good social skills and you can count on them.

I really don't think you can blame bad recruiting on the lack of good players. In terms of progression it is hard to find players that may be where you need them to be gear wise to continue progression, but in terms of skill there are lots of good players out there. Also you need to not just look on server as many players are willing to server transfer for a stable/successful raid group.

No, you've missed the point Hax, there is good players, there is just fewer good solid character to go along with the skills, that is a big difference. People have the skills, just lacking in social skills and heart. There use to be more of those around, hell maybe there still is...just spread out too much.

No, you've missed the point Hax, there is good players, there is just fewer good solid character to go along with the skills, that is a big difference. People have the skills, just lacking in social skills and heart. There use to be more of those around, hell maybe there still is...just spread out too much.

Social skills are never taken into consideration when I look at people joining my guild. One of my best raiders is my spriest and she does not have a mic or really talk very much, but I would not trade her for anything because she is a great player. When I look at potential recruits all I care about is their skill and if they can meet raid times. They are told at the beginning that any trolling will trigger an insta Gkick no questions asked. Some may say hurts us in terms of people be wary of stepping on others toes but I say makes us strong because every raider knows that when they log on they log onto a clean environment where they do no need to worry about being harassed.

In terms of heart we have had one of our healers step down after our progression kill of Hwarmaster due to not being able to take the stress. You are bound to run into that sort of thing as you progress to harder bosses and there is nothing you can do about it except accept the resignation and keep going.

In all honesty I feel you can't really tell if a player is a great player until you put them in a raid lockout situation where its either kill this boss or go home with your tail between your legs. Tensions run high and tempers flare, and you as a player know that even the slightest mistake you could potential cause a wipe. I know at one point I believe I said "The next person who gets hit by a charge will be benched immediately!." A great raider takes that as ok game time lets do this! Everyone focus! vs say a good raider who may take offense to that and become mad and thus play even worse. I guess I'm rambling, but a great raider is not great due to just person skill, but due to his team as well and that interaction between the team and the raider and on the more person side the RL and the raider.

That is pretty close to what I am saying. You can also have the other type who is a great player, lacks the character and may be a cancer to the group. Then you lose that awesome dude you love to raid with.

I mean social skill as in actions/character, not meaning talking on vent.

*edit for spelling*

That is pretty close to what I am saying. You can also have the other type who is a great player, lacks the character and may be a cancer to the group. Then you lose that awesome dude you love to raid with.

I mean social skill as in actions/character, not meaning talking on vent.

If he is a cancer to the group then he really is not a great player, part of being a great player is being able to act like a grownup. I have a couple people in my raid team that love to joke around and get loud when we are not on progression, but they know that when it comes to progression that they shut up and vent is silent.

Also people raid for different reasons, some to enjoy the company others to push progression while others for just something to do. It is up to the RL to set what the tone is of the group and set the bar in terms of what the team is looking to do. At the start of this tier I set the tone talking to my raiders and telling them that I want to be top 10 server and will do what we have to get there. I changed our loot system, our benefits offered by guild, and our raid layout to reflect that tone. We deprive our enjoyment from downing bosses and getting those hard kills, not from our social interaction. My raiders will tell you that some of their most enjoyable times is wiping on a boss 20 times and finally downing that boss. I love to raid with the people because we get stuff done, and everyone knows that if something does not get done or a boss does not go down then something will be changed.

My point is that your missing a crucial piece in what makes a player great, his guild/rl/team. A good player put in a bad environment will be a bad player, a good player put into a great environment will be a great player. Without the proper tone in place and great strong leaders even the greatest of players will fail. Your attempting to get great players just due to their skill while not looking at the other piece of the puzzle and that being what you offer them and the tone which is brought forth by the team and more importantly the RL.

Put it any way you want, it still comes down to finding skilled players with a solid character.

Put it any way you want, it still comes down to finding skilled players with a solid character.

So I am a bit curious and though curiosity killed the cat I simply would like to be 100% sure. Your post timing have anything to do with a recent turn over of a player?

Origin has never had a bad enviorment.. We lost people to RL and did have a very solid team. Replacing them has been the issue, People dont seem to want to Wipe for progression.. Sure they think the grass is greener on the other side.. So they leave for greener pastures and find out that those people wipe as well on progression. I do however have hope that we will soon find what we are looking for and can continue with progression.

02/20/2012 04:10 PMPosted by Haxzors

Put it any way you want, it still comes down to finding skilled players with a solid character.

So I am a bit curious and though curiosity killed the cat I simply would like to be 100% sure. Your post timing have anything to do with a recent turn over of a player?

Not at all, He wasnt with us long enough to make an impact.

02/20/2012 04:16 PMPosted by Cayoco

So I am a bit curious and though curiosity killed the cat I simply would like to be 100% sure. Your post timing have anything to do with a recent turn over of a player?

Not at all, He wasnt with us long enough to make an impact.

Ok I was just curious as to if I am reading too much into the OP or it was simply a timing coincidence.

And I am not trying to claim that Origin has a bad environment, nor trying to discredit any of its leaders. How you handle things and I handle things are a bit different, but that is simply a difference of opinion. My point was that recruitment is as much about the guild/raid team as it is about the player coming into the guild/raid team. I feel both need to be on a certain level for a great player to be born as the outcome in any guild.

Funny how he was talking to naeblis last week to see what are thoughts were about having him back. He is a nice guy, though.

Really it has all come down to changes in the game and how easy it is to jump around from the days of old. You had to wait 30 days to transfer you character back in the older days. That put a great deal of pressure on the player if they decided to realm change. With that I think it kept a lot of people on that server for the long haul, it wasn't a case of the grass is greener, it was a look before you leap mentality.

But it is hard to find good quality players that understand that when you join a guild you have to put in your time, do a good job, know your character, and you class well. Everyone wants instant progression and doesn't want to spend the days of working on a boss for progression.

Good luck in your search for a quality healer or two that will stay put and help with your progression.