Dear Blizzard, Stop making 1 tank fights.

90 Human Paladin
13665
02/19/2012 11:26 PMPosted by Omegal
Warmaster can be 1 tanked, you have someone run on top of the deck (the upper level) and taunt, he has to path all the way around up the stairs, then gets taunted down (or that person jumps down) and he has to path back down again. basically, gimmick.


To fix this, they need to give Warmaster Blackhorn a Heroic Throw ability. If his current aggro target gets more than 20 yards away from him, he would Heroic Throw for 200k damage, and leave a 3 minute debuff that reduces armor and max HP by 50%.

It's one thing to power through mechanics with cooldowns.

It's another thing entirely to exploit aggro mechanics and mob pathing.
Edited by Dekkar on 2/23/2012 9:03 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9760
I like DPSing the first 4 fights and then tanking the last 4. Gives me a little time to mix it up and compete with the "pure" DPS classes. Doesnt really bother me that much.
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90 Troll Death Knight
0
02/23/2012 09:02 AMPosted by Dekkar
Warmaster can be 1 tanked, you have someone run on top of the deck (the upper level) and taunt, he has to path all the way around up the stairs, then gets taunted down (or that person jumps down) and he has to path back down again. basically, gimmick.


To fix this, they need to give Warmaster Blackhorn a Heroic Throw ability. If his current aggro target gets more than 20 yards away from him, he would Heroic Throw for 200k damage, and leave a 3 minute debuff that reduces armor and max HP by 50%.

It's one thing to power through mechanics with cooldowns.

It's another thing entirely to exploit aggro mechanics and mob pathing.


It's not really an exploit though because all of the mechanics are working as intended. It seems like they thought that migh happen too since they made him run so fast. That sort of strat would usually be classified under the "creative use of class mechanics" rather than an exploit.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
15670
it's hardly an exploit .. it's like hagara. You taunt her to make her move during her Focused Assault.

TBH i think this is a lesser evil. It just opens up the possibility to 1 tank fights that were designed around 2 tanks to begin with. The difference is that both hagara and warmaster are not really dps checks. They were tuned under the assumption of either using 2 tanks (warmaster) or 1 tank with a long enrage timer (hagara). So there's very little gain in 1 tanking those fights .. if your group can manage, great .. but there's no clear advantage.


The problem were on fights that had such a brutal dps pre-req (zon'ozz, yor'sajh, spine etc) where solo tanking is BETTER than 2 tanking it. In those fights the difference is noticiable. Having an extra 10-20k dps IS a dealbreaker. Even 1 tanking yor'sajh, in the 2nd week we were wiping to enrage timer for lacking 5-8k dps that we simply couldn't squeeze with our gear. After half a dozen ~5% wipes we simply stopped and said "ok, we dont have enough gear to do this, lets see next week". 2 tanking it .. we were barely reaching 15% before the enrage.

THAT turned to be a problem. When bringing 2 tanks screw you on enrage timer. Specially in fights that have mechanics easier dealt with 2 tanks. But when the enrage timers were so tight, people usually cut the fat on dps (aka tanks) ..

Take for example Baleroc 25h. The 1st kills had like 1 tank and 4 (or 5) healers .. now compare that to the usual "2 tanks and 6-7 healers" that most 25 man have. When you make fights with a clear "X dps required or the boss will enrage and wipe the raid". People will do whatever is necessary to beat that. That's fine.

But when said "X" means they can't afford to bring 2 tanks, and on extreme cases they even have to cut healers .. that's a horrible flaw in design.
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85 Worgen Death Knight
10585
Honestly I can't really fathom why you would want to single tank warmaster unless you just don't have 2 tanks for some reason.

The dps time lost in him running around like a loon HAS to be a significant detractor from one tanking him.

I hear about people doing this stuff and all I really think to myself is "why make things harder on the dps than necessary."
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90 Draenei Death Knight
15670
yup .. it's exactly what i thought .. not sure if i see as a gain to lose a lot of dps with the boss running around (and likely breaking LoS) than simply having a second tank ..

it's not like his ground phase is a dps race.
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90 Tauren Druid
13625
Phase 1 maybe? That's all I can think of.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
14235
02/23/2012 03:51 PMPosted by Nìkolus
Honestly I can't really fathom why you would want to single tank warmaster unless you just don't have 2 tanks for some reason.


Because you can.

/shrug
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
One Paladin Tank. Fathom Lord Karathress.

History.
Edited by Slashlove on 2/23/2012 4:36 PM PST
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90 Undead Death Knight
8900
Debuff stacking mechanics to force swapping has to be my all time most hated mechanic.
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Because you can is reason enough to do everything.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
Because you can is the best reason to do everything
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14 Dwarf Hunter
30
02/23/2012 04:43 PMPosted by Laina
Debuff stacking mechanics to force swapping has to be my all time most hated mechanic.


it's more fun than Saber Lash, Blood Mirror. at least you get to tank.
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10 Gnome Mage
9115
02/23/2012 10:06 PMPosted by Freph
Debuff stacking mechanics to force swapping has to be my all time most hated mechanic.


it's more fun than Saber Lash, Blood Mirror. at least you get to tank.


Absolute truth.

IMHO, while debuff stacking by itself is pretty boring, combining it with other elements, such as a tanked add, like with certain Halfus combos, spices it up a bit.

Patchwerk's Hatefuls were fun for me, but now in the absence of meaningful threat they would be as boring as any other Saber Lash. Blood Mirror was just, I'm too polite to say what I thought of that.

An ideal encounter for me would actually be something like Maloriak, but make it so after each green phase the tanks had to swap roles so they get equal time on the boss and the adds.
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85 Night Elf Warrior
15680
Hey, original saber lash was perfect. It was deep enough into the zone that it was the perfect time to go make a sandwich. :)
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90 Draenei Death Knight
15670
02/23/2012 10:06 PMPosted by Freph
Debuff stacking mechanics to force swapping has to be my all time most hated mechanic.


it's more fun than Saber Lash, Blood Mirror. at least you get to tank.


standing there doing nothing for half the fight ....

i rather dps and see big numbers ¬¬

I wasn't a tank during icc and i don't regret at all. The only 1-2 raid days that i tanked because one of the tanks missed the raid .. i was like "omg HOW BORING THIS IS".

marrowgar - stand there like a potato sack and share cleave
ldw - one of the few interesting fights to tank ... THE ADDS. Tanking the boss was just beyond stupid.
gunship - was actually somewhat interesting
saurfang jr - stand there and tank every now and then .. boring.
festergut - stand there and tank every now and then .. boring.
rotface - was somewhat interesting .. since there was a little movement etc
putricide - was actually fun because it had some movement .. positioning etc
blood princes - that was fun to tank .. many mechanics to look for.
blood queen - THE worst fight in wow history to tank .. bejeweled video anyone?
green dragon - ... meh
Sindragosa - was actually interesting, tank swap, positioning, avoid stuff etc
LK - the only really fun fight to tank in the entire instance.


The thing is .. tanking standing still as a tank, is simply boring. Any monkey can taunt from each other at X stacks.

Dpsing .. it doesn't matter if the fight is tank n spank .. there's always the "dps competition" and trying to push the limit of previous logs.

ironically, for me, the only way to make tank n spank fights interesting as a tank, is to pretend i'm a dpser, and try to beat my previous crap dps.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
02/24/2012 05:22 AMPosted by Eflow
Sindragosa - was actually interesting, tank swap, positioning, avoid stuff etc


Wasn't Sindragosa 1-tank? Or was there some reason I don't remember that you needed two on heroic? I feel like we one-tanked her all the time.

I also think that a single saber-lash fight in a raid the size of ICC would be acceptable, but I don't mind the occasional fight where I just try to DPS in tank spec from in front of the boss. Blood queen was beyond bad, but I kind of enjoyed Marrowgar. /shrug.

Edit:
I guess I just disagree with a lot of your feelings on ICC. But then, I ended up having other things I could do. I kited the slime on Rotface, I healed on the green dragon, and I solo-tanked Sindragosa (which was challenging for me anyways, in a resist set while trying to hold aggro off hunters that forget how to Feign and fury warriors that can't turn it off). Some of the fights were less fun, but overall it was a pretty good instance. And a good size that each individual fight was less impactful overall.
Edited by Aixelsyd on 2/24/2012 8:21 AM PST
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90 Dwarf Death Knight
13535
I actually didn't mind saber lash too much, but then we used the strat where everyone piled in his hitbox and the tanks spent the entire fight trying to dodge fire in unison.
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86 Troll Druid
10495
So...
Uh..
Flawed logic?

I hear 1 tank fights drop tank gear.
How's he supposed to get it if he's subbed for a DPS?

On the alternative, he's subbing out voluntarily, which means quitting probably had little to do with 1 tank fights.

Alternately to that, you're forcefully subbing him out, rather than gearing an OS DPS for them. In which case, you get what you dish.

Somewhere, there's something wrong with the OP post, with either the OP or the OT. o_O

IMO.
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90 Troll Warrior
16215
Wasn't Sindragosa 1-tank? Or was there some reason I don't remember that you needed two on heroic? I feel like we one-tanked her all the time.

I feel like there was a stacking frost debuff.
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