Topic
Bad tanks and good tanks.
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What makes the difference? some people don't really know and its a lot of things those who think they're good and the people who are
I've been tanking since vanilla and recently healed our guilds alt group with my pally... i have seen 20+ tanks walk through... i had no idea the lack of ability existed. (ill colab this into one) THE 5 THINGS THAT MAKE A GOOD TANK: 1. Having an offspec Especially now with most bosses being 1 tankable I DON'T want to have the worse tank one tanking it or the one with the worse dps spec. So I HATE when i run into tanks who say "oh i don't have an off spec i'm so good a tank i don't need it" or "I have an off spec but its rdps pally" NO! have an off spec if you are raiding! Its so easy to build one now in a day's time you should have it! 2. React accordingly To many times i get the tank who doesn't react to situations the way they should. I'm not saying "Oh they didn't blow a cd at the right time" I'm saying that when somebody dies or somebody takes a chunk of damage or something weird happens they stop doing everything and say in vent "whoa wth happened" and then get smashed in the face because they weren't watching there fore wiping us all. Somebody dies, Pop a fast cd like bone shield or divine protection not stop and ask what we are doing wrong mid fight! 3. Incorrect usage of abilities Did you know that if you have two of the same buff on at the same time that the generator only takes the higher one and uses that? THEN WHY DO YOU MACRO ALL YOUR CD'S TOGETHER? The point of cd's is to span them out of long periods of time. Not for 10 secs your invincible with gotak up and wasting all the others. Use cool downs EFFECTIVELY! When that big hit is coming that's when! Right before Impale or stomp or something like that. not oh nothings going on i'll just pop em now so healers can regen some mana 4.Gear, reforge, and spec correctly. This is important i haven't seen people who spec incorrectly tank because they don't even get into my raid. If you don't take toughness or sanctuary or whatever your talent for that is. You my friend should have your tanking license revoked. Here's a sword go chop at that bosses ankles. you are not allowed to tank. You should always spec into those things because without it you are worthless! you cannot even argue why not! go to youtube watch some guides they will tell you about your class. Make sure your cramming mastery to all your pieces of gear make sure you are getting movement speed make sure you know what you are doing! And the most important one 5. KNOW THE FIGHT!!! Read the tool tips go to youtube. watch the fights KNOW WHATS GOING ON! this is incredibly important so you can react accordingly and not get surprised by something that you had no idea happened and get wiped for that reason. Tanks make sure nobody dies but If you die guess what happens? I hope this was helpful and if there's any more things you can think of post them. Thanks for reading. |
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I hate to armory troll, but you may want to consider your own advice. Blood Caked Blade is a terrible talent. :P
Not disagreeing with your points (2, imo, is the most important one. What Xurk said), just pointing that out. ----- Attack tables, CTC, diminishing returns and you! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2489160859 |
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Edited by Zapwidget on 2/20/12 2:26 PM (PST)
Why does having an offspec make you a good tank? I am such a good tank that I don't need an offspec. Not to mention that with all the raid-wide damage going around, I can do more than "acceptable" DPS in my protection spec with RF turned off wearing my farm gear. And Ret is such a mess from what it was when I actively specced it that I do more DPS as Protection than I do as Ret anyway, despite having a similar iLevel in both sets.
Anyway, the rest of your points are pretty solid, but point one does not apply to everyone, if it applies to anyone at all. Besides, the times when I did decide to let the DK tank it, I sat and let the extra DPSer who is usually on sit take my spot. |
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One very important thing many people seem to overlook is the ability to effectively and efficiently communicate. As tanks, we occupy a natural leadership role, and even basic things like telling the raid that you're turning/moving the boss, calling out for healer cooldowns, or simply announcing your own cooldowns can be immensely helpful.
Also:
Can you clarify what you mean by this? Because it sounds like you're saying that damage reduction cooldowns don't stack at all, which would be incorrect. |
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I don't have an off spec, my guild has plethora of healers and I cannot stand ret since its cata overhaul. Fortunately my co tank has a good fury set and he knows how to use it.
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I said point one because like i said most fights are one tankable so if you are offtanking you should have a dps spec. And if you are main tanking you should carry one around too because you never know when someone is going to say "hey can you dps this tank B is better at tanking this specific fight so we don't need you doing it" And if you just can't do a fight (not denying anyones skill but what some people see in you isn't exactly a mirror of what you see) You may have to dps.
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4079444 Can you clarify what you mean by this? Because it sounds like you're saying that damage reduction cooldowns don't stack at all, which would be incorrect. I'm saying that it isn't wise to do that and at that they stack weaker to a certain point and it isnt even a question you don't do that |
It is more makes u a more polite tank most tanks like to tank and alot of tanks hate being sat for half the fights in a instance so being able to rotate the tanking dutys by a fight by fight basis doesn't annoy your co-tank to much:) |
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Most of your rules make sense except for number 1 and 3. I use to have a holy set back in WotLK but since then I hated healing and ret is kinda bad. Just bc some tanks don't have an offspec doesn't mean they are cocky. Maybe some people hate to both dps and heal therefore they only tank. Also, on your explantion about rule 3 didn't really clear it up haha.
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I can see that, but it's been my good fortune that all of my co-tanks have come from the ranks of my DPSers, and DPSing remained their primary spec. I'd also prefer to give all the DPS gear to the DPSers, and only bother with gearing my own set when the alternative is sharding it, and maintaining an active offspec for both tanks would mean both of us (unless I luck out and get a leather co-tank in Mists) would be competing for gear and take us longer to gear up. Anyway, as for the CD stacking. The only way they lose effectiveness is that damage reduction is multiplied, not added, so the reduction of multiple CDs is 100*0.8*0.8*0.8=51.2% damage rather than 100-20-20-20=40% damage. There is nothing being overwritten, and yes, in most cases it's not good to stack them, and rarely ever good to stack them all, but you do gain benefit from stacking them all if you do. |
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Well, I'm a bad tank by rule 1 alone. I don't want to be anything other than Prot. Probably part of why I don't raid seriously.
Don't tell me how to play, BRO! |
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Edited by Celyndrashad on 2/21/12 2:43 AM (PST)
Lots and lots of alcohol.
No. That is not how it works at all. If you use two damage reduction cds at once they do in fact stack. The problem is that they stack multiplicatively meaning that overall they are weaker. Divine protection and GoaK give 20% and 50% damage reduction respectively. If you use them both at the same time and they stacked additively you would get 70% Damage reduction. But since they stack multiplicatively you get 1-(1-.2)*(1-.5)=0.6 A 60% damage reduction cd. That is whey GENERALLY its better to rotate cds than use them altogether. Key word here is generally. Why? Because sometimes you get a special move that does so much damage one cd is not enough. If the boss special hits for 1.4 million you will need to use all your survival cds in conjunction just to survive. 1.4million*(1-.2 Divine Protection)*(1-.2 Ardent defender)*(1-.5 GoAK)*(1-.1 sanct)*(1-.1 vindication)*(1-.4 pain surpression)*(1-.3 HoSacrice)=152409 damage Which is survivable.
And if you have cds to spare making life easier on your healer is also a good thing. Popping them at the beginning of a pull is a very good use if you know you have your big cds saved for that burst your going to receive later. |
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Edited by Asane on 2/21/12 2:37 AM (PST)
1 Is definitely not true, my offspec has absolutely no affect on me tanking. In fact, I'd argue having a seperate spec for certain occasions makes me a better tank (ignore the one now, it's a screwy every healing talent build)
5 is situational, I don't know tier 14 fights, yet I consider myself a good tank. I can learn extremely fast, that makes me better than someone who knows the fight too much and makes arrogant mistakes over it. |
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I personally only tank with my warrior BUT I do have an offspec for the exact reason of either rotation during a raid OR if only one tank is needed. Usually I can do more dps in my tank gear than my dps gear because I spend more time gearing to be a tank than dps.
Not having an offspec as a tank, doesn't mean your cocky or w/e. No idea where that came from. Most prefer to only tank with a toon that has tanking abilities, like the warrior for example. Other than that, the rest of what the OP said is good. It's necessary to have situational awareness as well as knowing the boss fights. |
