"Pure Damage Dealing" Classes - A Brief Rant.

85 Blood Elf Hunter
zum
6345
*We join our hero Pointdrop as he decides to get his feet wet with PvE for the first time after several months, Let's see what happens! Read my bullet point story and then we may discuss the joy's of Damage Dealing in depth! Let's begin....


1) I am back into wow! First day back in several months, woohoo!

2) Ah good old dungeon finder! * Queues for a dungeon on only 85 - Hunter*

3) Waiting... I can wait 10 minutes. No problem I will gear up and progress!

4) 14 Minutes Total. Que pops. I missed it because I was tabbed out.

5) "Shoot" better pay attention! *Re-ques*

6) Spend the next 10 minutes in que "Watching Wow" I could have prolly done a daily. No problem-o I'm still having fun and I'm happy to be back here!

7) *Que Pop's* Fall out of chair. Spill coke on my keyboard, and Squeal in glee. At Least I am finally in.. Only took 24 minutes. Mostly my fault, but let's slay some dragons!

8) Healer says "I am not good at this dungeon" but has great gear. Tank is quiet but buffing, the dps look capable. Everyone is a little undergeared but thats what dungeons are for! It's GO TIME!

9) Tank dies. Healer goes OOM. Dps drop like flies. ....*Feign Death*

10) Healer says: "I am sorry guys I can't heal this. I hope you get someone better!" *Leaves party* -Poor guy, he tried his best.

11) Look closer at tank. Realize he is in full ret pvp gear (Blue set).

12) Tank says, "Healer was terrible" 2 Dps Leave also.

13) I roll my eyes and everyone stay's quiet and we re-que and I pray that the healer is a 370+ Gearscore resto Druid.

14) Healer joins group. - It is a 370+ resto druid!! (Thank you wow gods. Thank you!) He carries our "Tank" to the first boss.

15) Kill boss. Minimal trouble. DPS agility Dagger drops. Rogue and me rolled for it. He lost and wen't "Aww" so i checked his gear and gave him the dagger. Awesome! Better upgrade for him!

16) Before second boss the tank and 2 other dps died on trash.

17) 2nd boss we wipe. Tank leaves. Healer stay's out of pity (Even thou he didn't say anything and noone begged him)

18) We reque. Wait 4 minutes. Get a new tank rather quickly! - Omg he actually has tank gear, were saved!

19) I retract number 18. We died. healer left. Tank says, "Healer couldn't heal" *My eye twitched at this moment* And then the tank leaves.

20) I then waited in que with the other 2 dps for 5 minutes Until I finally gave up and left group.


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My discussion is as follows:
How in the world do my fellow pure DPS classes (Locks, Hunters, Rogues, and Mages) Not go insane from this cycle of Wasting time, being in failing groups, and completely relying on tanks and healers for every aspect of our PvE gameplay? (Dungeon's Mostly but including Raids)

If a class can tank, or if a class can heal do you take advantage of that classes hybrid ability or do you still choose DPS roles?

Why should anyone choose a Hunter, Rogue, Lock, or mage from a purely gameplay perspective when other classes can do what we do but also have other options available to them? What makes our classes "Special"?
Edited by Pointdrop on 2/26/2012 6:05 PM PST
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I've been rather lucky and never got much difficulties in groups since the time everyone was yelling disaster and claiming Cata heroics in 4.0 were too hard.

However, I've been mostly running heroics with guildies since 4.1, but I still had a lot of luck so far with groups. Even undergeared or flat out... stupid groups, were carriable!

Of course, most hybrid classes have amazing raid CD's like tranquility, Anti-Magic zone and all, but as a pure dps class, we all have a ton of tools to make heroic encounters easier and we just have to use them properly and this can turn every bad situation in a good one. I can't count the number of times I've Mirror Image tanked to victory, or used a Ring of Frost on adds to give just a few more seconds for the tank to live or get healed, letting us complete the encounter, etc...

Of course, Mages have a pretty insane toolbox that is particularly useful in heroics, but still.
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90 Gnome Mage
9665
Que with guildies

Set sounds so you can hear dungeon pop tabbed out (believe it's in options)

I Mage because I love the playstyle.
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85 Blood Elf Mage
9920
02/26/2012 06:01 PMPosted by Pointdrop
How in the world do my fellow pure DPS classes (Locks, Hunters, Rogues, and Mages) Not go insane from this cycle of Wasting time, being in failing groups, and completely relying on tanks and healers for every aspect of our PvE gameplay? (Dungeon's Mostly but including Raids)

We don't que up ^.^
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97 Dwarf Hunter
17320
02/26/2012 08:04 PMPosted by Elidra
You seem to be under the gross illusion that all hybrids enjoy using (or even use at all, for that matter) their tank and/or heal specs.

You seem to be under the gross illusion that all pures enjoy using (or even use at all, for that matter) their highest dps specs.
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85 Human Death Knight
10860
You, my hunter friend, fell victim to what I call "the 75%." It does not care if youre a pure, it does not care if youre geared, it does not care.

What is this evil "the 75%" you ask?

My rough guestimation of what percentage of this game is flat out awful at it. The great killer of pugs.
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97 Dwarf Hunter
17320
02/26/2012 10:29 PMPosted by Elidra
You seem to be under the gross illusion that all pures enjoy using (or even use at all, for that matter) their highest dps specs.

That's entirely unrelated to this discussion.

It's pretty much the exact same statement you made. Why wouldn't a hybrid que as tank or heals if they have the gear required to do so? Same can be said for pures, why wouldn't they que in their best dps spec?

Honestly, whether a hybrid wants to tank/heal or not they still manage to somehow alienate the fact that they can do so whenever comparing their classes to those of the role limited pures. If a hybrid doesn't want to play their class to the advantage that it offers, why should dps be auto rolling the fotm dps specs if they want to play another spec? You could argue both ways but neither argument really holds more water than the other. It just depends on the playstyle that you want, maybe one day pures will have the luxury of being able to roll whatever spec they want and still be successful, like hybrids do now, with a few outliers of course but even warriors, shamans, etc. have more options of a spec to play than pures.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
12085
02/26/2012 11:14 PMPosted by Elidra
That's great. Take it to a thread about that. The OP was asking how pures get through dungeon queues since hybrids apparently all tank or heal, meaning they don't have to deal with being a DPS in the Dungeon Finder. I was correcting that erroneous assumption.

If a class can tank, or if a class can heal do you take advantage of that classes hybrid ability or do you still choose DPS roles?

Why should anyone choose a Hunter, Rogue, Lock, or mage from a purely gameplay perspective when other classes can do what we do but also have other options available to them? What makes our classes "Special"?
I see questions, not assumptions.
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100 Human Paladin
18685
02/26/2012 10:43 PMPosted by Spinnerdh
It's pretty much the exact same statement you made. Why wouldn't a hybrid que as tank or heals if they have the gear required to do so? Same can be said for pures, why wouldn't they que in their best dps spec?


One of these is completely unrelated to queue times. So, yes, your rant is kinda irrelevant to the topic. You know, the topic about queue times.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
12085
Questions can be based on assumptions. Good job ignoring the question that showcases said assumption.

How in the world do my fellow pure DPS classes (Locks, Hunters, Rogues, and Mages) Not go insane from this cycle of Wasting time, being in failing groups, and completely relying on tanks and healers for every aspect of our PvE gameplay? (Dungeon's Mostly but including Raids)

It's not only pures that are at the mercy of tanks and healers in PvE.

I still dont see that as 'zomg every hybrid always uses their tank/heal specs.' I see the assumption that hybrids have the option, but the question still seems to me to be about what pures do, not whether or not hybrids suffer.
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85 Blood Elf Mage
10825
/shrug

If you LFR or LFD, be prepared to be stumped by incompetence.

To circumvent that, either don't queue (difficult if you are just starting out), queue with guildies or queue and hope for the best.

I used to rage too when I LFD/LFR until I stopped. :)
Edited by Vaeleon on 2/27/2012 12:25 AM PST
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100 Human Rogue
15670
IM WINNING ON THREAT IM WINNING ON THREAT IM WINNING ON THREAT
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97 Dwarf Hunter
17320
02/26/2012 11:20 PMPosted by Airc
It's pretty much the exact same statement you made. Why wouldn't a hybrid que as tank or heals if they have the gear required to do so? Same can be said for pures, why wouldn't they que in their best dps spec?


One of these is completely unrelated to queue times. So, yes, your rant is kinda irrelevant to the topic. You know, the topic about queue times.

Tanks and healers get faster ques, and yes, your dps spec doesn't determine how quick you get into a dungeon, but if you pull poor dps in dungeons you might get the boot, and you might not being doing very good dps because you are playing your favorite spec instead of the best spec for your class.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11760
As some other posters have started, and as The Beatles eloquently put it "get by with a little help from [your] friends". I took a fresh 85 druid (granted it was a tank), from nothing to geared, to solo tanking madness in 4 days (and working 32 hrs during that time, I wasnt just playing non stop). WoW is a social game, if you want to go it alone as a pure you're gonna take the long road. Somewhere in the game there is a saying "Keep your friends close and your tanking friends closer". Other than that, its not that blizzard or GC are haters on pures, the nature of the game and encounter design dictate that tanks and healers (being that you need less) will be in higher demand and furthermore alot of players don't like the 'responsibility' of playing those roles, or maybe they just dont like the play style, so dps are more common than tanks/heals.
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90 Human Paladin
10685
02/27/2012 12:40 AMPosted by Spinnerdh
Tanks and healers get faster ques, and yes, your dps spec doesn't determine how quick you get into a dungeon, but if you pull poor dps in dungeons you might get the boot, and you might not being doing very good dps because you are playing your favorite spec instead of the best spec for your class.


Every class has at least one good DPS spec. Certainly good enough for 5-man dungeons.

Hell, in 5-mans, any DPS spec in the game is good enough to get through.

Some classes have tank and/or healing specs, but that doesn't mean players all want to use them just for the shorter queue, or are good enough in those specs to make the run less than agonisingly painful.

Even in 5-mans, tanks and healers need to be geared enough and skilled enough not to cause the sort of wipes the OP listed.

I sympathise with the OP, but I don't see what it has to do with 'pure' DPS classes. It's a problem any player can face as a DPS.
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90 Troll Hunter
12505
My 5-man groups don't fail because I am in there.
I am tank, healer, and DPS all rolled into one, dungeon trash (including bosses) fall on their knees so I can slay them and collect their shineys.

The other 4 are there, essentially filling the "cheerleader" roll.

I r hunter. I r elite.
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