Improving LFR loot distribution in a workday

85 Blood Elf Priest
3990
This is a suggestion mainly directed to the developers of the LFR system.

There are simple ways to improve the whole LFR loot distribution system and experience without spending much development time. As a programmer who has worked on large-scale projects (maybe not as large as World of Warcraft), these changes could be added in a couple days time and pushed for alpha/internal testing very rapidly.

Enhancing roll bonuses in LFR based on need:

  • Check what the player is queued as => If the player has queued for a particular role, they should only be able to get a roll bonus on items that they need for that role. Example: Players should not be able to get a roll bonus on DPS gear that drops when they queued up as a healer originally. I am pretty sure that this is already in place, but I believe that there was an exploit before (not sure if it is fixed) where a person could respec during rolls and get the bonus for that spec (e.g. a Paladin who was Holy could respec to Retribution during a roll and get the roll bonus for say a DPS trinket even though they entered LFR as a Healer). Implemented currently as a Roll bonuses += 100.
  • Player has loot already equipped/bank/inventory/void storage => If this is true, a player should not get a roll bonus on that drop. Simple to implement. Implement by removing all roll bonuses (Roll bonuses = 0).
  • Player has better version of loot => If a player has the normal or heroic versions of the LFR item that dropped, they should not get a roll bonus on that drop. Also simple to implement. Implement by removing all roll bonuses (Roll bonuses = 0).


These changes would make rolls more fair than they currently are. This would discourage groups of friends queuing together and rolling on gear that they do not need and giving it to a buddy. It would also eliminate needing on tokens and gaining roll bonuses for offspec gear.

Evaluating performance is a difficult thing to do, but nonetheless something that should also be looked at.

Enhancing roll bonuses in LFR based on performance:
I'm assuming that this would be done on a per-fight basis (if you wipe on the encounter once, it would reset the next time you did the encounter). The players that perform well should get some sort of bonus to their roll. This bonus need not be big (could range anywhere from 0-30 extra points). I'm sure that internally you, Blizzard, have ways of obtaining information about average damage and healing done for each class role per fight. Additionally, there are also ways of looking at the item level of a player and taking that into consideration when giving out this extra bonus. For DPS and healers, as long as the player meets this average damage and healing done, they could earn extra roll bonus points. If they exceed the average by a lot, they earn more points. Likewise, if they are way below the average, they would not earn as much extra roll bonus points. For tanks, it's a little different. As long as the tanks can keep aggro and do not die (stay alive for most of the fight), they should be able to accrue roll bonus points. You could take into consideration the average damage taken for each tank/DPS/and healer per encounter. Higher damage taken usually implies poorer performance on the part of the player (e.g. standing in fire / taking avoidable damage [like those Hour of Twilights...]).

OR, perhaps, another way of doing this would be to follow Superbleeder's suggestion:

i would like to see some kind of performance bonus to role, but not like player x does more than player y so he gets a bigger bonus. But like a minimum barrier where if you do more than it, you get a bonus, if you do less you dont.


These incentives would encourage better performance in LFR (giving it your all). If a player puts more effort in, they would have a larger chance of winning an item. This would make the entire LFR experience better.



I welcome any and all suggestions and comments to my ideas on the LFR loot distribution system. I think that enhancing roll bonuses based on need would be easy to implement (one workday). Enhancing roll bonuses based on performance would be a little trickier to tackle, but still very doable.
Edited by Tagie on 2/27/2012 5:52 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Human Mage
2745
I agree with the first part, but not the performance part. There are just way too many variables for that to work fairly. And I disagree with not getting a role bonus if you have better gear. There are people who want set bonuses and every set they can get for their class, it's unfair not to allow them that right just because someone else in the raid has worse gear than they do. However there's nothing I hate more in LFR than seeing someone role and get a bonus on a piece of LFR gear they already have.
Reply Quote
85 Human Warrior
6435
The problem with the 'already equipped' etc. is that some classes dual wield weapons and two of the weapon may be better than one.

Lets take for instance the souldrinker. If I was SMF (which I'm not but just an example) two one handed swords that do extra DPS and give me some life back would be awesome to have. Therefore I would want to win the roll twice.

I could see it 'maybe' for items that are unique-equipped but for most items including tokens it's unreasonable. I want the tier pieces for both my sets not just one.

By your reasoning if I go in as DPS in my fury set which has no tier gear I shouldn't even get to roll on the items because of the fact that I have the items for my protection set.
Edited by Somalyyn on 2/27/2012 4:30 PM PST
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Priest
3990
02/27/2012 04:23 PMPosted by Zyne
I agree with the first part, but not the performance part. There are just way too many variables for that to work fairly. And I disagree with not getting a role bonus if you have better gear. There are people who want set bonuses and every set they can get for their class, it's unfair not to allow them that right just because someone else in the raid has worse gear than they do. However there's nothing I hate more in LFR than seeing someone role and get a bonus on a piece of LFR gear they already have.


Thanks for commenting. Let me see:

And I disagree with not getting a role bonus if you have better gear. There are people who want set bonuses and every set they can get for their class, it's unfair not to allow them that right just because someone else in the raid has worse gear than they do.


I understand the need for set bonuses. My suggestions are currently that if you have that piece, you don't get that roll bonus. I never said that if you roll on gear that you don't have (namely tier gear for the bonus), you wouldn't get the roll bonus even if you have a better item (e.g. tier head vs a generic VP head). Basically, as long as you don't have the item, you will get the roll bonus.

I agree with the first part, but not the performance part. There are just way too many variables for that to work fairly.


The performance part is definitely trickier to implement. I don't think it would be too hard to add, though. You don't have to get a large roll bonus based on performance, but something should be given. Even if a player was outgeared by another, they wouldn't be at too much of a disadvantage if the roll bonus was small and item level discrepancies weren't taken into consideration.
Edited by Tagie on 2/27/2012 4:33 PM PST
Reply Quote
1 Night Elf Druid
0
Translation: I lost roll on content. Blizzard plz fix so I win rolls on content.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
12090
Blizzard will never automate loot council. It's good that you care enough to think through a suggestion, but this just won't happen.

Also, some people need the same item for multiple specs/roles. Tier tokens and feral druid leather come to mind immediately.

Also, if you base it on performance, I will make sure not to heal anyone who shares my tier tokens.

If you only count performance while alive, I will blow all my cooldowns to heal or DPS a whole lot, then suicide when they run out.

Is that really what you want?
Edited by Kathuckae on 2/27/2012 4:39 PM PST
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Priest
3990
The problem with the 'already equipped' etc. is that some classes dual wield weapons and two of the weapon may be better than one.

Lets take for instance the souldrinker. If I was SMF (which I'm not but just an example) two one handed swords that do extra DPS and give me some life back would be awesome to have. Therefore I would want to win the roll twice.

I could see it 'maybe' for items that are unique-equipped but for most items including tokens it's unreasonable. I want the tier pieces for both my sets not just one.

By your reasoning if I go in as DPS in my fury set which has no tier gear I shouldn't even get to roll on the items because of the fact that I have the items for my protection set.


The problem with the 'already equipped' etc. is that some classes dual wield weapons and two of the weapon may be better than one.

Lets take for instance the souldrinker. If I was SMF (which I'm not but just an example) two one handed swords that do extra DPS and give me some life back would be awesome to have. Therefore I would want to win the roll twice.

I could see it 'maybe' for items that are unique-equipped but for most items including tokens it's unreasonable. I want the tier pieces for both my sets not just one.


I see. That would be an issue with 2-slot items like trinkets, rings, and weapons that are not unique equipped. Checks for that could be done easily as well (check how many occurrences of the item that player has and take that into consideration. If they have 2, don't give them a roll bonus. If they have less than 2, give them a roll bonus).

By your reasoning if I go in as DPS in my fury set which has no tier gear I shouldn't even get to roll on the items because of the fact that I have the items for my protection set.


You should be able to roll on items that you need for your protection set, but you shouldn't be able to get a roll bonus for it. Why? There may be other people that actually need it for their main spec in LFR. Giving it to you would be depriving them of their main spec gear. MS > OS, remember that!

If you really wanted that protection item in LFR, you could build up a tank set by running Hour of Twilights and queuing up as a tank. You don't need a high item level to tank LFR.
Edited by Tagie on 2/27/2012 5:28 PM PST
Reply Quote
85 Human Warrior
6435
You totally missed what I said in my last sentence.

I have multiple LFR items on my tanking set. I also have a fury spec with 0 LFR items. If I was to go into LFR as fury by your reasoning I should not be able to roll on items that are for my fury set if I have the same item for my tanking set. I don't gem / enchant items the same way with my fury set as I do with my tanking set plus with tier items they are different items after I turn in the token.

What about if I run LFR as prot for the first half and win say the chest token then run the second half as fury before turning the token and another chest token drops and I need it for both sets should I get the roll bonus or not ? I've now ran as two different rolls and both need the item which is identical in both cases but I have one on my person or in my bank already.

See it's not so 'cut and dry' when you start to think about it is it ?
Reply Quote
60 Troll Hunter
11600
02/27/2012 04:04 PMPosted by Tagie
Player has loot already equipped/bank/inventory/void storage


02/27/2012 04:38 PMPosted by Tagie
If you really wanted that protection item in LFR, you could build up a tank set by running Hour of Twilights and queuing up as a tank. You don't need a high item level to tank LFR


These two things don't mix. So even if I queue in my OS by your reasoning because I already own gear for it I'm not eligible for it.
Reply Quote
100 Draenei Paladin
14410
You should be able to roll on items that you need for your protection set, but you shouldn't be able to get a roll bonus for it. Why? There may be other people that actually need it for their main spec in LFR. Giving it to you would be depriving them of their main spec gear. MS > OS, remember that.


Why is your main spec more important than my off spec? We both contributed to killing the boss. In fact, as the tank, it's possible that I contributed more. And I need a viable offspec for the many, many fights that only require one tank.

Taking that further, if it's ok for tanks, why isn't it OK for everyone else?

Also, you're under the misconception that people need gear at all. Gear does not cure diseases, pay heating bills, or feed the hungry; no one NEEDS it. People WANT gear. Why is your want of gear better than my gear want?


Last, as your thread continues, you keep adding more and more rules to your proposed "one workday fixes" to LFR. Maybe you see that it's not actually THAT simple to 'fix' everything, or at the very least, your idea of fixes isn't everyone's.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Priest
3990
02/27/2012 04:36 PMPosted by Talino
Translation: I lost roll on content. Blizzard plz fix so I win rolls on content.


That's funny because I currently need no items from LFR. It's more of an improvement to benefit others in this tier of progression rather than me.

Blizzard will never automate loot council. It's good that you care enough to think through a suggestion, but this just won't happen.

Also, some people need the same item for multiple specs/roles. Tier tokens and feral druid leather come to mind immediately.

Also, if you base it on performance, I will make sure not to heal anyone who shares my tier tokens.

If you only count performance while alive, I will blow all my cooldowns to heal or DPS a whole lot, then suicide when they run out.

Is that really what you want?


Blizzard will never automate loot council. It's good that you care enough to think through a suggestion, but this just won't happen.


This isn't a loot council. It's simple checks that aren't hard to implement. Calculating roll bonuses for items that you need is trivial. Calculating roll bonuses for performance is a little harder, but still relatively easy. I bet that everyone's played a game at some point in their lives that gives them a 'score' at the end of a level based on how they did.

Also, some people need the same item for multiple specs/roles. Tier tokens and feral druid leather come to mind immediately.


Not too hard to take into consideration.

Also, if you base it on performance, I will make sure not to heal anyone who shares my tier tokens.


That will impact your performance. You will perform worse compared to other healers. This will be counter productive to getting your gear.

If you only count performance while alive, I will blow all my cooldowns to heal or DPS a whole lot, then suicide when they run out.


That's a wild assumption. It makes no sense for your performance to count only while you are alive. It is more natural to assume that it takes into consideration the entire fight...

Is that really what you want?

Yes, that is truly what I want. Your assumptions, as is, are largely unmerited and make little to no sense!
Edited by Tagie on 2/27/2012 4:50 PM PST
Reply Quote
100 Draenei Paladin
20285
02/27/2012 04:04 PMPosted by Tagie
these changes could be added in a couple days time
Hhahahahahhahahahhaahahaha.


I am pretty sure that this is already in place, but I believe that there was an exploit before (not sure if it is fixed) where a person could respec during rolls and get the bonus for that spec (e.g. a Paladin who was Holy could respec to Retribution during a roll and get the roll bonus for say a DPS trinket even though they entered LFR as a Healer). Implemented currently as a Roll bonuses += 100.
There is nothing in the game that looks at spec for the purposes of rolling. If you are flagged as a DPS, you get DPS role bonuses. If you are flagged as a healer, you get healer role bonuses. Same goes for tanks.



Player has loot already equipped/bank/inventory/void storage => If this is true, a player should not get a roll bonus on that drop. Simple to implement. Implement by removing all roll bonuses (Roll bonuses = 0).
Player has better version of loot => If a player has the normal or heroic versions of the LFR item that dropped, they should not get a roll bonus on that drop. Also simple to implement. Implement by removing all roll bonuses (Roll bonuses = 0).



These changes would make rolls more fair than they currently are. This would discourage groups of friends queuing together and rolling on gear that they do not need and giving it to a buddy. It would also eliminate needing on tokens and gaining roll bonuses for offspec gear.
Think of it this way:
For one of my characters that uses an offset, I can still roll on the tier piece that I don't use, as long as I never trade it in to the vendor. For my characters that don't use a 4pc, maybe even a really undergeared alt I never plan on playing, I can roll on anything and everything, as long as I get rid of the item before I run the next LFR.

02/27/2012 04:04 PMPosted by Tagie
I'm sure that internally you, Blizzard, have ways of obtaining information about average damage and healing done for each class role per fight. Additionally, there are also ways of looking at the item level of a player and taking that into consideration when giving out this extra bonus. For DPS and healers, as long as the player meets this average damage and healing done, they could earn extra roll bonus points. If they exceed the average by a lot, they earn more points. Likewise, if they are way below the average, they would not earn as much extra roll bonus points.
Thankfully we don't have a single encounter in the game that involves something like stopping healing/DPS for some amount of time in order to do the encounter properly. Nope, not one!

02/27/2012 04:04 PMPosted by Tagie
For tanks, it's a little different. As long as the tanks can keep aggro and do not die (stay alive for most of the fight), they should be able to accrue roll bonus points. You could take into consideration the average damage taken for each tank/DPS/and healer per encounter. Higher damage taken usually implies poorer performance on the part of the player (e.g. standing in fire / taking avoidable damage [like those Hour of Twilights...]).
Lol.

Translation: log on your Blood DK if you want to win loot rolls.
Edited by Corpsetwo on 2/27/2012 4:54 PM PST
Reply Quote
85 Human Warrior
6435
Being that you've ignored my posts about the first part I'll move on to your idea that performance should impact rolls.

Two healers go into looking for raid. One has the bare minimum ilevel and one has mostly heroic raid gear but has a couple slots just below LFR gear.

An item drops for one of those slots. Now the overly geared player gets another bonus ???

The only performance measurement should be : Did the boss die, if yes allow rolls.

What do you base performance on ? Should I, as a tank, be penalized on tier token drops cause I have low DPS ? Should a healer that has been focusing on a tank with high avoidance that is taking very little damage be penalized cause they didn't have to heal as heavy as the healer that was keeping up people that stood in the fire ? Should a DPS that doesn't do as well on AoE get penalized cause the fight was AoE heavy ? etc. etc.

Again ... too many variables.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Priest
3990
First off, many people are over complicating things and making unmerited assumptions. It's going to be hard to address every issue in this thread, but I'll do my best.

I'll try to dissect Somalyyn's post:
I have multiple LFR items on my tanking set. I also have a fury spec with 0 LFR items. If I was to go into LFR as fury by your reasoning I should not be able to roll on items that are for my fury set if I have the same item for my tanking set. I don't gem / enchant items the same way with my fury set as I do with my tanking set plus with tier items they are different items after I turn in the token.


I don't even understand your argument here. Again, taking tier pieces into consideration wouldn't even be that hard. They would be a little more difficult to handle.

Here's a situation that illustrates the loot distribution: Let's say a head tier token drops. Since you queued up as a DPS and don't have the DPS head piece, you would get the roll bonus. It doesn't matter that you have the tanking head tier piece. You queued up as DPS and don't have the DPS head piece. By my logic, you would get the roll bonus still.

What about if I run LFR as prot for the first half and win say the chest token then run the second half as fury before turning the token and another chest token drops and I need it for both sets should I get the roll bonus or not ? I've now ran as two different rolls and both need the item which is identical in both cases but I have one on my person or in my bank already.


This is definitely an interesting situation to consider. Ideally, you would have converted that chest token into a tanking chest piece. Now that you queued up as fury for the second part of LFR and the chest token drops given that you don't have the DPS chest piece, you should get the roll bonus.

However, having a token already in your bag would cause for an interesting way to handle this. There are always corner cases. To reduce abuse, I personally wouldn't give you the roll bonus. It seems like it's more of an oversight on the part of yourself to exchange the token into a piece before queuing up for LFR again.

02/27/2012 04:47 PMPosted by Helagoth
You should be able to roll on items that you need for your protection set, but you shouldn't be able to get a roll bonus for it. Why? There may be other people that actually need it for their main spec in LFR. Giving it to you would be depriving them of their main spec gear. MS > OS, remember that.


Why is your main spec more important than my off spec? We both contributed to killing the boss. In fact, as the tank, it's possible that I contributed more. And I need a viable offspec for the many, many fights that only require one tank.

Taking that further, if it's ok for tanks, why isn't it OK for everyone else?

Also, you're under the misconception that people need gear at all. Gear does not cure diseases, pay heating bills, or feed the hungry; no one NEEDS it. People WANT gear. Why is your want of gear better than my gear want?


Last, as your thread continues, you keep adding more and more rules to your proposed "one workday fixes" to LFR. Maybe you see that it's not actually THAT simple to 'fix' everything, or at the very least, your idea of fixes isn't everyone's.


The spec that you queued in is the spec you get roll bonuses for. It's selfish to consider that you should get a roll bonus for an item that you do not need for the current spec that you are doing LFR for. There probably is a player in that same raid that does need that roll bonus on the spec that they are currently in LFR for.

Also, I don't keep adding more and more rules to my LFR suggestions. I mainly explained the logic of what I meant to individuals who commented on this thread. The only "true" thing that I had not considered was unique-equipped items and non-unequipped items. That's quite easy to fix.

Again, I don't mean to belittle the amount of work this may take, but as a programmer myself, I know that at LEAST implementing the "need" portion of my suggestions would take little to no effort. It's a couple of extra loops and an extra variable to boot.
Reply Quote
1 Human Priest
0
i would like to see some kind of performance bonus to role, but not like player x does more than player y so he gets a bigger bonus. But like a minimum barrier where if you do more than it, you get a bonus, if you do less you dont.


as for the rest of the suggestions, im pretty strongly against anything that's limiting people from rolling on things they want(that they can actually use). Theres plenty of reason why someone might want 2 of an item or an item that is "worse" than what they have. and various other things.

the biggest loot issue in LFR right now,imo, is things like shadowpriests/boomkins not being able to roll on spirit offhands/rings. With things like boomkins being able to roll on agi gear as a distant 2nd problem. The rest is mostly just people being greedy and self entitled.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Priest
3990
Being that you've ignored my posts about the first part I'll move on to your idea that performance should impact rolls.

Two healers go into looking for raid. One has the bare minimum ilevel and one has mostly heroic raid gear but has a couple slots just below LFR gear.

An item drops for one of those slots. Now the overly geared player gets another bonus ???

The only performance measurement should be : Did the boss die, if yes allow rolls.

What do you base performance on ? Should I, as a tank, be penalized on tier token drops cause I have low DPS ? Should a healer that has been focusing on a tank with high avoidance that is taking very little damage be penalized cause they didn't have to heal as heavy as the healer that was keeping up people that stood in the fire ? Should a DPS that doesn't do as well on AoE get penalized cause the fight was AoE heavy ? etc. etc.

Again ... too many variables.


Don't expect instant replies. I addressed your previous post just recently, be patient.


Two healers go into looking for raid. One has the bare minimum ilevel and one has mostly heroic raid gear but has a couple slots just below LFR gear.

An item drops for one of those slots. Now the overly geared player gets another bonus ???


That's why you would consider item level with performance as I had already mentioned in my original post. This would only occur if you didn't take into consideration item level.

But let's argue that item level wasn't taken into consideration. If the more geared healer needed that raid finder item and didn't have it, why should they not get a higher roll bonus for it? They obviously did more for the raid. It might be a larger upgrade for the undergeared healer, but this player will be able to pick up every other LFR item that the overgeared healer who is missing only 1 slot won't need. Again, as mentioned before, roll bonus on performance would be SMALL. It would encourage performance, but not eliminate competition. Even if there was a +30 roll bonus for the overgeared healer, the undergeared healer can still win the item. Chance is still taken into consideration.


What do you base performance on ? Should I, as a tank, be penalized on tier token drops cause I have low DPS ? Should a healer that has been focusing on a tank with high avoidance that is taking very little damage be penalized cause they didn't have to heal as heavy as the healer that was keeping up people that stood in the fire ? Should a DPS that doesn't do as well on AoE get penalized cause the fight was AoE heavy ? etc. etc.

Your arguments make no sense:
=> Why would tanks be penalized for low DPS? I explained how an adequate judgement for tanks would be: damage taken/keeping aggro/not dying unless fight was nearly over.
=> One healer won't be penalized on a tank that has high avoidance. Every healer would be effected by this and thus their role bonuses would be unaffected. Performance only matters relative to others. If you aren't pulling your weight, you shouldn't get a higher bonus. Simple as that.
=> Averages and bonuses would be per encounter. Simple as that. If your class/role struggles with a certain encounter, don't fret: your role bonus should be unaffected as the aggregate damage for your spec would reflect that.
Edited by Tagie on 2/27/2012 5:27 PM PST
Reply Quote
85 Human Warrior
6435
I haven't healed in a raid since TBC but when I did I was playing a shaman and healing the DPS in the group with a strong main tank. My healing was generally 6-7 times what the main tanks healing was. How do you account for something like that ? What measurement do you use for who gets your 'role bonus'.

Coding this would not be a 'workday' it would be a complete overhaul of all the mechanics and a nightmare for any coder.

What about RNG factors ? What if I, as a tank, got unlucky and got hit by all the 'big damage' abilities from a boss whereas the other tank got lucky and dodged / parried them when they were tanking the boss on trade offs ? Should I be penalized cause I took more damage than they did ?

How do you determine 'pulling your weight' ? What about casters in a fight where they get silenced a lot where the DPS does multiple times the damage they do with the same iLevel ?

Again too many variables and I'm just pulling them off the top of my head.

As a healer can I sit there spamming my biggest heal on myself to get my HPS to an insane amount to get the bonus or will it have to take into account more variables ?

The more complicated you make it (which you seem to insist would be easy coding which tells me you haven't done large project coding before much less small project coding) the more chances for issues to pop up.

Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Priest
3990
I haven't healed in a raid since TBC but when I did I was playing a shaman and healing the DPS in the group with a strong main tank. My healing was generally 6-7 times what the main tanks healing was. How do you account for something like that ? What measurement do you use for who gets your 'role bonus'.

Coding this would not be a 'workday' it would be a complete overhaul of all the mechanics and a nightmare for any coder.

What about RNG factors ? What if I, as a tank, got unlucky and got hit by all the 'big damage' abilities from a boss whereas the other tank got lucky and dodged / parried them when they were tanking the boss on trade offs ? Should I be penalized cause I took more damage than they did ?

How do you determine 'pulling your weight' ? What about casters in a fight where they get silenced a lot where the DPS does multiple times the damage they do with the same iLevel ?

Again too many variables and I'm just pulling them off the top of my head.

As a healer can I sit there spamming my biggest heal on myself to get my HPS to an insane amount to get the bonus or will it have to take into account more variables ?

The more complicated you make it (which you seem to insist would be easy coding which tells me you haven't done large project coding before much less small project coding) the more chances for issues to pop up.


You are mainly disagreeing with the performance analysis of my original post. I agree that this wouldn't be extremely as simple as the need analysis. I guess I wasn't clear in differentiating between the two.

Enhancing roll bonuses in LFR based on need is trivial.
Enhancing roll bonuses in LFR based on performance is not.

I believe that roll bonuses based on need is easy to implement (that's one workday). Roll bonuses, however, based on performance will require more thought.

Superbleeder comes up with a great suggestion (a minimum threshold). If you can't make the minimum, you shouldn't get an additional bonus. This would help reduce the chance of AFKers, botters, or people who disconnected for the majority of the fight in getting loot from the boss.

I intended this thread to be discussion based. So far, it's going swell. A lot of people are openly talking about concerns and their own ideas. I never once claimed to know all the answers or be 100% right. But something really should be done about the LFR loot distribution system!
Edited by Tagie on 2/27/2012 5:49 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
14475
02/27/2012 04:36 PMPosted by Talino
Translation: I lost roll on content. Blizzard plz fix so I win rolls on content.


Translation: Too lazy to read past the first 2 lines, so will throw out a canned one-line response demonstrating my ignorance. You should work in customer support.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Warrior
16800
02/27/2012 06:41 PMPosted by Lusignan
Too lazy to read past the first 2 lines, so will throw out a canned one-line response demonstrating my ignorance


And whiners we shall be,
MY LOOT! No loot for me,
My loot, it slipped 'way from my hands,
To the forums! For justice, I demand:
A river of tears shall flow forth unto thee,
And teaming with Q's shall it ever be.

I want a Vishanka,
Souldrinker,
And that Gurthalak thing.


I read the entire thing.

I was nodding along until I hit the part about performance. As much as I make fun of casuals, I like to see them get loot too, mostly because the majority of them really are having fun with LFR. I don't let a vocal minority ruin my experience, nor do I let a few trolls ruin my day. Most of them really do want to have fun, and in LFR, they are.

Furthermore, I don't judge low DPS: maybe it's someone being lazy, maybe it's a casual on his main who's trying his best who's never been to a raid but can't measure up against some guy playing his fifth alt who's run his alt through a ton of calculators and sims. I'm not in any position to make that sort of judgement, but to introduce bonuses and sanctions based on 'performance' will chase away players who we think are pretty bad.

The key here is "bonuses and sanctions based on 'performance' will chase away players."

That works fine in normal raiding, but this is LFR, the last stop for people who can't - or don't know how - to get into a raiding guild. The standards are set as low as they can conceivably go, and I'm utterly opposed to any changes in the system that are designed to intimidate any players with honest intent - no matter how messed up their spec, gear, or skills - from playing. That's like telling people they're not fit to ride on the bus after they've paid their fare. I have no qualms about throwing out the guy who pisses on the seats or the idiot who tries to sell transfers, but you don't throw out the old lady in the wheelchair because she smells funny.

If they need to get better to finish an encounter, that's one thing. If they need to get better to be allowed to fairly roll on loot, that's another. RNG is as fair and democratic as it gets, even if it gets gamed to hell and back.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]