Issue - Darkmoon Faire

85 Night Elf Rogue
9150
03/04/2012 12:01 PMPosted by Vancortlandt
I suspect that they CAN restore the progress, but it's more work (money!) than they're willing to put into it. If so, saying "we are not able" is a lie.


Regardless of why they are unable to restore the achievements, it does not change the fact that someone has either made a decision that has rendered those with ability to restore them without permission to do so, or that a limitation to coding is preventing them from doing so. Thus making the word "unable" entirely appropriate.

It's so counter-productive to play "Hah! Gotcha! You were lying!" in situations like this. This isn't a schoolyard dispute. There is nothing for Blizzard to gain by collectively lying about the issue when the player-base will be equally as upset as if they told the truth straight up. They aren't a malicious entity trying to put one over on you.
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90 Gnome Mage
12940
The major problem I have now is that I finally agreed to pay big money for some of these and today on the ah EVERY single one is 2k gold or higher except for like soothsayers ruins. And the imbued weapon there's about 10 up there for 8k gold and they know people will pay it because they want to finish the achievement so it doesnt reset again but I don't want to pay 30k for this achieve. 10k was a stretch once and twice but nowo 40k for the 3rd month?

Edit: I understand people are upset about the achieve resetting and stuff. but people should NOT be profiting off this because it doesnt reset if you complete it. I think if you got it and are locked in it should be erased too lol. that way no one buys the objects and people can't gouge the prices and be you know what's.
Edited by Taylerswifft on 3/4/2012 12:23 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
13935
If some self important Blizz type should happen by:

Could you please pass this up your chain of command...

Blizz, you have now reset the Darkmoon acheivements twice. Is it with in your ability to fail less and just perhaps find a way to fix this? I PAY YOU for quality entertainment. Not some half assed, thrown together mish-mash of cow dung. There is already enough of that in the online world. I am not a fan of liars... and you did lie to us last month whe nyou said you fixed it.

Respectfully,
Edited by Cetane on 3/4/2012 12:26 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
15285
This is crap. I agree with Alkasha's post. Winter veil/Love is in the air etc all say 'During the feast of winter veil' or 'During Love is in the air'. Change the achievements so they say this too so people know they need to do it at once or just don't allow turn in's until its fixed. This is the second time they have been reset on me and the second time i'm being told 'sorry, too bad'.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
17300
Don't lie straight to our faces.


A lie would indicate that they knew it was not fixed and chose to tell us it was. That is not the case here. They believed they fixed the issue last month. I'm not trying to soften the blow for you or anyone else who had the achievement reset, but there are no lies being told here.


So they told us it was fixed, when it wasnt, and this is justified because they thought they had actually fixed it? That just speaks levels of incompetence then.

We were told the issue was fixed.

The issue was not fixed.

That is a lie.

Regardless of why they are unable to restore the achievements, it does not change the fact that someone has either made a decision that has rendered those with ability to restore them without permission to do so, or that a limitation to coding is preventing them from doing so. Thus making the word "unable" entirely appropriate.


They can restore gear you had deleted on accident, they can restore an entire character if it was deleted....but they can't restore an achievement? Yeah, keep believing that.
Edited by Satrina on 3/4/2012 12:37 PM PST
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85 Night Elf Rogue
9150
03/04/2012 12:26 PMPosted by Cetane
and you did lie to us last month whe nyou said you fixed it.


No, they didn't.

As someone who has 20 years of troubleshooting electrical systems under their belt, I can tell you that it is quite common in any field to believe you have effectively fixed a problem or issue (and having tested that fix as thoroughly as one is able) only to have it rear its ugly head again after you have left.

The word "lie" does not come within a million miles of describing this.

Don't misinterpret what I'm saying, though. You have every right to be upset. But this isn't an issue that is remotely related to Blizzard's honesty.
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85 Night Elf Rogue
9150
03/04/2012 12:36 PMPosted by Satrina
That is a lie.


No. It is not. A lie must be accompanied by an intent to deceive. The issue here is that whatever fix they believed was implemented was not effective. That is not a lie. If you want to speak to their competency, that is certainly within your discretion.

03/04/2012 12:36 PMPosted by Satrina
They can restore gear you had deleted on accident, they can restore an entire character if it was deleted....but they can't restore an achievement? Yeah, keep believing that.


You're comparing apples to oranges. Restorations are performed by GM's with a tool kit created for them by the developers. Within that tool kit is a folder for your character that contains deleted items for a finite amount of time. When you request a restoration of a deleted item or character, the GM's go into that folder and perform the restoration back to your character of OF your character.

The GM's have no tools that allow them to manipulate data relating to most achievements. That requires going into the live game coding on a developmental level. That is generally something they are unable to do except for circumstances where the achievement attempt is not repeatable as there are great risks to manipulating the game data.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
17300
and you did lie to us last month whe nyou said you fixed it.


No, they didn't.
As someone who has 20 years of troubleshooting electrical systems under their belt, I can tell you that it is quite common in any field to believe you have effectively fixed a problem or issue (and having tested that fix as thoroughly as one is able) only to have it rear its ugly head again after you have left.
The word "lie" does not come within a million miles of describing this.
Don't misinterpret what I'm saying, though. You have every right to be upset. But this isn't an issue that is remotely related to Blizzard's honesty.


Then either you didn't fix the actual problem with your electrical systems, or there was another problem you didn't diagnose. All you're doing is stating there is a grey area, where they lied...but it wasn't so much a lie. When in actuality, the way they told us it was fixed was in the way that there was, without a doubt, no issue left and everything had been taken care of.

When you troubleshoot systems and fix an issue, then find out the issue occurred again a month later what do you do? Especially if you told your customer it was 100% fixed. Do you sit there and go over the technical reasons as to why it could have happened again, explaining to them that it wasn't actually a lie, it was just an assumption. That's not going to go over very well with a paying customer, who expected everything to be set and fixed as you told him.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Restorations are performed by GM's with a tool kit created for them by the developers. Within that tool kit is a folder for your character that contains deleted items for a finite amount of time. When you request a restoration of a deleted item or character, the GM's go into that folder and perform the restoration back to your character of OF your character.


There are plenty of ways for them to be able to backtrack and look up the data they need to see if you completed certain parts of an achievement as i'm sure they tick off certain parts until the whole is completed, wherein the achievement is rewarded. That's why the graphical interface displays the parameters as green, indicating that you have successfully completed that part of the whole.

We have tons of achievements that do this in game, the rest don't reset on you after a month if you don't fulfill the parts of the whole, so why this one? It's obviously tied into the fact that the monthly quests reset for the event as a whole.
Edited by Satrina on 3/4/2012 12:49 PM PST
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85 Night Elf Rogue
9150
03/04/2012 12:46 PMPosted by Satrina
Then either you didn't fix the actual problem with your electrical systems, or there was another problem you didn't diagnose.


Obviously. But that still does make me a liar as I did not deceive, not did I intend to deceive the customer. It makes me wrong. Nothing less, nothing more.

03/04/2012 12:46 PMPosted by Satrina
Do you sit there and go over the technical reasons as to why it could have happened again, explaining to them that it wasn't actually a lie, it was just an assumption. That's not going to go over very well with a paying customer, who expected everything to be set and fixed as you told him.


No, because I have never had a customer call me a liar. Not in twenty years. When people deal with each other face to face and have the accountability of being known to each other, people rarely make accusations and behave the way they do in video game forums.

There are plenty of ways for them to be able to backtrack and look up the data they need to see if you completed certain parts of an achievement as i'm sure they tick off certain parts until the whole is completed, wherein the achievement is rewarded. That's why the graphical interface displays the parameters as green, indicating that you have successfully completed that part of the whole.

We have tons of achievements that do this in game, the rest don't reset on you after a month if you don't fulfill the parts of the whole, so why this one? It's obviously tied into the fact that the monthly quests reset for the event as a whole.


No doubt. I'm not attempting to fall on my sword for Blizzard here, just trying to separate the issue from hyperbole.
Edited by Wichasha on 3/4/2012 12:52 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
17300
Then either you didn't fix the actual problem with your electrical systems, or there was another problem you didn't diagnose.


Obviously. But that still does make me a liar as I did not deceive, not did I intend to deceive the customer. It makes me wrong. Nothing less, nothing more.


In the eyes of the customer, you lied. Justify it anyway you want, but this is how your customer feels. You can sit there and debate it rationally to them, but they will still regard you as the guy who lied about what he had done.

No, because I have never had a customer call me a liar. Not in twenty years. When people deal with each other face to face and have the accountability of being known to each other, people rarely make accusations and behave the way they do in video game forums.


Sure to your face, like you said. Who are you to say what that customer actually thought of you, or how he referenced you towards business partners. If anything, forums like this open up the ability to hurl accusations in both negative and positive ways and opens up a company like Blizzard to far more critique.
Edited by Satrina on 3/4/2012 12:52 PM PST
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85 Night Elf Rogue
9150
03/04/2012 12:50 PMPosted by Satrina
In the eyes of the customer, you lied. Justify it anyway you want, but this is how your customer feels. You can sit there and debate it rationally to them, but they will still regard you as the guy who lied about what he had done.


I'm not justifying anything. I'm stating a fact. You've underscore the point very well here:

this is how your customer feels


I can understand someone feeling lied to. But one must eventually be rational and acknowledge that lies are not being told. It does not mean people aren't held accountable for their actions or that they shouldn't be subject to criticism. As a contractor, I took my failings when they surfaced personally. I went through great lengths to make sure my customers did not ultimately feel cheated once the issue was finally resolved.

In regards to this issue, hanging your hat on Blizzard lying is only creating angst that can not be dealt with by anyone in a rational way as it is a purely emotional response and not a factual one.
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85 Goblin Shaman
1485
03/04/2012 01:01 PMPosted by Wichasha
I'm not justifying anything. I'm stating a fact.


I know you are well intentioned but...let it go. You defending Blizzard on this is making it worse.

People have worked hard for these achievements. Twice.
Blizzard has said the issue is fixed. Twice.
Blizzard was wrong. Twice.

Arguing semantics over what is a "lie" and what they are "unable" to do isn't helping. Let people vent. People have a right to be upset over this.

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90 Undead Warlock
12915
Even if they couldn't "give achievement credit", they could certainly give us all who have lost 8 quests' worth of progress the 8 quest items needed to complete the achievement.

Problem solved.
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90 Human Warrior
11095
yeah, mine reset last week. Didn't submit a ticket because I was hoping that it would give me credit once the Faire began.

The post said that the fix for DMF was for March. I had thought they fixed it for February's Faire. I bought some artifacts for the achievements and turned them in last month hoping that this time they would stick; they didn't. I've always had the achievement for the BGs artifact turn ins but at least one of them never showed up in the overall artifact achievement.

I turned in other artifacts for the other two achievements, they were credited in their respective categories but disappeared before February's Faire began. If I remember correctly, they said that if we turned in artifacts during February's Faire we wouldn't have to turn them in yet again every month for credit. Those I turned in (again) during February's Faire disappeared during last week.

My main has turned in ALL of the items.

Obviously, they can't find out what is causing these problems, and their assurances are no longer creditable to me. I won't turn in anymore of the artifacts as collecting them is a waste of time and money. This has really spoiled my enjoyment of the Faire.

Can someone post any information on whether they said they were fixing this problem for February or March's Faire? My memory is that they said they were fixing the problem in February's Faire, but now they are saying that they said they were fixing it for March's.

Further, I had seen no information prior to the reply to my ticket (which I put in yesterday) or this Blue post that they were clearing the achievements for February. Why would they clear them" If the achievements had cleared themselves through a bug, there would be no need for Blizz to clear them. It sounds as if Blizz directly caused the clearance of the achievements' progress, rather than a simple bug. They didn't have any reason to clear something that wasn't broken.
Edited by Rodolfblanne on 3/4/2012 5:26 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
17595
Even if they couldn't "give achievement credit", they could certainly give us all who have lost 8 quests' worth of progress the 8 quest items needed to complete the achievement.

Problem solved.
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85 Worgen Mage
3730
well doesnt that just suck, typical screwed something up but cant fix it senario, yes I rage!
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
17595
03/04/2012 12:26 PMPosted by Cetane
Blizz, you have now reset the Darkmoon acheivements twice.


3 Times by my count. The first DMF was in Dec. It was reset in Jan, Feb and Mar. Last time after a GM asured me that it was fixed I went ahead an did as much as I could on 2 characters. I got all of them but the treatise.
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90 Night Elf Druid
14390
Blizzard,

thanks for updating us on the problem.

I would much rather have the acheivement points reset instead of potentially losing the chance of stopping these quests from being a monthly turn-in, and reduce the number of tickets I can earn toward the new mounts/pets, transmog gear each month.

Mounts/pets/gear you can use in game >>>>>> achievement points you can't even see unless someone looks your toon up on armory.

And the multiple items I need to turn in? I'll continue to do what I do each month.. farm for them or buy them off the AH with my worthless outside of game currency.

I seriously doubt the price of these changed that much do to the 'chieve bug, especially since people buy them month after month.

Keep up the good work!

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