PVE Gear

85 Human Paladin
8540
03/06/2012 04:35 PMPosted by Seraphys

This is the only option, imagine if weapons like Dark Edge still existed in todays PVP world...

I can still beat people in duels with that weapon on the proc alone.


Excalibur on Final Fantasy XI used to deal 25% of the user's current health as added damage on melee swings.

Yea, buddy. Almost as strong as Legendary Daggers.


loljk ambush 30k on plate.

:(
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90 Night Elf Druid
19490
In the end there are really only two options in regards to procs and on use effects that aren't direct, raw stats, assuming that the development team continues to make these things too powerful.

1 - Disable them in PvP

2 - Nerf them in PvP

For example, if Cunning procced half as often and did half damage when PvP flagged, it would be much, Much, more reasonable.

Sure, it might not be great in PvP anymore, but that's why the developers made multiple PvP trinket options. And made them farmable.


I think they might have learned their lesson with Vial of Shadows. that was way op. Hopefully they will not have trinkets that do so much burst, but rather have them do sustained dps. That makes them good in both pve and pvp
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85 Human Warlock
8780
I think they might have learned their lesson with Vial of Shadows. that was way op. Hopefully they will not have trinkets that do so much burst, but rather have them do sustained dps. That makes them good in both pve and pvp

They should have learned their lesson with DBW and UHW.

Didn't seem to do much cause they turned around and made VoS and CotC.
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85 Human Paladin
8540
03/06/2012 04:38 PMPosted by Seraphys
Oh wait jk even clothies take less damage.


I remember when Rogues were scared of Warriors.

Those were simpler times...

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90 Draenei Shaman
10410
As a Shaman, there is one passive skill called Mail Specialization I get when I wear mail armor in all armor slots. That type of specialization is a de-facto for any non-clothy since the primary attribute increase is way too valuable to be dismissed, especially when health pools exceed 200k on tanks and mana pools are over 120k for the average caster.

What would it be to have PVE and PVP specializations to become the de-factos of both world? Am I pushing this too far? Has this topic already been discussed (I looked, couldn't find any)? What would happen if I'm only 50% efficient in any of these specializations if I'm not wearing all PVP or all PVE items in all of my armor slots? Wouldn't it encourage people to farm gear if getting into LFR required PVE Specialization plus a minimum iLvl requirement (in PVE ofc)?

Now you'll tell me "but if I want to PVP and I don't have PVP gear". You reach the maximum level doing mostly PVE right? Why couldn't you farm that "basic" PVP set with Justice points? Let's say a grand total of "just" 4000 points @85 (or even some gold or rewards from "world" events like TB and WG) to get the whole set of PVP items to get you started, a PVP set that would still be above any PVE sets when doing PVP.
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90 Troll Death Knight
16070
:(

Couldn't you just say 30k to a Clothie, because thats pretty much what Find Weakness reduces us to?

Oh wait jk even clothies take less damage.


If you think about it when their daggers go in us they penetrate the armor and leave our wounds gaping open because our plate armor folds in on itself.
In this case, yes, Cloth is better than Plate. :(
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Community Manager
03/06/2012 04:16 PMPosted by Areos
-- Do you intend for legendary weapons to be best in slot for PvP classes capable of using them? If so, wouldn't this be contradictory to the design philosophy behind this change?


Answered a bit earlier.

03/06/2012 04:16 PMPosted by Areos
-- When you state that PvE gear will have a higher item level than "equivalent" PvP gear, are you referring to normal or heroic raiding gear?


Perhaps I misunderstood the question? I'm referring to gear, in general. If we were to compare introductory PvE gear with introductory PvP gear, the PvP gear would have a lower item level, but would be stacked with lots of 'free' PvP Power and Defense that don't count against that items item budget. In reality, it would be just as, if not more powerful than the equivalent PvE item, but exclusively for the purposes of PvP.

03/06/2012 04:16 PMPosted by Areos
-- What do the developers plan to do with PvP trinkets in order to make them best in slot for PvP again? Insignias and Emblems are underpowered in PvP while proc-based trinkets like Vial of Shadows and especially Cunning of the Cruel are far too powerful.


I know what the design intention is, but I don't have any specific examples to hand. It might even still be a bit too early to have specifics. Still, I'll ask and see if I can't expand on this a bit.

03/06/2012 04:16 PMPosted by Areos
-- Have you ever considered implementing a stat on PvE gear that's reminiscent to PvP Power and Defense, but for PvE scenarios? For example, a stat that increases damage dealt to non-player characters only?


In a way, this is already the case. There are stats that are of great value in PvE that are extremely sparse in PvP items, and also extremely weak in PvP. Hit is a good example.
Edited by Daxxarri on 3/6/2012 4:52 PM PST
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85 Draenei Shaman
10970
I don't understand why people are considering this to be a negative. This is the best news I have heard in a while and will most likely keep me playing into Mists.

Everyone seems to be overly concerned about specific trinkets interacting in PvP when there is going to be an overhaul to pvp itself. Maybe trinkets will not be a huge gamebreaking item anymore, maybe the pvp ones will actually scale in a pvp setting to be equal.

Please don't turn this thread into the current issues with PvP because there are hundreds of them already on this form. I feel like I have a grasp on what the changes are going to bring but please ask him questions about the future of the game instead of complaining about current pvp.
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90 Human Warlock
12060




Perhaps I misunderstood the question? I'm referring to gear, in general. If we were to compare introductory PvE gear with introductory PvP gear, the PvP gear would have a lower item level, but would be stacked with lots of 'free' PvP Power and Defense that don't count against that items item budget. In reality, it would be just as, if not more powerful than the equivalent PvE item, but exclusively for the purposes of PvP.


I'm not sure I understand this response. For example, right now their is one tier of PvP gear per season, and multiple tiers of PvE gear (lrf, normal, heroic). When you say PvP gear will be lower ilvl, but be better for PvP purposes than PvE gear, what PvE gear is that in reference to.

Is conquest point PvP gear going to be lower ilvl than lfr PvE gear? Is conquest point PvP gear going to provide more overall damages against other players than heroic PvE gear will?
Edited by Embräce on 3/6/2012 4:57 PM PST
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90 Human Warlock
14385
Currently, we are able to gem into resilience. Will we be able to gem into these new PvP stats? How about reforging? Thanks for the info.
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85 Draenei Shaman
10970
Is conquest point PvP gear going to be lower ilvl than lfr PvE gear? Is conquest point PvP gear going to provide more overall damages against other players than heroic PvE gear will?


I think you are asking the wrong question when it comes to Ilvl. The Ilvl will be inconsequential if the PvP gear is going to be better in the PvP scenario. For example, already now the Heroic Raid Gear provides more damage verse PvP targets than the PvP Gear. The difference is that you won't be able to take the hits you need to when pvping with the raid gear.

The PvP Gear will likely do the same or more than the Heroic Raid Gear verse other pvp targets, all the while being able to sustain the damage that you will more than likely take in pvp.
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90 Human Paladin
12770
03/06/2012 04:46 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Perhaps I misunderstood the question? I'm referring to gear, in general. If we were to compare introductory PvE gear with introductory PvP gear, the PvP gear would have a lower item level, but would be stacked with lots of 'free' PvP Power and Defense that don't count against that items item budget.


I'm probably not being clear on what I'm asking.

Raiding currently now has three different tiers of gear levels per raid; raid finder, normal and heroic quality gear. Throughout Cataclysm, the average item level of your typical PvP gear has rested in between normal and heroic raiding gear. At the start of the expansion, normal raiding gear was 359 and heroic raiding gear was 372, and PvP gear had at 365 ilvl. During Firelands, normal raiding gear was 378 and heroic raiding gear was 391, and PvP gear was at 384 ilvl. In Dragon Soul, the current raid, normal raiding gear is 397 and heroic raiding gear is 410, and PvP gear sits at 403.

What I'm confused about regarding this difference in item level is whether normal or heroic gear will have a higher item level than the equivalent PvP gear for the season. Will PvP gear (of the current season) have a higher item level than normal raiding gear but lower than heroic raiding gear, like it is today? Or will normal and heroic raiding gear have a higher item level than the up-to-date PvP gear of that season?

Sorry if you still don't understand what I'm asking, but it's a question that's been lingering in the back of my head ever since the developer blog.

03/06/2012 04:46 PMPosted by Daxxarri
I know what the design intention is, but I don't have any specific examples to hand. It might even still be a bit too early to have specifics. Still, I'll ask and see if I can't expand on this a bit.


Any updated information on this would be greatly appreciated.

03/06/2012 04:46 PMPosted by Daxxarri
In a way, this is already the case. There are stats that are of great value in PvE that are extremely sparse in PvP items, and also extremely weak in PvP. Hit is a good example.


Fair enough. I guess it's just a matter of wait-and-see before I can ask further questions regarding itemization. Hopefully the March press release gives us a good serving of information regarding this.
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