Cataclysm Post Mortem -- Dungeons and Raids

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90 Tauren Druid
15945
Just read it. He lost all credibility when he said

Many players use Raid Finder...just because it’s fun.


Sorry, but you're completely out of touch with your playerbase.

However, thanks for enlightening us all as to why Cataclysm failed so miserably.

For those of you that keeping calling for GC's head, let's go for Scott “Daelo” Mercer instead. If we can get a new lead encounter designer that realizes that LFR is terrible, DS is the worst raid in the game, and both Deathwing encounters were close to the worst fights in the game, maybe we can take a turn back to Vanilla dungeons and raiding and rekindle the spark of imagination that made this game popular to being with.

EDIT: Reposted for those of you asking for some elaboration (Post 119).
Edited by Savario on 3/5/2012 8:29 PM PST
90 Goblin Rogue
12660
Here at Activision we like to release statements so people can't respond and give constructive feedback. Thus, comments are disabled.
34 Dwarf Shaman
150
Just read it. He lost all credibility when he said

Many players use Raid Finder...just because it’s fun.


Sorry, but you're completely out of touch with your playerbase.

However, thanks for enlightening us all as to why Cataclysm failed so miserably.

For those of you that keeping calling for GC's head, let's go for Scott “Daelo” Mercer instead. If we can get a new lead encounter designer that realizes that LFR is terrible, DS is the worst raid in the game, and both Deathwing encounters were close to the worst fights in the game, maybe we can take a turn back to Vanilla dungeons and raiding and rekindle the spark of imagination that made this game popular to being with.
What was so good about vanilla raiding and dungeons? Attunement? Only one spec per class was viable? Be more specific.
34 Dwarf Shaman
150
03/05/2012 07:40 PMPosted by Drìck
Here at Activision we like to release statements so people can't respond and give constructive feedback. Thus, comments are disabled.
Nice one.....but really stick to your day job. IDK why they added comments anyhow when the forums are so much better.
90 Orc Shaman
12290

Just read it. He lost all credibility when he said

Many players use Raid Finder...just because it’s fun.


I did laugh at this pretty hard when I read it; woke up my girlfriend who proceeded to throw a pillow at me.

Many players use LFR for Valor, nothing more. There's no fun or lasting appeal after the first trip through DS. LFR may be a great tool, but it was implemented on the worst raid this game has seen since its retail release.
85 Troll Hunter
7950
Yes Spine was awful because I hated it! Please stop with this ridiculous argument. It's an opinion and just as many people you can say hated spine others can find those who liked it. Do not ever generalize something like that.

Also to the rogue above at how WOW raids are designed I'm surprised people always keep expecting more. Everybody has the right to expect more but too much shouldn't be drawn from it.


It's not just "ew I don't like the fight." Designing a fight where the most important aspect of it is an 18s burst window is TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE design. It makes your raid comp incredibly biased towards classes that can do a high amount of burst,(lolrogues lolmages) while severely punishing classes that have a slow and steady amount of DPS without cooldowns.
90 Night Elf Hunter
19180
2 things stuck out in this interview...

HoT hit the sweet spot: Ok, they're not AS difficult as the other cata dungeons, but good GRIEF! They're waaay too easy. ZA/ZG were a bit of a wipe fest, but... I dunno... HoT just didn't seem challenging enough..

We want to do more encounters like the spine: NO NO NO NO NO NO... and... NO!

Spine was probably the weirdest and strangest boss design EVER, and not in a good way.

"Ok guys, bring the amalg to 20% and then wait for bloods... Gather bloods! Ok plop the guy near the plate, ok it explode... DPS GO GO GO!" Repeat that 3 times and you win. It was challenging for the healers, sure, but it just didn't feel like it was the most amazing thing that came outta Cata. =/

The best boss fight in Cata, imo, is probably Ragnaros. It's challenging, there's fire ALL OVER the freakin' place to avoid, chaos EVERYWHERE. Everybody has to be on their toes in order to succeed, and that's what a fight should be.

85 Undead Priest
3470
I still find it funny that no one has even mentioned that they might of improved over the years, but no it's all Blizzards fault, and everything is too easy, and blizzard has no idea what they're doing...even though they listened to the player base, and this is what we got.

Good job guys. You reap what you sew.
85 Gnome Warlock
2590
Didnt see one response on anything PVP related. Kinda sucks blizz clearly doesnt give a crap about PVP. They balance end game PVE and pretty much nothing else matters.
90 Tauren Paladin
13955
Just read it. He lost all credibility when he said

Many players use Raid Finder...just because it’s fun.


Sorry, but you're completely out of touch with your playerbase.

However, thanks for enlightening us all as to why Cataclysm failed so miserably.

For those of you that keeping calling for GC's head, let's go for Scott “Daelo” Mercer instead. If we can get a new lead encounter designer that realizes that LFR is terrible, DS is the worst raid in the game, and both Deathwing encounters were close to the worst fights in the game, maybe we can take a turn back to Vanilla dungeons and raiding and rekindle the spark of imagination that made this game popular to being with.


That sounds like a great idea. Lets regress to a raiding environment where mechanics were mind numbingly simple. so much IMAGINATION. Hey there's a dragon. Tank it with your back to the wall. Hey there's another dragon. Tank it with your back to the wall. Hey there's another dragon. Tank it with your back to the wall. Hey there's another dragon. Tank it with your back to the wall.
85 Troll Hunter
7950
03/05/2012 07:53 PMPosted by Hammin
Didnt see one response on anything PVP related. Kinda sucks blizz clearly doesnt give a crap about PVP. They balance end game PVE and pretty much nothing else matters.


They'll (hopefully) have another big separate post on PVP.
90 Draenei Shaman
13090
03/05/2012 07:38 PMPosted by Maigraith
Because if you could skip them, everyone always would, and there'd be no point to having it in the first place.


Which is why it's bad game design to be there in the first place. If it's BORING it should be able to be skipped or not there at all, and they should find a better, more fun way of doing it.

03/05/2012 07:38 PMPosted by Maigraith
I guess it's just personal preference, but I thought BWD was a dull, visually bland cave with no lore significance or aesthetic appeal. It was the opposite of epic; it was a place to get loot, and nothing more.


BWD having no "lore significance" isn't a fault of BWD - why it's significant in lore isn't even available in game. The storytelling should come outside the raid, so the raid itself can offer you a fun GAMEPLAY experience with meaning, not a series of cutscenes and poorly written chatter by NPCs between fights.
Dragon Soul force feeds you lore. Sinestra augmented an encounter with lore. There's a huge difference here, the first fails and the second succeeds. I don't think watching cutscenes should make you feel like a hero. I sure don't feel like a hero when I watch a movie.

Do you think the kid who got 7th place in a competition of 7 people should get a trophy? I, personally, have experienced both ends - while in elementary school I was usually near the top, occasionally I wasn't, and when I wasn't I sure as hell didn't want a trophy to advertise. You are a hero because you stepped into Dragon Soul? Congrats, I guess...
I feel like a hero when I overcome impossible odds, which isn't the case when I have god-like dragon aspects at my side, and Thrall saying "heroes!" every 7 seconds gives me a similar feeling as the 7th place trophy did.
Edited by Ashunera on 3/5/2012 8:00 PM PST
85 Worgen Death Knight
4395
Blizzard, no, HoT is a bit too easy. The mechanics are awesome, and they don't need to be changed, they just need to hit harder. They NEED one-hit kills. My memory may be faulty, but I believe Echo of Sylvanas is the only HoT boss with a one-hit kill.

General Umbriss, Erudax, Slabhide, Asaad, and Echo of Sylvanas were the best heroic bosses this expansion, simply because if you didn't fight them correctly you would die. And you wouldn't be able to blame your death on the healer or anything but your own failure. That's what heroics should be.
Edited by Icydemise on 3/5/2012 8:00 PM PST
85 Orc Shaman
12530
So they think that overall, the raids and dungeons in cata turned out pretty well and that the major hitch seemed to be difficulty. That conclave and spine were some of their 'better' encounters. That big, impossible to miss text warnings of incoming threats is a good thing.

Anyone else even more worried about the pve content of mists now than they were before? Perhaps encounters in the future will have an associated text warning with every mechanic. I'm almost feeling like raiding this time next year will involve more reading than playing.


Pretty much just like boss mods.
90 Orc Shaman
12290
03/05/2012 07:52 PMPosted by Schierke
.even though they listened to the player base, and this is what we got.


They listened to the vocal minority. Not the majority of the player base.
90 Troll Druid
11620
03/05/2012 06:10 PMPosted by Styill
Hour of Twilight dungeons hit the sweet spot in terms of difficulty? May god have mercy on us all.

You need to consider doing said dungeons in 359 gear, which would be a whole lot more of a challenge.
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