DS 10 man or 25 man

86 Dwarf Death Knight
3160
Any guilds out there short a tank for the Hour of Twilight raids?
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85 Goblin Mage
1395
The fact that you duel wield as blood scares me.
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86 Dwarf Death Knight
3160
It worked in t11 ~shrugs~, and doing good so far.
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85 Goblin Mage
1395
It works, but by that logic a rogue can also tank a heroic. Dual wield tanking is extremely suboptimal and has been since wrath. Based off of that I would assume you certainly don't research your class so you may not be the ideal choice for somebody who wants a dragonsoul tank.
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86 Dwarf Death Knight
3160
At the risk of starting a needlessly long thread about the differences, do you know what the trade off is between DW and 2h? Before I took a hiatus I ran about 3 mos worth of raid logs and compared them with other DKs of similar gear to get the numbers. DW less damage more healing less damage taken. It is considered suboptimal because most cutting edge guilds want to squeeze every iota of DPS to prevent that 1-2% wipe.

Edit: I prefer to expend less healer mana so its available for when someone who doesnt know the fight messes up.

As far as someone looking for a DS tank, I know my class I have been playing it for a while(minus the aforementioned hiatus for hospitalization and recovery) and have tanked most of the current content. I missed out on FL.
Edited by Ruryk on 3/7/2012 12:10 PM PST
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85 Draenei Shaman
2870
If you switch to tanking with a Two hander in blood, and aren't convinced that Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps is a tanking weapon

I wouldn't mind giving you a try as a tank.

But to be honest, In Dragonsoul, at least on Veco, Most raid groups appreciate the extra damage blood tanks deal

All tanks have to worry about is getting their unhittable up. Blood just needs to focus on mastery to reduce overall damage

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86 Dwarf Death Knight
3160
I actually just gave away LFR Gurthalak to a friend last week.

I have a two hander for people that dont like the fact that I DW tank. I dont like using it since its old, but I will work this week on getting a newer one. Im currently using an avoidance build which DW favours. If you dont mind ill add you to my list so we can talk next time we are both in game. I mean hell its just a style difference, if its thats what it takes to get into a raid ill go ahead and change.
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The Guardians are looking for a main tank for a second 10man raid. We don't mind if you 2h or dw tank, as long as you know when you use your cds and you can hold agro off of the rest of the raid. Feel free to contact me in game and we can go over it if you would like.
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85 Undead Rogue
5885
Blood is lower mitigation. Go read any topic on the DK forums, or Elitist Jerks. Dual Wield leads to lower death strikes, less damage, less mitigation, lower blood shield... It's very, very suboptimal. And Gurth sucks for tanking too!

I think if you get 2x Heroic Souldrinkers you MIGHT be able to dual wield tank, but other than that there's no way you can ever do it.

I am Saibaman btw.
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86 Dwarf Death Knight
3160
You do know that Blood Shield is completely independent of damage right? If you do a mastery build and DW there is no difference in the shield. The general break down in the difference of style is, you get smaller individual strike, but with SoB you get more RP which allows for more RS which means more Runic Empowerment procs. If you do an avoidance build and DW you can get higher avoidance because of the availability of tank weapons.

Another point I hadnt known until last night the 2 piece bonus from the FL tier gear, stacks once for each weapon. Which is a pretty nice bonus for DW if you are still using it.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
15230
Overall, if you're not wanting a guild to toss you into the B group, you probably will need to adjust your play style. I understand DW tanking used to work, but with how game balance changes, it is best to keep up to date on the optimal rotations/specs/gearing if you really want to get into progression (Well, VeCo progression anyways) raiding. :)

However, with that in mind... We're trying to get a second raid group going as well, and we're not aiming to have it an A and B team. We'd be splitting it up to make sure both groups can progress as much as possible during the week. I don't believe in stacking raids and, more often then not outside of attempting heroics, we do swap people in and out weekly to make sure everyone gets some raiding time in till the second group gets off the ground. Our raid nights are Tuesday and Thursday, 6pm ST - 9pm ST. We have three tanks currently, you'd make a fourth, but one of those does have a DK tank that could offer advice/help on gearing choices.
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86 Dwarf Death Knight
3160
Sounds good, Ismeralda ill send you a tell next time I am online.

The avoidance build I am using is going to be changed since mastery pulled far ahead during the time that I was away. When I was raiding before it was up for discussion still.
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86 Blood Elf Death Knight
16895
Quoted from some math thread on EJ:
Settings in BloodSim are taken from Zarko's excellent thread on tank stats at Tier 11 (World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> What we look like after one tier of raiding) and damage based on wielding 372 weapons.
- 175,685 health, 32.36% avoidance, 46841 armor, 21 mastery
- Boss hits every 2.4 seconds for 110k-120k unmitigated damage
- 100 eight minute fights

Difference in switching from 2H to DW:
- 7.9% less damage dealt
- 9.8% less threat
- 0.1% less damage taken
- 0.7% less damage absorbed
- 1.1% more healed


Yeah the numbers are for 372 gear, but that's a closer approximation to your current gear anyway, not to mention I can't imagine the breakdown becomes any more favorable to dw at higher gear levels. So, if you want to continue to deal less damage, generate less threat (ALL of your abilities take into account your mh weapon damage only), and basically be a less efficient tank then by all means continue to dw. Otherwise you may want to look into a proper spec.
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86 Dwarf Death Knight
3160
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2657516081?page=1

Here is a thread, full of theory craft math, and other absurdity. It talks about why the EJ numbers were wrong, and exactly what is lost and gained by DW. In threat and damage DW is less, but since when has threat been even remotely a concern this expansion?
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90 Night Elf Rogue
15230
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2657516081?page=1

Here is a thread, full of theory craft math, and other absurdity. It talks about why the EJ numbers were wrong, and exactly what is lost and gained by DW. In threat and damage DW is less, but since when has threat been even remotely a concern this expansion?
Threat is actually very important at the start of a fight. Unless you want the DPS to hold off for 5-10 seconds and... Well, you can't really afford to do that anymore unless you have top end DPS,and if you have top end DPS, you'd probably expect the best performance from the tank, too.

I'll use an example: I used to know a healer in TBC that refused to use or spec into Circle of Healing. So while the other healers in the raid carried her, she constantly tried to be the special snowflake of the group. She never understood that she was hurting the raid progression to be unique just for the sake of being unique. Don't be that person. If you can get it to work, that's great and all, but that doesn't mean you're putting out the best performance you can be.
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86 Dwarf Death Knight
3160
The only time I have had a DPS pull off me in a fight is when they hit the boss before I even have put down DnD. There are just to many things that allow you to gain a huge threat lead early on now. Add on to all the tank skills things like Tricks of the Trade and Misdirection, and there is no reason for a properly done pull to ever get taken in the first little bit of the fight.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
15230
03/09/2012 07:53 AMPosted by Ruryk
The only time I have had a DPS pull off me in a fight is when they hit the boss before I even have put down DnD. There are just to many things that allow you to gain a huge threat lead early on now. Add on to all the tank skills things like Tricks of the Trade and Misdirection, and there is no reason for a properly done pull to ever get taken in the first little bit of the fight.
Exactly how long does it take for you to get DnD down? If it's an end of the rotation thing, I can say honestly that is too long of a wait, if it's instant, I can say you're not going to generate the threat needed to keep it off of a DPS without Tricks/MD, which is a problem.
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86 Dwarf Death Knight
3160
Its the second thing I drop but not until the boss is in position. It happened with a PUG DPS on ODS.
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85 Human Paladin
2030
People are just trying to help out, Ruryk. You mentioned wanting to do DS. DS is pretty much the first ever raid, that just about every fight has a mild to high DPS requirement.

Most raids progressing on normals and heroics, Usually have issues hitting the enrage timer.

In some fights, tanks tanking in partial DPS Gear is used.

Dual Wielding as a Blood just isn't that Viable. The Threat needs to be there, the Damage needs to be there

Healing isn't that much of an issue. The only bosses that even remotely destroy tanks is Warmaster and Zon'ozz to an extent. Hagara if you're wearing concrete blocks for shoes


Be a true blood DK, don't make VeCo suffer anymore then it has
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85 Undead Rogue
5885
With DW you have a higher miss chance. Since tanks aren't hit capped (since taunt can no longer miss) you can get a streak of a couple missed Death Strikes. I remember tanking Ragnaros on my DK and missing two DS's at the beginning of the fight... a dps pulled from me and died. Threat is an issue. Don't be unique for the sake of being unique - every good DK tank agrees that DW tanking is suboptimal.

I had never realized that thread was made by you. I had read it when I first got into DK tanking last tier. Just read the comments and don't be blind to what they're saying. They're not criticizing you. They're telling you that what you think is a good idea is a bad idea. Trust them.
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