Oh Dear...

90 Blood Elf Warrior
17110
I certainly hope so, dude. Reading that article actually made me a bit angry.
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90 Human Death Knight
10870
Well, I like parts of Spine.

I was doing to edit this when I could come up with something specific I like about it but I can't actually think of anything. I guess the idea that handling bloods on the third plate is different from the first plate by virtue of how they spawn, rather than an arbitrary "phase change" is kind of fun. Rather than having Phase 1, Phase 2 etc you have to handle the mechanics differently based on what's happening and the current state of the encounter.
Edited by Yarrthas on 3/5/2012 10:42 PM PST
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90 Draenei Warrior
14560
I think the main message here;

Nobody likes fights entirely 100% around adds.

Yogg-Saron had adds - Whole fight wasn't around it.
Rag had adds - Whole fight wasn't around it.
Lich King had adds - Whole fight wasn't around it

Deathwing?
LOL HAVE SOME ADDS.
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85 Dwarf Warrior
13030
I think the main message here;

Nobody likes fights entirely 100% around adds.

Yogg-Saron had adds - Whole fight wasn't around it.
Rag had adds - Whole fight wasn't around it.
Lich King had adds - Whole fight wasn't around it

Deathwing?
LOL HAVE SOME ADDS.


To be fair on Yogg, we fight 30% of yogg while controlling adds, much like DW, we only fight 20% of DW, while controlling adds.
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Yea, that quote was hard to swallow I'm sure. Spine was a huge disappointment, as was madness. Spine doesn't do a good job AT ALL of making you feel like you're on his back or flying. Hell, they could have made that fight a lot better just by making deathwing talk more during the fight. We blow a huge plate off his back and he doesn't even react to it, it seems. Such little interaction with him. Also, the flips should have been something that happens randomly instead of being player controlled. That's another thing that really took away from the experience. If we were really on his back, he'd be going ape!@#$, rolling and trying to get us off.


Firelands was an amazing raid though. Our guild had crazy roster issues and a tough time there, but I thought it was a brilliant raid. Awesome boss fights. The way it was built like a zone instead of a dungeon. Spawning shannox was a pretty cool mechanic, though it took WAY too much trash killing to spawn him. But the trash was also pretty interesting, as trash goes. Definitely was a throwback to MC.
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85 Tauren Paladin
8680
I think the main message here;

Nobody likes fights entirely 100% around adds.

Yogg-Saron had adds - Whole fight wasn't around it.
Rag had adds - Whole fight wasn't around it.
Lich King had adds - Whole fight wasn't around it

Deathwing?
LOL HAVE SOME ADDS.


To be fair on Yogg, we fight 30% of yogg while controlling adds, much like DW, we only fight 20% of DW, while controlling adds.



Yogg's adds were dynamic to the point that it required the entire raid's focus and attention, not mindlessly dpsing targets one after another.
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85 Human Paladin
11570
well let's look at Spine because being such a ... different fight... some parts are good.


algamations...good.
bloods...good.
the way these two come together is nice.
corruptions...good.
tendons...not good.

what I'd have preferred is something like yogg'aron phase 1.

you blow up algamations by the tendon and that's how you dps the tendon. with the nuclear explosion. no plate lifting, just plate nuking. basically make the tendon visible, holding the plate but not attackable...so the nuclear explosions themselves do %dmg to the tendon based on the strength of the blast. 9-stacks=50%. 1-stack = 5%. 8-stacks=40%. (bonus 10% increment from 8 to 9 rather than the usual +5%).

really the whole fight is okay minus the tendon part. working with bloods and algamations and rolling the boss is kinda fun. tendons themselves are yuck.

yogg'saron phase 1. with nuclear blasts. that's all we had to do.
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90 Night Elf Druid
14955
well let's look at Spine because being such a ... different fight... some parts are good.


algamations...good.
bloods...good.
the way these two come together is nice.
corruptions...good.
tendons...not good.

what I'd have preferred is something like yogg'aron phase 1.

you blow up algamations by the tendon and that's how you dps the tendon. with the nuclear explosion. no plate lifting, just plate nuking. basically make the tendon visible, holding the plate but not attackable...so the nuclear explosions themselves do %dmg to the tendon based on the strength of the blast. 9-stacks=50%. 1-stack = 5%. 8-stacks=40%. (bonus 10% increment from 8 to 9 rather than the usual +5%).

really the whole fight is okay minus the tendon part. working with bloods and algamations and rolling the boss is kinda fun. tendons themselves are yuck.

yogg'saron phase 1. with nuclear blasts. that's all we had to do.


You're missing:

/tar deathwing /cast Moonfire doesn't work on Spine....ever. Spine feels like 10-12 minutes of trash mobs.

Yogg P1 was like a prequel to get you out of the insanity dream. P2 you can attack his brain. P3 you actually attack him. The adds are just aspects of the fight...they aren't 100% of the fight.

I despise LFR and Normal Spine. It's a pitiful fight. On Heroic...the fight feels the exact same except you have to execute faster...aka higher HPS and DPS.
Edited by Närwhal on 3/5/2012 11:41 PM PST
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85 Human Paladin
11570
well...i like to think of the Deathwing fight as both spine and Madness together and ...cant blame Spine for the fact that madness also sucks and its an addfight. that's Madness' fault.

Spine I see just as an intro to Madness...and it's almot ok at that. you really dont dps yogg'saron directly until phase 3...and since I'm a tank, I never tanked yogg'saron either. He never hit me and I never blocked his attacks etc.


Madness P3' and yogg'saron P3 are kinda alike for dps...its phases 1 and 2 that were great for yogg and sucky for DW. (counting spine as P1 if we're looking at 3-phase and aspect-madness as P2).

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90 Undead Warrior
15325
As a tank who has the most interesting job on Spine, I have a completely different perspective than most players who have commented in this forum. I enjoy Spine very much, and I love my kiting role in the fight. Hell, when the 20% nerfs roll out, I will still probably kite because I just love running around Deathwing's back like a little b****.


:O I didn't realize people still kite the bloods....then again you are a warrior tank. Our bear and Paladin can just man up and sit there.


No reason not to kite. It makes the fight a whole lot easier. I'm sure if I really wanted to I could "man up" and tank everything in the middle, but my healers would hate me for that.

Also, you're a 10 man guild (NOT TRYING TO START A 10 V 25 DEBATE. I KNOW MADNESS IS HARDER ON 10 MAN HEROIC) so the mechanics of the fight probably don't require kiting with the nerfs.
Edited by Freese on 3/6/2012 12:04 AM PST
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85 Orc Shaman
3575
Like others have said, we never fight Deathwing. We run a trash gauntlet for however long it takes to pry crud off his back. Then we fight some twisted tentacle thing while praying
Thral doesn't troll us by having his winds bug out. Then on top of that, for killing the big bad boss of the expansion, he turns into a firework. A rather weak one at that.

I can understand they were trying to do something "epic" but it just fell way short of that.
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85 Human Paladin
11570
no, it's a very basic and amateurish MMO mistake...or any video game mitake for that matter.

deathwing phase 2...no arms, no legs, no wings, not even a head entirely. ure there's adds but lets focus on deathwing itself. We're fighting him...he's not fighting us.


beating up a quad-amputee simply isn't heroic. He looks like you can leave him there and he'd die on his own, doesnt he?
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85 Human Paladin
6300
heroic omnotron - well designed fight
heroic cho'gall - well designed fight
heroic nefarian - a little boring tbh
heroic sinestra - red buff was nice

heroic ryolith - I remember when we first started him on heroic - he looked like a kid with his shoelaces tied together. Sometimes he'd go a little left, sometimes a little right, and sometimes he'd flip around where he was facing in a quarter of a second. STOP DPS EVEN HIM OUT(I fcking hate those words).
heroic alysrazor - dumb and easy
heroic beth - well designed fight
heroic ragnaros - well designed fight, one of the best fights in the game

heroic ultraxion - here quick let's make a 25 man enrage timer that requires you to class stack mages and rogues if you want a world fast kill (oh yeah, druids can't shred, you'll be sitting for this one)
heroic spine - annoying btch of a fight.
heroic madness - a joke. Completely boring fight I almost fell asleep.

Do you see now blizzard? You need to design fights that have simple, easy to understand mechanics (no hopping debuffs that transform into other debuffs that then give a buff, on top of the fact my grid is already CLOGGED with searing plasma+grip+aggro plates from the 9999999999999999999999 bloods that deathwing spawns out of his back).

and you do still have to kite on 25 man h spine. Not doing so would result in a nice 1 shot
Edited by Misery on 3/6/2012 8:22 AM PST
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85 Human Paladin
11570
heroic alysrazor is fun to tank..."hey, stop eating my worm. it was my worm. nah uh. he ate my worm again!"

/loved it.
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Spine is the most boring fight imo.

I have never felt that I was on his back. I teleport to a room, parachute down, only to be teleported out once done. Wings flapping, sky vortexing like Deathwing is Neo rushing to save his woman. It feels like some bad movie, editing stock footage together to trick you into thinking a basement is a submarine. The barrel roll is just Deathwing casting typhoon at the raid.
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
17110
Yeah, the teleport thing... Look, I wanted to surf Deathwing from the moon.
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