2.2kToo High for Arena Weapons Post MMR Reset

80 Undead Warlock
13480
I didn't know EGC still existed.
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90 Human Mage
5640
You're using numbers from the past and thinking they mean something in the present.


Blizzard is also using numbers from the past.... 2200 this season is an out of date requirement with rating deflation

1500 being the point where your cap goes up is out of date this whole expansion and the last one for that matter. 1500 hasnt been the midline since season 3 and it can be debated if it ever was. They just chose 1500 since that is where mmr starts for teams AND since that is where teams started up to season 5. A blue post flat out admitted that the average team was lower the tune of low 1400s.

the 2v2 2200 meta is out of date also for arena master.

TLDR blizzard's arena standards in multiple examples are sorely out of date and need to be looked at
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85 Human Paladin
8855
04/07/2012 07:12 AMPosted by Sabrinakyle
You're using numbers from the past and thinking they mean something in the present.


Blizzard is also using numbers from the past.... 2200 this season is an out of date requirement with rating deflation

1500 being the point where your cap goes up is out of date this whole expansion and the last one for that matter. 1500 hasnt been the midline since season 3 and it can be debated if it ever was. They just chose 1500 since that is where mmr starts for teams AND since that is where teams started up to season 5. A blue post flat out admitted that the average team was lower the tune of low 1400s.

the 2v2 2200 meta is out of date also for arena master.

TLDR blizzard's arena standards in multiple examples are sorely out of date and need to be looked at


If you stopped complaining on this forum every single day you could probably hit 2200. The rating requirement is fine, 1500 is fine, if you can't hit 1500 I dont even have words to express my sense of pity for you.
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90 Human Mage
5640
Blizzard is also using numbers from the past.... 2200 this season is an out of date requirement with rating deflation

1500 being the point where your cap goes up is out of date this whole expansion and the last one for that matter. 1500 hasnt been the midline since season 3 and it can be debated if it ever was. They just chose 1500 since that is where mmr starts for teams AND since that is where teams started up to season 5. A blue post flat out admitted that the average team was lower the tune of low 1400s.

the 2v2 2200 meta is out of date also for arena master.

TLDR blizzard's arena standards in multiple examples are sorely out of date and need to be looked at


If you stopped complaining on this forum every single day you could probably hit 2200. The rating requirement is fine, 1500 is fine, if you can't hit 1500 I dont even have words to express my sense of pity for you.


I was replying to the other persons post. Radej here is the clue train and the next stop is you

I dont want your pitty. I stopped doing arenas last week.

I get it you are an elitist. You are a superior person to me. Here is your cookie good sir.
Edited by Sabrinakyle on 4/7/2012 8:40 AM PDT
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85 Human Paladin
8855
Elitist would be me saying HAHA you ca't hit 2500 you're bad, but you're complaining about 1500.....

I literally hit 85 on a Shaman on Friday and did shaman/lock with a friend who just recently hit 85, we're both in straight blues/leveling gear, have 110k health and 1500 resil and wwent 8-3 at 1500 mmr, beating full cata geared dk/pally mage/rogue whatever, that !@#$ is mindblowing to me.

1500 is a joke, but spending time on these forums is eye openeing because you're the reason this game is so imbalanced, you make up the majority and you are who this game is balanced for.
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90 Human Mage
5640
Elitist would be me saying HAHA you ca't hit 2500 you're bad, but you're complaining about 1500.....

I literally hit 85 on a Shaman on Friday and did shaman/lock with a friend who just recently hit 85, we're both in straight blues/leveling gear, have 110k health and 1500 resil and wwent 8-3 at 1500 mmr, beating full cata geared dk/pally mage/rogue whatever, that !@#$ is mindblowing to me.

1500 is a joke, but spending time on these forums is eye openeing because you're the reason this game is so imbalanced, you make up the majority and you are who this game is balanced for.

I broke 1500 not that it matters and has nothing to due with I am trying to put across. I am done arguing with you.
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85 Human Rogue
8805
Going back to the original reason of this post:

2200 is absolutely not too high for T2 weapons. Yeah, not as many people have it this season it seems, but that's good, it makes them more prestigious for those who are able to get T2. Obviously there's FOTM comps that can get it easier, but name one season when there wasn't a FOTM. I'm happy about this change. Now all the !@#$ty players are being shown how %^-*ty they are. T2 shouldn't be a 'I pvp, I deserve the best gear!!!' thing, it should be a 'I have learned how to play this game and have earned the best weapons through increasing my gameplay' ... Just my 2 cents.
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85 Human Warrior
5155
yo dawg.... It used to be 1800 for first weapon... 2200 for T2... Clearly you forget
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85 Undead Mage
6885
A blue post flat out admitted that the average team was lower the tune of low 1400s.


El Oh El. Yeah maybe that's true. But did you think about teams that just havent played enough games to be higher than that? Last night my team was playing at a 2200 mmr but we stopped playing when we got to about 1350. So doesnt that mean we count as part of that average? That's just flat out stupid to go by that... "oh okay, theyve only played 5 games and are at 450 rating. guess we need to lower the point cap change"
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90 Human Mage
5640
04/07/2012 12:53 PMPosted by Hydrothunder
A blue post flat out admitted that the average team was lower the tune of low 1400s.


El Oh El. Yeah maybe that's true. But did you think about teams that just havent played enough games to be higher than that? Last night my team was playing at a 2200 mmr but we stopped playing when we got to about 1350. So doesnt that mean we count as part of that average? That's just flat out stupid to go by that... "oh okay, theyve only played 5 games and are at 450 rating. guess we need to lower the point cap change"


What the exact average is we dont know cause we dont have all the raw data to figure that out.
But for what I have seen recently in terms of title cutoffs and whatnot keeps my faith that 1500 is no longer midline.

I do know that last expansion people were getting challenger with mid 1400 ratings. Granted last expansion your team rating took a lot longer to meet up with MMR.
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90 Human Mage
8070
I just want them to make it so once you get into a new bracket (every 100 rating) you only queue into teams of that bracket. So annoying getting triple dps or counter teams at 1900 when you're 2100 and losing 17 pts and only winning 6-7 a game. Other than that.. 2200 is fine, it's hard but shouldn't it be?
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85 Human Paladin
4435
04/07/2012 07:12 AMPosted by Sabrinakyle
You're using numbers from the past and thinking they mean something in the present.


Blizzard is also using numbers from the past.... 2200 this season is an out of date requirement with rating deflation

1500 being the point where your cap goes up is out of date this whole expansion and the last one for that matter. 1500 hasnt been the midline since season 3 and it can be debated if it ever was. They just chose 1500 since that is where mmr starts for teams AND since that is where teams started up to season 5. A blue post flat out admitted that the average team was lower the tune of low 1400s.

the 2v2 2200 meta is out of date also for arena master.

TLDR blizzard's arena standards in multiple examples are sorely out of date and need to be looked at


No, they're not outdated. 2200 was always meant to be something that is hard to obtain and the majority would not get. There's a reason for ELITE gear.

1500 IS the midline, when I make a character my mmr starts there just like everybody else. Players who are bad will lose and lower their mmr, this is how it should be, players who aren't terrible will win at least a bit and raise their mmr or keep it level, as it should be.

All throughout this thread you've made the statement that "the bottom is dropping out" or whatever, that's simply incorrect, I was getting instant queues at 1 am server time on my feral druid at 1550 mmr on a wednesday, nobody can say that's peak hours. We queued into a lot of teams that were below 1500, and a few above 1500. None of these teams showed this level of skill you act like they have.

If you're bad, you're bad. Don't complain about it on the forums, play the game and try to improve. If you're quitting arenas because of these reasons from this thread than you're an example of a weak minded fool who shouldn't be doing things anyways.


Not everybody will get every achievement, nor do they deserve every achievement. If you can't get things you can't get them, all there is to it. If other people can obtain them in the current state of the game than they're fine.
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I understand what you are trying to say there Mmac, however I disagree with a couple of things:

04/07/2012 10:03 PMPosted by Mmacwins
No, they're not outdated. 2200 was always meant to be something that is hard to obtain and the majority would not get. There's a reason for ELITE gear.


Yep, T2 is meant to be inline with 410 PvE weaps (or are they 416?). This means, according to wowprogress, about 3.75% of pvpers should be getting T2. That basically the very top end of rival and above. I'm think thats great. However, 2200 at the moment ISNT the top 3%. Its more like the top 1-1.5% (yes it will become more as the season drags on).

04/07/2012 10:03 PMPosted by Mmacwins
1500 IS the midline, when I make a character my mmr starts there just like everybody else.


1500 is the start point, Blizzard have stated several times that the median is around 1400. This was when rating was more inflated.

04/07/2012 10:03 PMPosted by Mmacwins
All throughout this thread you've made the statement that "the bottom is dropping out" or whatever, that's simply incorrect, I was getting instant queues at 1 am server time on my feral druid at 1550 mmr on a wednesday, nobody can say that's peak hours. We queued into a lot of teams that were below 1500, and a few above 1500. None of these teams showed this level of skill you act like they have.


Thats how bell curves and ladders work. If it is a normal distribution, nearly 70% of the population will be one std.dev from the median (around 1400). You also have to remember, 1am is getting pretty close to peak time for oceania teams, and I think most of them are on Bloodlust. If you weren't getting instant queues at about 1500 the arena ladder would be in serious, serious trouble.

This whole discussion is about T2 being a little too hard to obtain from arenas and I think you need to have blinkers on to think people are asking it to be given away. As an aside I see you are wearing T2 but have never achieved the rating through arena?

TL,DR: You need to be in the top 1-1.5% to get T2 through arena, top 3,75% to get heroic PvE weapons and I have no idea if a ladder exists for RBGs.
Edited by Unmaime on 4/7/2012 10:22 PM PDT
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85 Human Paladin
4435
I understand what you are trying to say there Mmac, however I disagree with a couple of things:

No, they're not outdated. 2200 was always meant to be something that is hard to obtain and the majority would not get. There's a reason for ELITE gear.


Yep, T2 is meant to be inline with 410 PvE weaps (or are they 416?). This means, according to wowprogress, about 3.75% of pvpers should be getting T2. That basically the very top end of rival and above. I'm think thats great. However, 2200 at the moment ISNT the top 3%. Its more like the top 1-1.5% (yes it will become more as the season drags on).

1500 IS the midline, when I make a character my mmr starts there just like everybody else.


1500 is the start point, Blizzard have stated several times that the median is around 1400. This was when rating was more inflated.

All throughout this thread you've made the statement that "the bottom is dropping out" or whatever, that's simply incorrect, I was getting instant queues at 1 am server time on my feral druid at 1550 mmr on a wednesday, nobody can say that's peak hours. We queued into a lot of teams that were below 1500, and a few above 1500. None of these teams showed this level of skill you act like they have.


Thats how bell curves and ladders work. If it is a normal distribution, nearly 70% of the population will be one std.dev from the median (around 1400). You also have to remember, 1am is getting pretty close to peak time for oceania teams, and I think most of them are on Bloodlust. If you weren't getting instant queues at about 1500 the arena ladder would be in serious, serious trouble.

This whole discussion is about T2 being a little too hard to obtain from arenas and I think you need to have blinkers on to think people are asking it to be given away. As an aside I see you are wearing T2 but have never achieved the rating through arena?

TL,DR: You need to be in the top 1-1.5% to get T2 through arena, top 3,75% to get heroic PvE weapons and I have no idea if a ladder exists for RBGs.


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/pvp/battlegrounds/

There's the RBG ladder.

As you said later in the season 2200 will be closer to 3.75%. PvE and PvP progress at different rates, I don't understand what the point of an 1800 player complaining about T2 being too hard to get. T2 was NEVER 1800, never will be either, T1 was that means if they were to revert it the 397 freebie weapons would require rating. However now everybody gets it.

If this were the case a lot of people complaining wouldn't even get their 397 weapons that they take for granted.

When I started doing arenas and couldn't even get 1500 rating back at the beginning of season 1 I didn't complain, I kept playing trying to improve. If the people complaining would spend less time doing so this game would be a lot better.
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90 Human Mage
5640
04/07/2012 10:03 PMPosted by Mmacwins


Blizzard is also using numbers from the past.... 2200 this season is an out of date requirement with rating deflation

1500 being the point where your cap goes up is out of date this whole expansion and the last one for that matter. 1500 hasnt been the midline since season 3 and it can be debated if it ever was. They just chose 1500 since that is where mmr starts for teams AND since that is where teams started up to season 5. A blue post flat out admitted that the average team was lower the tune of low 1400s.

the 2v2 2200 meta is out of date also for arena master.

TLDR blizzard's arena standards in multiple examples are sorely out of date and need to be looked at


No, they're not outdated. 2200 was always meant to be something that is hard to obtain and the majority would not get. There's a reason for ELITE gear.

1500 IS the midline, when I make a character my mmr starts there just like everybody else. Players who are bad will lose and lower their mmr, this is how it should be, players who aren't terrible will win at least a bit and raise their mmr or keep it level, as it should be.

All throughout this thread you've made the statement that "the bottom is dropping out" or whatever, that's simply incorrect, I was getting instant queues at 1 am server time on my feral druid at 1550 mmr on a wednesday, nobody can say that's peak hours. We queued into a lot of teams that were below 1500, and a few above 1500. None of these teams showed this level of skill you act like they have.

If you're bad, you're bad. Don't complain about it on the forums, play the game and try to improve. If you're quitting arenas because of these reasons from this thread than you're an example of a weak minded fool who shouldn't be doing things anyways.


Not everybody will get every achievement, nor do they deserve every achievement. If you can't get things you can't get them, all there is to it. If other people can obtain them in the current state of the game than they're fine.


First of all if you start to have que times in the 1500 range that would be a sign of a seriously dead ladder. When the largest part of the ladder has que times.... yeah you got a problem. I have encountered it before but not lately. I guess the cross bg que seems to be working now. And what does it have to do with the bottom of the ladder? The bottom of the ladder is much much lower and I have no idea what that rating is.

You have an opinion and i have my own and its blatantly obvious they they differ. By the way I am not the only person saying that these standards are out of date. There have been countless threads about the 2200 2v2 meta achievement and the 2200 weapon requirement. The bottom dropping is out has been brought up by players well above my rating.

So dont think it's just the "weak minded fools" stating this.
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85 Human Paladin
4435
You're weak minded for "quitting arenas" because of this, not for your opinion. This idea of the bottom dropping out is simply incorrect, The reason 2200 is hard in 2s isn't because there's no low rating players it's because the players who have rating don't queue. Inactivity at the top is the problem, not inactivity at the bottom.
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http://us.battle.net/wow/en/pvp/battlegrounds/

There's the RBG ladder.

As you said later in the season 2200 will be closer to 3.75%. PvE and PvP progress at different rates


Thats a very fair point about rates of progression. Having said that though, by the end of the season the PvE side will be higher still.

As far as the RBG ladder goes, I have no idea how many people participate in RBGs so couldn't do a percentage off it :(

Interestingly enough, on BL alone. about 950 people have T2 from RBGs (excluding those who have dropped rating).

If you compare that to 3s and 5s teams:

3s: 204 teams (612 player if you assume zero were carries)
5s: 20 teams (100 if you assume none are from 3s)

This gives you 712(max - more likely the 612 figure) that obtain T2 through 3s. Pretty comparable really.

On that note though, there are pages of 1 person teams above 2.2k...
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